Questions on the m243 saw

[RedRogue 0]

I rarely ask something that I can look up for myself. But I was unable to find the weapon designation that the M243 is from. I've really gotten to like using it in Recon (America's Army) and was curious about its origins.

My other question is there a variant that is chambered for 7.62 Nato? If there is I would like to know from anyone that has perhaps used both calibers and what the difference is in controllability, reliability, use, and overall performance in their opinion.

[Guest]

Its supposed to be M249 SAW. Its original name is FN minimi.

The minimi is chambered for the standard 5,56 mm NATO round.

Swedish designation KSP-90. A decent weapon to shoot, but I always liked the KSP-58 or FN MAG (us designation M240B) that uses 7,62 mm ammo better.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedRogue @ July 28 2002,21:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My other question is there a variant that is chambered for 7.62 Nato? If there is I would like to know from anyone that has perhaps used both calibers and what the difference is in controllability, reliability, use, and overall performance in their opinion.<span id='postcolor'>

It's actually a scaled down FN-MAG, A 7.62mm GPMG that has been in service with several European countries for decades, but which is in the process of finally being adopted by the USMC to replace the M60.

[RedRogue 0]

I'll swear, no wonder I had so much trouble trying to look it up. I knew it was M249 but every time I typed it my mind kept saying M243 which is not a designation for anything if I remember.

I guess my next question would be better answered by someone currently in US Army service. I know the M249 is being fielded more for the M60 but is the M240b also being fielded as much or is the Army trying to go totally 5.56?

I had the pleasure/aggrivation of firing a M60 once (Familiy in the military has its perks). The only thing I really learned out of the experience was if you don't have the belt positioned just right it was almost guarenteed to jam. This one had a ovalish ring tacked to the side to help keep the belt positioned properly and I still managed to jam it 3 times.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Swedish designation KSP-90. A decent weapon to shoot, but I always liked the KSP-58 or FN MAG (us designation M240B) that uses 7,62 mm ammo better.

<span id='postcolor'>

Amen brother.....wow, I actually agree with Denoir on something!

I loves it! "True Happiness is a belt fed weapon." Me in Yukon TA, Ft. Wainwright, Alaska June 2001

[Aculaud 0]

Whats the recoil on that thing like?

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whats the recoil on that thing like?

<span id='postcolor'>

Very managable due to the fact that the recoil buffer is well designed and the weight of the gun. (28 lbs, ever had your feelings hurt by a terrain feature? Hump Alaska with this bitch.)

Personally, I think the weapon is pure genius. The brass is ejected through the bottom of the weapon, making fireable by left handed shooters.

[Aculaud 0]

So have you ever HAD to shoot right handed, or is uncle sam pretty sympathetic to that sort of thing?

[USSoldier11B 0]

Yes, when we still used the M-60 I had to fire it right handed. I also have to fire the AT-4 right handed because it's trigger system and side mounted precision reticle (not the flip up one) are designed for right handed personnel only.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Oh God, vegans and southpaws... God help us

[USSoldier11B 0]

I may be a lefty, but I sure as hell enjoy a bloody 20 oz prime rib.

[Aculaud 0]

And i may be vegan, but i'm a damn good shot..........in games

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ July 29 2002,18:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's actually a scaled down FN-MAG, A 7.62mm GPMG that has been in service with several European countries for decades, but which is in the process of finally being adopted by the USMC to replace the M60.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, we adopted the 240G variant back in late 1995 FWIW.

Semper Fi

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, we adopted the 240G variant back in late 1995 FWIW.

<span id='postcolor'>

True, true...when I went through basic in '99 it was already common place, it just takes a while to get thousands of weapons to units. We dumped our 60's around late '99. They still taught with the M-60 in basic for who knows what reason.....

[MDRZulu 0]

Is there anyway possible to borrow one from the army? Say you were on leave and wanted to take it home. Then you could go out in the woods and shoot whatever you want. Someone around where I live I have heard through rumors has an M-60 and I have heard something that might be one, just a ton of automatic fire that wasnt constant but it must have had a big magazine. It could have been a bunch of rednecks shooting at once for all I know and all guns I've shot/heard pretty much sound the same to me.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MDRZulu @ July 30 2002,06:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there anyway possible to borrow one from the army? Say you were on leave and wanted to take it home. Then you could go out in the woods and shoot whatever you want. Someone around where I live I have heard through rumors has an M-60 and I have heard something that might be one, just a ton of automatic fire that wasnt constant but it must have had a big magazine. It could have been a bunch of rednecks shooting at once for all I know and all guns I've shot/heard pretty much sound the same to me.<span id='postcolor'>

It's legal in some places to own a '60, I think.

There was a gun dealer in Alaska near where I lived for awhile that had one. He used to take it out oin the mud flats and for a 100 dollars would give you a lesson then let you blow off 100 rounds with it.

Weekend Rambo's

I've always wished that I'd gone out there and tried it...but I satisfied myself with plinking at a friends place with his .22 Ruger rifle, or my 30-30

[MDRZulu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I satisfied myself with plinking at a friends place with his .22 Ruger rifle, or my 30-30 <span id='postcolor'>

Hey whater works, I used to have to use a slingshot and rocks some years back.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ July 29 2002,09:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ July 29 2002,18:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's actually a scaled down FN-MAG, A 7.62mm GPMG that has been in service with several European countries for decades, but which is in the process of finally being adopted by the USMC to replace the M60.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, we adopted the 240G variant back in late 1995 FWIW.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

I stand corrected

[Lazarus_Long 0]

Personally I miss the old 60's.  I feel the M240B was more of a downgrade than a proper replacement for the M60.

Here's my gripe about the M240B:

The damn thing is so heavy and unbalanced that the only way to fire it is when you are prone.  Here in Florida where there's high grass everywhere, the 240 is completely useless unless it's in a defensive position where the field of fire has been thouroughly prepared. If we are doing a movement to contact, which is what my unit mainly does, the 240B is nothing but 27 lbs of dead weight.  I could easily bring the M60 up to my shoulder and fire over the grass for short controlled bursts wreaking havok on the OPFORS.  The M60 was an ideal light infantry weapon.  With the 240B I am forced to either hide and let the line squads go without proper supportive fire, or fire blindly into the bush in the approximate direction of the enemy which is just a waste of ammo.

With the 60 - Supressive fire? No problem sir! Bangbangbangbang.... /Enemy Dead

With the 240B - Supressive fire? Ok, hang on, let me get set up...../minute later/....uh wait, I can't see..... /your platoon is wiped out.

The 240B looks great when you're on the firing range.  On a tripod, it's the most accurate MG I have ever fired.  In the field, it's a piece of sh**.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Get stonger then you weenie!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lazarus_Long @ July 30 2002,09:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personally I miss the old 60's.  I feel the M240B was more of a downgrade than a proper replacement for the M60.

Here's my gripe about the M240B:

The damn thing is so heavy and unbalanced that the only way to fire it is when you are prone.  Here in Florida where there's high grass everywhere, the 240 is completely useless unless it's in a defensive position where the field of fire has been thouroughly prepared. If we are doing a movement to contact, which is what my unit mainly does, the 240B is nothing but 27 lbs of dead weight.  I could easily bring the M60 up to my shoulder and fire over the grass for short controlled bursts wreaking havok on the OPFORS.  The M60 was an ideal light infantry weapon.  With the 240B I am forced to either hide and let the line squads go without proper supportive fire, or fire blindly into the bush in the approximate direction of the enemy which is just a waste of ammo.

With the 60 - Supressive fire? No problem sir! Bangbangbangbang.... /Enemy Dead

With the 240B - Supressive fire? Ok, hang on, let me get set up...../minute later/....uh wait, I can't see..... /your platoon is wiped out.

The 240B looks great when you're on the firing range.  On a tripod, it's the most accurate MG I have ever fired.  In the field, it's a piece of sh**.<span id='postcolor'>

I couldn't disagree more. You can't blame the lack of proper training on the machine gun. Setting up a propers position should take no time at all for a well trained machine gunner and a loader.

As opposed to the M60 the FN Mag is a reliable weapon which doesn't jam. It is also much more robust and solid. It has better and easily adjustable rate of fire and is way more accurate. Not to say that it is much more fun to shoot

My only complaints about the weapon is

* weight

* many movable parts (hard to clean)

* gets very dirty

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 30 2002,02:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

My only complaints about the weapon is

* weight

* many movable parts (hard to clean)

* gets very dirty<span id='postcolor'>

Weren't those the same problems you had with another FN-produced weapon, the Browning Hi-Power? I see a pattern!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ July 30 2002,19:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 30 2002,02:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

My only complaints about the weapon is

* weight

* many movable parts (hard to clean)

* gets very dirty<span id='postcolor'>

Weren't those the same problems you had with another FN-produced weapon, the Browning Hi-Power? I see a pattern!  <span id='postcolor'>

The Browning Hi-Power is a nice gun. I would never complain!

......except of course it is a bit too heavy.... and has too many movable parts... and gets very dirty

[Lazarus_Long 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I couldn't disagree more. You can't blame the lack of proper training on the machine gun. Setting up a propers position should take no time at all for a well trained machine gunner and a loader.

<span id='postcolor'>

I am very offended by this remark.  What part of my post gave you the impression that I lack proper training on the M240B?  Who the hell are you to say what my abilities are? I was simply stating some shortcomings of the M240B that I've noticed from my own experience and then here you come and flame me for it.  Very childish Denoir, I've been a gunner now for the last three years. Last year me and my assistant gunner took 1st place in the batalion Top Gun competition,  we managed to dissasemble and re-assemble and do a function check in 50 seconds flat.  I can set up a full fighting position in my sleep.  Don't tell me I lack proper training!  

Denoir, with your vast expertise in jungle warfare /sarcasm, you should know that once you go prone, 99% of the time, the brush is too thick for you to see anything.  It's all about popping up, fire, get back down.  If you are caught in an ambush, or are attacking an enemy strong point, you don't care about setting up a proper position.  You want to lay down some supportive fire - Quickly, then move.   The M240B is way too top heavy to be able to bring it up to your shoulder.  I don't care if you are Arnold freaking Swartznegger, it's impossible to do this.  It was not designed to do this.  It's tough do bring it up even with the 60, but at least it was possible.  

I'm sure you Swedes like it, I don't doubt it at all.  Of course the only brush you have to put up with are pine trees and a few rocks, so firing from the prone makes perfect sense for you.

One thing I do like about the 240 is the fact that it has a dust cover where the brass spews out.  There's nothing like getting out of a Black Hawk and have the rotor wash get sand all up in your weapon.  I hated this with the 60.  As far as cleaning goes, I don't care.  Sure the 240 has that annoying gas regulator that has to be scraped clean just like the SAW, but it's not too bad.

Again: the 240B on the range is great.  It makes any gunner look good.  In the field (at least here) it's dead weight.

[Major Fubar 0]

Denoir sez your skillz aren't L337