Dynamic Take And Secure - Randomized Round-Based No-Respawn A&D

[samogon 10]

Hello GalZohar.

Your mission is popular on arma3.ru sever.

At evening there is around 40 man online playing them.But we edit them cause lot of snipers camping makes defence gameplay into hunting campers gameplay.It will be never shared,but also we must tell you.But the best here is dynamic side change and dynamic point change.This is good base for another kind of missions - like 2 equal sided attack undefended point and try to capture them(Like "King of the hill").

The general changes:

1)Default weapon loadouts.MX+EBR(Only one exeption,cause 7.62) series vs Katiba+mk200.

2)Attack have no AT,cause unnesesary.

3)Riflemans have optic,both sides,all rest - holosights/reddots(Cause future stuff).

4)Added C4 charge for defence Sabouter.

5)Balanced sniper - now they have less ammo.

6)Added Mortar for defence.To deploy - you need 2 diffirent classes with mortar tube and tripod.Armed with TRG-20 untill PDW/SMG cames with Beta.

What also been suggested - limitation for snipers,cause lot of them ruin gameplay.

More variations of attack/defence.Like Red Attack Blue Defend by the option in game menu.Or even better = {1round Blue attack/Red defend, 2 swap, 3Red attack/Blue defend 4 swap, 5 GOTO 1.}.Classes same,uniform,weapons and vehicles changes.

Addition of some armed vehicles.

[samogon 10]

Oh yeah almost forgot - weather options must be enhanced IMO.Like fog rain and others.

[galzohar 31]

@samogon:

I have considered equal missions in the past, but in my opinion they do not work very well because nobody has motivation to attack.

In DTAS attackers must attack and defenders must defend. Time limit forces attackers to attack. Objective capture forces defenders to defend. This can only work in an asymmetric game mode. In a symmetric game mode you cannot force any side to attack and thus both sides will camp. DTAS takes into consideration the big advantage of defenders (in symmetric game everyone will try to "defend", or camp, whenever they can). Defenders have weaker equipment to compensate, and of course side changing makes it balanced even in case defenders still have an advantage. Currently defenders still win most of the time, and only the side changing balances this. In the future I want to make defenders have even more disadvantage in equipment, to give attackers a better chance to win. Currently balancing equipment more is impossible due to lack of low-tech equipment (for example AK-47s, einfields).

If you have problems with snipers, you need to defend more. Defense does not need to find the attackers. They only need to defend. Time limit guarantees attackers will attack you. If attackers camp with sniper on hill they will lose because they will not capture the objective. This is also why it is very important to keep time limit low (11 minutes by default), or else attackers have lots of time to camp and everyone (both defense and attack) get bored.

When it comes to equipment, I try to add as much variety as possible, but only when it can give attackers an advantage and defenders a disadvantage. This is why adding kits to attackers is usually not a problem, but giving defenders more kits can be a problem as they win enough already. This is why saboteur has only 1 mine and why I wouldn't give defenders a mortar.

The latest edit you have on your server is using an older DTAS version - You might want to try the new one with the adjusted kits before editing it again. Also the latest version has some fixes like clearing vehicle cargo.

Iran attacking vs US is possible to implement, but is a lot of work for too little benefit. Also will cause a lot of teamkills because people now remember that Iran defend. In the future, when we have more factions, uniforms will be re-assigned to better suit the concept of DTAS (defenders = poorly armed terrorists, attackers = technologically advanced army).

If you think snipers are too strong, I can give them less ammo and change their vest back to bandollier (weaker protection). However, I think if defenders stay in defense they will be fine. It is difficult to attack in close range with bolt action sniper rifle, and you must go in close range to clear and capture the objective. If defenders play as defenders and don't try to attack, they will have a much easier time vs the snipers. Fact is defenders win most of the time anyway, and not everyone pick sniper kit, so I don't think there is a problem.

Weather is possible, however it is low priority since weather is already problematic in ArmA as it does not synchronize properly in multiplayer and thus can be unfair in PvP. Especially fog has random variation over time which is not synchronized and thus can let someone see you while you cannot see him because you have more fog than him at that specific moment (because it changes randomly and not synchronized). I will try find the time to add this as a parameter, but I am currently working on more important features.

Current WIP report:

Squad management system is in-game and working (mostly, still need to figure out some possible bugs). Now need to implement separate insertion method and position for every squad. In next version you will be able to join a squad with your friends and choose your insertion position independently. For example you might want to come with a helicopter from the south, while another group might come with a jeep from the north. Squad size will be unlimited and you will have enough vehicles.

You can leave and join squads at any time, as well as kick players from your squad, promote another squad member to squad leader and lock your squad. Also, your squad members and leader will have special colors on the map, and your squad will have your squad leader's name in the in-game chat.

Still need to decide what to do with players who do not have enough squad members (as I do not want people to be allowed to take a vehicle alone). In the end either people with no squad will be forced to walk, be placed into the cargo of vehicles from other squads that have space, or not be allowed to play at all. A parameter might be included to choose between different options - If I have the time to implement more than 1 option.

Not allowing them to play might be harsh, but it will also allow to enforce some teamwork, as you can kick bad team players from your squad, and if they get kicked from all squads they will not be allowed to play at all. On the other hand, it never really worked in other game modes, as no-teamwork players just form up their own squad... In the end the most likely solution will be placing them into free places of other vehicles or spawning them at the default spawn position.

For defenders, there is no effect currently planned for squads other than map markers. Of course, if anyone has any idea of how squads can do something for defense, feel free to suggest it.

I hope to get it done in 1-2 weeks, but my time is limited and this feature is a LOT of work to make it work. Not to mention fix all bugs that will arise.

Edited June 13, 2013 by galzohar

[samogon 10]

@GalZohar.We're not talking about equal sides.Defenders have defending classes,attackers - attacking classes.They just was ajusted to create each class usefull(Rifleman was useless,now pretty usefull).

Idea to enhance opfor was after creation some forest/Hill points.BLUFOR there have 90% chance to win.

The Mortar - they have medium efficiency cuz shell flying from 10sec to 30sec.For moving targets - almost useless... if youre not lucky guy.

The conception cool,but IMO not for public PvP.And IRL usually they are unfair.Like hi-end chopper killing weak armed rebels.

Edited June 14, 2013 by samogon

[galzohar 31]

Forest/hill capture points are just no fun in ArmA. For the same reason it is no fun to place the objective out in an open field. It's not impossible to give attackers a better advantage, but it is very important to do it without taking the fun out of the game. It is possible to change where the objective can spawn, but in my experience playing in areas that are too "open" (no buildings for cover) is just not enjoyable, as was apparent when playing on Takistan and Duala in ArmA 2 back when the objective could still spawn anywhere on the island.

RL is unfair, yes, but in-game you have to balance things out, while trying to keep realism to a maximum. So giving poor equipment for defenders and good equipment for attackers is very good, but if you give attackers too much the game stops being fun too (for example if you give attackers attack chopper or a tank that can easily kill everything, then the game is no longer fun even if in the end the groups will get an equal chance to win as a result).

Placing the objective in an area where the defenders have nothing to hide will simply ruin the game, no matter how you distribute weapons for both teams. I'm saying this from experience, as the very first versions of DTAS which we played a lot in ArmA 2 could spawn the objective anywhere and both teams could pick any weapon they want, but fighting on terrains that do not have enough cover just wasn't fun, and we ended up improving DTAS and playing only on Zargabad with asymmetric weapons (which was much better in ArmA 2, especially with the toys from ACE mod).

Therefore, the goal is to keep objectives in interesting places so the game isn't boring, and then giving defenders poor weapons to force them to use "guerrilla" tactics. The game is made in a way that will force the public players to learn to play this way - If an attacker does not attack, he will camp for 11 minutes, kill nothing, and lose. If a defender does not defend, he will get sniped or have the enemy capture the objective while he didn't get to kill anything. Maybe people are too stupid to learn this simple concept, but I think it shouldn't be that difficult to understand even for public players. All you need to do is remember that defenders win when the time runs out, and take it into consideration when you decide how to attack/defend.

Rifleman class for attackers is a problem, yes, as currently his only advantage is more hand grenades. If I give him more hand grenades, though, he will become a nade spammer, so the option is either to keep him as it is or remove the class completely. However, rifleman on defense is very useful, simply because 3 hand grenades is quite good compared to the other weak defender classes (spec-ops with only 1 grenade but with kobra sight, grenadier with 4 GL nades but no hand grenades, saboteur with no grenades but 1 mine, and RPG with no grenades but 1 RPG rocket). On attack, other than rifleman, I think all classes are quite useful - Even AT class now that he has 2 NLAW rockets (with 1 rocket he was too weak yes). Sniper might be too strong but since attackers must attack and sniper rifle is bad in short range, it might still be OK. We'll need to see.

What do you think about the squad system? I think it will really help in public game situations and even just for giving the attackers more options.

Edited June 14, 2013 by galzohar

[galzohar 31]

Experimental version with group management system. Still not fully tested, but feel free to give it a go and report bugs:

(link removed, fixed version released in first post)

Please save older version, as this experimental version might still have some serious bugs.

Edited June 15, 2013 by galzohar

[galzohar 31]

Version 1.02:

- Added group management system, with separate insertion method and position for each group. Minimum group size is 1/3 of the total player count or 3, whichever is smaller. Groups that are too small will spawn together at the default position inside of jeeps.

- Slightly adjusted equipment.

- Slightly improved UI.

- Hopefully fixed some rare bugs.

[galzohar 31]

Hotfix 1.02a:

- Fixed "missing ;" error in promote script.

[galzohar 31]

Hotfix 1.02b:

- Fixed group leader check to work reliably (should fix some/all marker problems and hopefully some more issues).

- Restored marker alpha for players not driving a vehicle, so that the driver's name is always read-able.

- Fixed bug with kick/promote actions.

- Slightly adjusted objective randomization.

[samogon 10]

How about much more advanced weather?Like ajust fog,rain,clouds.

and create medic slots instead riflemans.Then medikits should be workable.

Also - Beta coming,how about some armed vehicles?

Edited June 21, 2013 by samogon

[galzohar 31]

Weather will come when I have the time to do it. Sorry, but there are more important features and fixes that I still need to get done first. I will get to add weather parameters eventually.

Regarding vehicles, first I will need to fully test them to understand exactly how they work, and then decide which vehicles to include and how without hurting the balance (and hopefully improving the balance). In any case, vehicles with automatic weapons firing explosive ammunition will most likely not be included, as those always end up being the end-all-be-all when it comes to PvP battles, and you either win the battle by killing everything with them or lose the battle by making a mistake and losing the vehicle. In the end I still want to encourage CQB, so vehicles that will become a too strong encouragement for not going into CQB will be avoided. I also want to avoid vehicles that will be desired by everyone and need to be limited (currently, all weapons and vehicles in DTAS are balanced so that they do not need to be limited).

[turin turambar 0]

Are you playing the mission in some specific servers, galzohar?

[galzohar 31]

Currently mostly on ArmA3.RU server during evenings (European time zone), and mostly during weekends (Thursdays/Fridays/Saturdays). We used to have the ArmA-IL PvP server running it, however it is currently down. Might bring it back in the near future. But anyway ArmA3.RU can get over 40-50 players at times. Keep in mind though that it often runs a modified version (mostly improved equipment for defenders, making it even harder for attackers to win a round).

[7DAP 10]

We look forward to the possibility of changing weather. Especially dense fog. Also still a lot of points in the city and the airport. Perhaps we should more often use other areas of the island? Sorry for My English.

[galzohar 31]

The chance is based on the area size, so every point has equal chance (so a given 10x10 square inside of the airfield has the same chance to be used as a 10x10 square in air station or whatever). Of course, a 100x100 area will have 100 times the chance. In the end I think this system is best for variety, as it means every building (which is inside one of the possible objective areas) has about the same chance to be included in the capture zone. If I wouldn't spawn the objective area in a uniform fashion (equal chance per square meter), then you will quickly notice some areas are used too often.

Last version slightly increased the sizes of the other areas. But they are still small. If I increase their size much more than they will include areas that are not suitable/enjoyable - At least not when it comes to PVP. Agia Marina and the airfield are used most often because they have the most areas that are suitable, and of course each square meter has the same chance to be used.

[galzohar 31]

Fog is now working. Will be included in next version. Clouds are bugged - I have used a work-around and need to do some MP testing to make sure it doesn't break other elements of the game. Plus there are some more features I am working on for next version: Invite new members to locked squad, AFK-killing, and some more testing to make sure I squashed the annoying bugs.

By the time I finish those, beta will be out, so next version will probably have both these updates and some of the new stuff that will be added in the beta (assuming they enhance the mission).

[7DAP 10]

Excellent news. Beta came out, now waiting for an updated mission.

[galzohar 31]

Version 1.03:

- Fixed class names for weapons and vehicles to fit with Beta Version 0.7.

- Replaced most defender weapons to 5.56 and replaced uniform to competitor with boonie hat. Anyone who kills teammates can now be safely banned :)

- Added submarine insertion.

- Added machinegunner (7.62 caliber) to attackers.

- Added AFK killing script (default 120 seconds, can be adjusted by admin). A 10 second warning is issued before player is killed. Only affects players who do not rotate their soldier nor move around at all. Any movement and/or rotation of the player will reset the timer.

- Added clouds and fog setting (can be adjusted by admin, default is 0 for both).

- Fixed issue with joining groups with players who have '<' or '>' in their name.

- Adjusted action menu join color.

- Hopefully finally fixed unit marker script bugs.

Mission description and download link updated.

Edited June 25, 2013 by galzohar

[galzohar 31]

Hotfix 1.03a:

- Fixed defender grenadier weapon class name.

[galzohar 31]

Hotfix 1.03b:

- Fixed bug with group system.

- Changed defenders back to brown camo with funny helmets, but kept 5.56 weapons to maintain balance (giving attackers better equipment than defenders), as the yellow t-shirts were not fit enough for the "guerrilla" style the defenders are supposed to be playing.

[rome 0]

You have a new fan galzohar.

I sometimes feel like i'm playing the Infiltration mod version 100000000.2. Thank you for that.

That is brilliant.

Some ideas/suggestions :

1-A heli insertion (we, attackers, all spawn in one big unarmed transport heli, and the leader decide where we will be dropped.)

2-Maybe we could all paradrop in one or two zone defined by the leader on the map. this would have to be at a set distance from the objective of course.

3-Presence of a few civilians to put some pressure on both sides. If too many are killed by one side they lose the round. That would force to check fire and reduce grenade spam, or any sort of spam actually.

Thats it at the moment.

Love you

Rome

[galzohar 31]

Thanks RoMe!

You already have the choice (as group leader, assuming you have a big enough group) to choose between jeeps, boats, submarine or littlebirds. Enough vehicles will spawn to carry your squad.

Parachutes are currently buggy, and not very effective in PvP anyway.

Civilians, while interesting, will probably cause more harm than good (both performance and gameplay-wise).

[Claus 10]

Excellent mission galzohar!

We've played it with my community. Had a good laugh about the yellow T-shirts and are now happy that you've included RedFor uniforms :)

Had only one bug in a 3 hour session and that was a Jeep exploding 10 seconds after spawn.

The mission was such a hit, and a lot of extra people are joining the next couple of weeks, that our minds were wandering on the subject of scale. In your view, do you think this mission would stay fun up to 50v50? Would you mind if we edited in another zone or two to fight over?

Edited July 21, 2013 by Claus

[galzohar 31]

Do what you wish. Though the mission already includes all areas that I found were reasonable for PVP play. Keep in mind that an equal chance is given to any possible location inside of the allowed areas, and thus larger areas will be selected more often (as they have more possibilities and each possibility has the same chance). If you play enough you will find yourself also playing at some very remote places - It just won't happen often as there aren't many of them that are actually good, and those that are good have a very small area where placing an objective would be reasoanble. That said, if you use AllInArma, you can play in Zargabad as well, however the recoil bug in AllInArma can kind of ruin a PvP match.

As for larger scale, I think the highest on ArmA3.RU was 50~60 players or so, and it worked great. Depending on how you want the mission to play out, you might need to tweak the time limit, though honestly I prefer to keep it low to force attackers to push forward and use their equipment advantage, rather than let defenders get bored for 10-15 minutes before they actually arrive.

The spawn distances are already pretty far - They're as short as I could have made them without risking attackers spawning within the defenders' line of sight (and vise-versa).

As for jeep exploding, that is indeed rare, as there is a script that makes everything invulnerable for the first 30 seconds of the round, so some serious lag probably had to take part into bugging this script out. Unfortunately, safe spawning of vehicles is just not possible due to issues/bugs with the ArmA 3 scripting commands that are supposed to be used for finding a safe spawning position.

Also, I've noticed some bugs with the group system (mostly someone joining and seeing "error - no unit" instead of group leader name), and it was very difficult to try fix as I don't know how to reproduce it, so if you find something that will reproduce it 100% of the time (or at least with a high chance), then it should be very easy to fix.

[galzohar 31]

Version 1.04:

- Added 1st person spectator camera while players are waiting for next round to start.

- Fixed bugs with group system.

- Fixed bugs with marker system.

- Fixed bug with "Un-Stuck" action.

- Updated briefing.

- Added script that notifies the player in case the pre-init script failed to run (due to BIS bug) and he must re-load the mission.

- Added server parameter option for improved defender gear, including better weapons, optics, vests and new kits (marksman, mortar gunner and mortar assistant). Be aware that using this option might result in defenders winning most of the rounds, as they already have a significant "defender's advantage" even with "standard" gear.

First post updated.