Leaders

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Since we all seem to have very strong political opinions around here, I decided to open this. I searched to see if any one had done it yet and it seems it has not been done. The question, who was/is your favourite prime minister/president/leader of the 20th or 21st century? He/She can be from any country as long as they were the ruler/head of govermeant. Tell us who it is, and why they were/are so great. If you dont agree with someone else opinion, dont start a flame match! Maybe say why you dont like them, but in a cizilised way. If this is successful and dosnt get closed for any reason, it will be followed by Mk. II, the leader you hate the most. I have to say Nelson Mandella was a very good president and did much to change South Africa from its old ways.

[ralphwiggum 6]

i have several.

Abraham Lincoln: self-made man, honest abe. need i say more?

Ho Chi minh: sorry to my American fellas. but he led a very simple life and wanted what he thought was best for Vietnam, which was being free of external powers's influence.

Malcolm X: from bottom of society, he rose himself up. a bit harsh guy, but his zeal for better of his race is what I respect most about him.

Martin Luther King jr: never preached about violence as means. he truly stands out as an example to follow in terms of civil liberty protection.

Kim gu: a Korean liberation fighter/leader during Japanese occupation. was somewhat like Ho chi minh, but was more geared towards peaceful resolution.

[Placebo 28]

Even those I despise tories I would prolly have to say Winston Churchill is my fave Engish leader, some wonderful anecdotes about him, he also gave the occasional stirring speech during the late 30s - mid 40s

[Warin 0]

Wow...just one?

That's a tough one.

In a strange way, I think the most influential leader in many ways was Richard Nixon.

Why?

Because he brought to an end a lot of rather misplaced innocence when it comes to American politics. He didnt do anything that hadnt been done before. He just got caught at it. I think many Americans looked on the President as some sort of paragon of virtue... an attitude blatantly false in the case of some presidents (Kennedy). Nixon made people realize that the President was just as human as they were, and I think he brought a much needed cynicism to the way Americans look at their politicians.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

A toss up between Ho Chi Minh, Sun Tzu, and Teddy Roosevelt.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Ho Chi Minh rocked. He was so dedicated! Pity he didn;t live to see the end of the conflict. I was reading the other day that all throughout the bombing of North Vietnam, he lived in a wooden hut on stilts! If any of you choose Ronald Reagen, Maggy Thatcher or others like them, I may have to raise my eyebrows.

[Placebo 28]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 03 2002,09:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If any of you choose Ronald Reagen, Maggy Thatcher or others like them, I may have to raise my eyebrows.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually those two are vying with Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot and Mao in my most despised leader list

[Guest]

Reagan I admire because he really managed to screw over the Russians by making them try to follow the insane 'Star Wars' project, which broke them economically.

Maggy Thatcher... how can one not like her. She is soooo cool! When I grow up, I want to be just like her

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I am pretty much disgusted by all of them, unfortunately noone comes to my mind now.

[ran 0]

JACQUES CHIRAC

he's like some kind of comical actor , everytimes he can do a mistake he makes it , some of his words , some of his methods , his personnality and his wife are soooooooooooooooo funny lol

[Paratrooper 0]

Well Sun Tzu, wasn't a 20th century leader! Nor was he a leader of a country.

Of course Churchill. But also Thatcher. You might like to sound clever slagging her off, but she was a motivated patriotic, powerful leader. Her economic reforms may have been painful, but they were neccessary to the economic survival of this country. May I remind you but this is Thatcher's economy we enjoy today, we are now the 4th richest country in the world.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

Personally i quite like Stalin. He's honest, i doubt theres any politicians who give a fuck about their people, its just most of them fake it and hide it whenever they decide to fuck people over, Stalin didn't do that, if he wanted to stomp on people who were trying to fuck with him, he just had them killed in public. He spoke the truth about death. I see the civilised world acting like they give a shit whenever a fat yank called Bubba gets killed while in Singapore or wherever getting his rocks off with 4 year olds. The man just didn't sugar coat anything. I admire this. Obviously theres a bad side to Stalin, but i probably ''admire'' him more than any other leaders. I think Winston Churchill kicked ass as well, and Bill Clinton kicked ass too. Otherwise theres really no leaders who i really like/admire

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 03 2002,15:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personally i quite like Stalin. He's honest, i doubt theres any politicians who give a fuck about their people, its just most of them fake it and hide it whenever they decide to fuck people over, Stalin didn't do that, if he wanted to stomp on people who were trying to fuck with him, he just had them killed in public. He spoke the truth about death. I see the civilised world acting like they give a shit whenever a fat yank called Bubba gets killed while in Singapore or wherever getting his rocks off with 4 year olds. The man just didn't sugar coat anything. I admire this. Obviously theres a bad side to Stalin, but i probably ''admire'' him more than any other leaders. I think Winston Churchill kicked ass as well, and Bill Clinton kicked ass too. Otherwise theres really no leaders who i really like/admire<span id='postcolor'>

Oh yes, Stalin eas a great leader, and a first rate murderer of millions too!

As for most leaders not caring about their people; this is a popular but not very well considered veiw. The western politician can't be compared to an African dictator! They don't have much to gain form party politics other than supporting their party and trying to improve things.

[deadmoroz 0]

da, Stalin was the great leader.

Soviet people won WW2 with his help. Without Stalin it was impossible.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (deadmoroz @ Aug. 03 2002,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">da, Stalin was the great leader.

Soviet people won WW2 with his help. Without Stalin it was impossible.<span id='postcolor'>

You stupid...... Stalin killed more people than Hitler! His grave should no longer be on this particular spot where it is right now but thrown into a nuclear-oven. I feel like reading a post from the Tscheck government which still refuses to openly admit having committed ethnic cleansing with the sudeten-germans after WWII or a official letter by Neo-Nazis that say that the existance of Concentration camps were faked by the americans.  So damm silly. It appears like you havent really gone through the age of enlightment in russia, and historical education is still based on ideology rather than facts. Welcome you Proganda-Mutant!

Being the leader to successfully defend your country doesnt make you a man of honour!

[habdoel 0]

I would like to lead the revolution by ché guevara and Trotski to be the prime minister. But they are both daed so i'v got to do it myself. Thats why i play ofp.

I love leopold II for making brussels a nice city, make Belgium a big country with a colony (congo). I hate leopold II for what he did with the colony and for being a part of the ponarchy.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Remember, they had to be a leader of a country! Martin Luthen King never ruled America! Magret Thatcher achieved things, but at what cost? Stalin, he never really had any goals but to be super powerful, never any good ambitions.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 03 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember, they had to be a leader of a country! Martin Luthen King never ruled America! Magret Thatcher achieved things, but at what cost? Stalin, he never really had any goals but to be super powerful, never any good ambitions.<span id='postcolor'>

I am surprised noone mentioned him yet: Nelson Mandela

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 03 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember, they had to be a leader of a country! Martin Luthen King never ruled America! Magret Thatcher achieved things, but at what cost? Stalin, he never really had any goals but to be super powerful, never any good ambitions.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, Stalin dragged Russia kicking and screaming into the 20th century. He modernised the whole damn place.

Now..that doesnt excuse the fact that he killed more of his people doing it than Hitler did in all of WWII, including the concentration camps. He was truly evil... but to say that he had no good ambitions..well...the ambitions were good..the execution was horrific.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

I did mention Nelson Mandella! On my first post! hes there, and my reasons for choosing him. About Stalin. Did he modernize the USSR for the people, or for his own perosnal goals and for a power base? I think the last one may be the truth, but you be the judge! Im only 13.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

General Robert E. Lee. The man fought bravely for his country and led his man in to impossible odds. Lee cared for his country and his home land, Lincoln wanted power like the rest of the northern goverment at the time. Lee was fighting for American rights, Lee was fighting for what America was founded on. As for Nelson Mandela I do not know much about him, but South Africa aint in the greates of shape right now. It was America and the allies that helped Russia win WW2, by America helping Britian it helped Russia.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 03 2002,10:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Reagan I admire because he really managed to screw over the Russians by making them try to follow the insane 'Star Wars' project, which broke them economically.

Maggy Thatcher... how can one not like her. She is soooo cool! When I grow up, I want to be just like her <span id='postcolor'>

amazing...you admire same person as hardcore Republicans you despise of.....

and you liked Thatcher so much that you want to get transplant?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ Aug. 03 2002,15:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and Bill Clinton kicked ass too<span id='postcolor'>

yes...and nailed some too

To our British comrades...does Queen Victoria appeal to you? she wasn't a 'leader' per se, but she did uphold image of symbolic leader.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 03 2002,18:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 03 2002,10:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Reagan I admire because he really managed to screw over the Russians by making them try to follow the insane 'Star Wars' project, which broke them economically.

Maggy Thatcher... how can one not like her. She is soooo cool! When I grow up, I want to be just like her <span id='postcolor'>

amazing...you admire same person as hardcore Republicans you despise of.....

and you liked Thatcher so much that you want to get transplant?  <span id='postcolor'>

I was being sarcastic, but perhaps it didn't show

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 03 2002,18:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was being sarcastic, but perhaps it didn't show <span id='postcolor'>

<span style='font-size:19pt;line-height:100%'>D'OH!</span>

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Magret Thatcher achieved things, but at what cost? <span id='postcolor'> Would you care to share these terrible things she did?

Getting rid of the useless state industry and socialistic, monolithic organised labour wich was stifling the economy. We have employment down to less than a million, they found other work.