TOH: Hinds - possible buyer has some doubts & appreciate your help

[Boresight 1]

Hello everyone,

I'm a long time jet / heli flight sim enthusiast, so after knowing about TOH: Hinds, I begun reading about it.

Things like complex targeting / acquisition procedures really are my thing. Although I've tried DCS Black Shark, and those fetures were very well depicted, the Ka-50 heli doesn't amaze me as the Mi-24.

So, upon reading about:

- poor depiction on Pilot’s HUD sights (non collimated HUD bore cross);

- AI Pilot doesn’t maintain hovering when player is the Gunner;

My doubts about the TOH Hinds are:

1 - do you think the Gunner aiming sights / FLIR screen / whatever involves targeting, aiming, etc. is reasonably well depicted?

2 - is it possible to play the entire missions as Gunner?

3 - is the flexible canon sights/cursor shown around the Gunner’s cockpit, or in the FLIR screen/MFD?

4 - are radio guided missile moving sights, projected at some kind of Gunners HUD or also at the FLIR screen/MFD ?

5 - how does one slew/move the flexible canon to target – arrow keys or mouse?

Not intended to be bothering anyone, just trying to understand if I’m going to buy this or not.

Thank you a lot for your attention.

[JohnKalo 657]

Do not get too excited with my reply since I do not have take on helicopters hinds. This is because I have to pay and download it online since there is no CD available but that is not our issue.

As I have been generally informed there is no other company which can simulate helicopter flight so spectacularly. I mean even with take on helicopters rearmed which I have purchased the simulated flight experience is astonishing. The controls, the controlling, the wind and weather effects, the sounds, the gun effects, the explosions, the AI everything is very well depicted. Flight simulator X for example can not possibly stand in the way since it is not meant to be a helicopter simulator. I have personally tried both and my decision didn't need much time to arise. I believe that you could try take on helicopters rearmed and if you are excited with it then you can additionally buy the Hinds version.

Hope I helped in a way.

I hope more replies by Hinds players come.

Good Luck with your choices!

[max power 21]

My doubts about the TOH Hinds are:

1 - do you think the Gunner aiming sights / FLIR screen / whatever involves targeting, aiming, etc. is reasonably well depicted?

The missiles are saclos guided but the actual systems aren't depicted. You guide the missiles with an approximation of saclos guidance in general.

2 - is it possible to play the entire missions as Gunner?

Yes.

3 - is the flexible canon sights/cursor shown around the Gunner’s cockpit, or in the FLIR screen/MFD?

AFAIK, the guns are sighted using an optical telescope. You use them by pressing the optics button on the keyboard, which fills your screen with the view from the telescope. There are MFD screens with FLIR in the Superhind.

4 - are radio guided missile moving sights, projected at some kind of Gunners HUD or also at the FLIR screen/MFD ?

They are also guided using the telescope. The missiles seek to be in the centre of the crosshairs.

5 - how does one slew/move the flexible canon to target – arrow keys or mouse?

Mouse by default. You can set it up to use any controller or key (combination) you like.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Max Power

[Boresight 1]

Do not get too excited with my reply since I do not have take on helicopters hinds. This is because I have to pay and download it online since there is no CD available but that is not our issue.

As I have been generally informed there is no other company which can simulate helicopter flight so spectacularly. I mean even with take on helicopters rearmed which I have purchased the simulated flight experience is astonishing. The controls, the controlling, the wind and weather effects, the sounds, the gun effects, the explosions, the AI everything is very well depicted. Flight simulator X for example can not possibly stand in the way since it is not meant to be a helicopter simulator. I have personally tried both and my decision didn't need much time to arise. I believe that you could try take on helicopters rearmed and if you are excited with it then you can additionally buy the Hinds version.

Hope I helped in a way.

I hope more replies by Hinds players come.

Good Luck with your choices!

Thank you Helicopterenthusiast,

I appreciate your recomendations regarding "helicopters rearmed", however I'm more inclined to the Hind model.

And I'm trying to understand how the weapons features are depicted, as the weapons / targeting procedures really are what amazes me.

Thank you for your attention!

[Boresight 1]

Max Power,

You really said it all !

Thank you a lot! As at SimHQ forums it was becoming difficult to get an actual answer a first, much less as detailed as yours.

Ok, from your answers, regarding my personal preferences on this games / sims, it really looks very good to me.

So, from several reviews people say that; when on Gunner seat it's not easy / possible to hover the Hind?

At the SimHQ it's mentioned that the Gunner MFD screen lack's the crosshairs?

Why is it so difficult to shot down enemy helicopters - isn't it easy to keep the gun or SACLOS missile sights at them?

Thank you for your attention.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:28 ----------

Helicopterenthusiast,

Thank you for your prompt reply, I've already answered at first time to you, however I got a message of something, like awaiting moderator authorization or so to be posted.

Regarding "Helicopters rearmed", I'm more inclined to the Hind, but thank you anyway!

[max power 21]

Max Power,

You really said it all !

Thank you a lot! As at SimHQ forums it was becoming difficult to get an actual answer a first, much less as detailed as yours.

Ok, from your answers, regarding my personal preferences on this games / sims, it really looks very good to me.

So, from several reviews people say that; when on Gunner seat it's not easy / possible to hover the Hind?

I've never flown from the gunner's seat but I wonder why it would be more difficult than when in the pilot's seat. The hind itself is quite unstable in the cover to begin with, so it's not the easiest machine to fly in that condition.

At the SimHQ it's mentioned that the Gunner MFD screen lack's the crosshairs?

That could be. Aiming with the MFD would be very awkward, though. Using the optics view would be better, and would give you better performance.

Why is it so difficult to shot down enemy helicopters - isn't it easy to keep the gun or SACLOS missile sights at them?

No. The missiles are too slow. There are a few supersonic AT missiles with limited anti air capability but AFAIK they are laserbeam riding. The vihkr in particular has several air to air modes for different conditions, the premise being that shooting an aircraft that's approaching is much different for missiles than when they are flying sideways or flying away.

[Boresight 1]

From what you’re telling, TOH Hinds doesn’t look so much “dumbed down†as some people’s reviews make it look like.

( Sure, I know it’s by no means at the DCS Black Shark level of accuracy on weapons deployment and several other categories, but it doesn’t look like some 100% arcade type game either. )

More people have pointed me to “EECH Hindsâ€, however I’ve read that in here’s not possible to play on the Gunner’s seat.. so it’s a ‘no go’ for me.

So I have just one more question:

Does ARMA II Mi-24 Hind have anything more than TOH: Hinds in the weapons / aiming / targeting features; optical scopes / gun sights / HUD /MFD department?

[max power 21]

Just to be clear, the vikr in TOH (if there is one) doesn't have those modes. I just meant that AT missiles IRL usually have to be pretty special to be used on aircraft.

The hind in TOH has more weapons and better missile targeting simulation than arma 2, unless they modded the TOH system back into arma 2 recently. Arma 2 doesn't have PIP, so no MFDs, and the flight model is nowhere near as complex.

[Boresight 1]

Just to be clear, the vikr in TOH (if there is one) doesn't have those modes. I just meant that AT missiles IRL usually have to be pretty special to be used on aircraft.

The hind in TOH has more weapons and better missile targeting simulation than arma 2, unless they modded the TOH system back into arma 2 recently. Arma 2 doesn't have PIP, so no MFDs, and the flight model is nowhere near as complex.

Hello again,

Some personal issues prevented me from reading this post sooner.

But glad to know that TOH has better missile targeting simulation, because to me, that's the heart of a jet / helicopter / tank etc. simulator.

And hope they don't modded it to a more simple version... because arcade isn't bad at all, but isn't the "top" also.

I bellieve I'll buy it soon and then post my experience here.

Hope everything goes ok with the base version TOH and TOH Hinds downloads...

Thank you a lot for your straightforward answers, as they really were what I wanted to know!

[max power 21]

Well, when I say missile targetting I mean saclos. The rest of it is just like arma 2 afaik.

No problem. The hind is interesting to fly in this game and presents many unique challenges.

[Boresight 1]

By the way, does anyone know if - is the problem with the TOH Hinds installation solved?

As stated at the TROUBLESHOOTING Forum :

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?132527-Installation-Problem-With-Take-on-Helicopter-HIND!

Edited March 28, 2013 by Boresight

[max power 21]

It's hard to understand what the problem is. Surely not every copy fails to install. If you're worried about it and you're thinking of getting it from the Bohemia store, I would suggest contacting Placebo to get more information.

[Boresight 1]

Yes, it's my intention to get it from the Bohemia store.

Ok I will try to contact him, in order to see what's needed to get everything going smooth.

Thank you.

[Boresight 1]

Hello,

I've bought TOHelicopters and TOH Hinds Bundle. Already downloaded them from "sprocket".

I understand there are patches which should be installed.

Where can I find them, and in which order should I install everything?

Thank you.