Customizing - How far will it go??

[TurboTom 1]

Hey guys.. I'm curious to know as to what extent this new customization feature they're bringing in will extend to?? Are we talking full loadouts including camo, plate carriers, ballistics, boots, holsters, and helmets?? I'm also rather curious on whether or not Bohemia is going to include any flip-to-side options for the weaponry. Any information would be great. :)

[Maio 293]

As of now we have the ability to change: Headgear (helmets,caps,berets), vests (load baring, bandouliers),backpacks and camouflage. The list is not final since the game is still in Alpha.

BTW:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119512-Arma-3-Confirmed-features-info-amp-discussion :)

[antoineflemming 14]

As of now we have the ability to change: Headgear (helmets,caps,berets), vests (load baring, bandouliers),backpacks and camouflage. The list is not final since the game is still in Alpha.

BTW:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119512-Arma-3-Confirmed-features-info-amp-discussion :)

Add gloves to that list:

As you can clearly see, the gloves are not tied to the uniform. In the first pic, the character is in underwear, no gloves. In the second, the character has no uniform top on, but still has gloves. In the third, you can see the separately modeled gloves. Safe to assume we will be able to customize gloves. All this game needs is a dynamic customization of the character's face and body, and a GRFS Gunsmith-like customization for weapons, and this game would have the best customization of any game out there.

[mr. bravo 17]

Dynamic customization for characters face and body sounds a bit extreme for an ArmA-game :p But they must have done something with the "face"-textures, as they now finally cover a lot more skin (Whole arms and legs), compared to the current "face"-textures in A2 that has to be stretched for this to be possible. Maybe even the shirt and boxers are included.

Anyways, on topic I really hope this new gear-system will be good enough for the ACE-team to consider expanding even further. It will save a LOT of work and time when working on new soldiers and gear, not having to create and rigg a billion separate soldiers for different roles and variation. I'm really glad BIS took the time to give something like this a real chance.

I'm also curious about how it's working technically. My mod-team has a few theories I'm not too fond of (I HATE messy p3d-files), so I'm hoping it's something more evolutionary and hardcoded.

[antoineflemming 14]

Dynamic customization for characters face and body sounds a bit extreme for an ArmA-game :p But they must have done something with the "face"-textures, as they now finally cover a lot more skin (Whole arms and legs), compared to the current "face"-textures in A2 that has to be stretched for this to be possible. Maybe even the shirt and boxers are included.

Anyways, on topic I really hope this new gear-system will be good enough for the ACE-team to consider expanding even further. It will save a LOT of work and time when working on new soldiers and gear, not having to create and rigg a billion separate soldiers for different roles and variation. I'm really glad BIS took the time to give something like this a real chance.

I'm also curious about how it's working technically. My mod-team has a few theories I'm not too fond of (I HATE messy p3d-files), so I'm hoping it's something more evolutionary and hardcoded.

Oh I know. The amount of stuff you can customize attests to the fact that ArmA3 has more realistic customization than most games. If it had those advanced customization systems (dynamic face, body customization and the extreme Gunsmith weapon customization), then ArmA3's customization system would be absolutely the best, covering all angles. But, with what ArmA3 has now, it's really good. It's more than what people could have asked for. It was definitely a compliment to ArmA3's customization. I just hope it's as easy to make new body armor or helmets as it is to make new glasses in ArmA2.

Oh, and maionaze, make sure you add shirt and pants as separate customizable uniforms.

So, what is that now:

Face

Voice

Shirt

Pants

Gloves

Body Armor

Backpack

Headgear

Headgear attachments (i.e. NVGs)

Eyewear

Camo? (separate from shirt and pants?)

[AlexVestin 24]

Still, the only confirmed customization is vest and helmet and optics on your rifle?

I've heard nothing about being able to change, pants, shirt, gloves, camo, helmet attachments.

Face and eyewear and voice pitch have been customizable all through the ArmA/OFP series, but nothing has still been mentioned now as far as I know.

Too much people here just saying it's confirmed or jumping to conclusions with no real evidence or DEV quotes to back it up.

[Maio 293]

Still, the only confirmed customization is vest and helmet and optics on your rifle?

I've heard nothing about being able to change, pants, shirt, gloves, camo, helmet attachments.

Face and eyewear and voice pitch have been customizable all through the ArmA/OFP series, but nothing has still been mentioned now as far as I know.

Too much people here just saying it's confirmed or jumping to conclusions with no real evidence or DEV quotes to back it up.

We will be able to customize the following:

Soliders:

Headgear ( helmets,caps,etc) - which will affect ballistic protection

Torso wear ( vest, bandoliers) - which will affect ballistic protection

Combat fatigues - if we will be able to change individual parts, we still do not know. It might be that we will get one piece sets, as in T-shirt+pants and long sleeve+pants

Camouflage pattern of the combat fatigues

Backpacks - which will allow us to carry more or less gear which will have an impact on out speed and stamina

Eye wear/protection ( we still do not know if these will be in game items this time around)

Weapons:

Optics

Barrel attachments ( silencers, flash hiders)

Side rail attachments ( flashlights, IR pointers)

Not confirmed, but showcased : under barrel

Vehicles:

Vehicles will be modular and support different enhancements ( ERA armor, remote weapon stations, IR sensor balls)

Source: Devs and screenshots

[antoineflemming 14]

Screenshots are the source. There are images that show:

Just underwear.

Underwear with pants, body armor, gloves, helmet

Shirt and pants, no body armor, no helmet

full gear

different helmets

helmet no eyewear

helmets with eyewear

helmet with eyewear and nvgs

different faces

full gear and backpacks

berets

The ONLY thing we haven't seen is camo changes. And that's arguable at that. There's an OPFOR screen that possibly shows a different camo pattern.

The devs don't need to confirm every little thing in paragraphs of info. Sometimes their images serve as confirmations. Everything I said, minus the camo, is basically confirmed via official released images.

@maionaze: I doubt we will get the following one set pieces (everything we've seen from screens)

underwear

undershirt + pants - gloves

undershirt + pants + gloves

shirt + pants - gloves

shirt + pants + gloves

besides, what's the point in having undershirt + underwear as a basic male model? Why not just only have undershirt + pants of some kind?

And what's the point of having an image of the glove model if it's just going to be included in a one-set piece?

Edited April 20, 2012 by antoineflemming

[AlexVestin 24]

I stand corrected at some points. So changable camouflage is in? Not just other uniforms? :)

Still haven't heard anything about gloves for example. Screenshots do not confirm if they are customizable or not. The vehicle part sounded interesting, tho.

Edited April 20, 2012 by AlexVestin

[antoineflemming 14]

I stand corrected at some points. So changable camouflage is in? Not just other uniforms? :)

Still haven't heard anything about gloves, tho. The vehicle part sounded interesting.

I'm actually the opposite of you. I'm pretty sure gloves are in. I don't know about changeable camouflage. But, I think these screens are proof of changeable camo:

Those camouflages look different.

[Maio 293]

Antoine, don't get me wrong, I want as much diversity as we can get, but several screenshots are hinting to the fact that things like gloves and holsters will be dependent on what type of vest you wear. All the soldiers that were wearing the "recon vest" ( the one with no pouches or gear on it) had no pistol holster for example. I also think and I hope I am wrong... that when you equip a vest over your "underwear" the pants/gloves will automatically appear on your body.

We need some :icon_evil: in this thread :)

[AlexVestin 24]

Sure gloves are in, but there's still a difference between being customizable and being just another model. Same with uniforms :O

There has always been a completely different model for other camouflage patterns. Same for gloves and all that.

Helmets and other outer vest accessories I can see how it could just be a proxy. Gloves could be too, but it's such a small detail with no impact on gameplay.

What maionaze said sounded like the most logical solution. Similar to CoD models. One base model, there's just a

ton of bodygroups (in this case as the option of a different vest) that changes the look of the model alot.

I'm not really arguing against you, just wording my mind. If BIS have found ways to make the most gear customizable, I'm nothing but happy!

Edited April 20, 2012 by AlexVestin

[antoineflemming 14]

Antoine, don't get me wrong, I want as much diversity as we can get, but several screenshots are hinting to the fact that things like gloves and holsters will be dependent on what type of vest you wear. All the soldiers that were wearing the "recon vest" ( the one with no pouches or gear on it) had no pistol holster for example. I also think and I hope I am wrong... that when you equip a vest over your "underwear" the pants/gloves will automatically appear on your body.

We need some :icon_evil: in this thread :)

Wait, you think pants are tied to the vest? If anything, the gloves will be tied to the uniform.

I think camo will be tied to uniform. As far as all the recon units having no pistol holders, well pistol holders could be tied to the pants/uniform. Remember, even with the customization, there will still be units that will have default gear items, most likely set up in config files. So if you place a recon unit (or whatever it will be called) in the editor, and don't change anything about him, then he'll probably have that uniform as a default.

[Maio 293]

Wait, you think pants are tied to the vest? If anything, the gloves will be tied to the uniform.

Yes and depending on what vest you wear you will also get the extras like the pistol holster and maybe something else. Gloves seem to be a constant in all screenshots. Hope I am wrong :)

[antoineflemming 14]

Yes and depending on what vest you wear you will also get the extras like the pistol holster and maybe something else. Gloves seem to be a constant in all screenshots. Hope I am wrong :)

Oh, that's what you're saying. They are still separate models, but not customizable... well, that'd be lame, because they'd basically be customizable without being customizable. Config-wise they'd be customizable (a separate pistol holder, but selectable based on chosen vest instead of selected by player choice)... If that's the case they might as well allow players to customize that stuff. Because in that case all it would take is to determine that by a profile choice, and not by vest choice...

[PuFu 4600]

there is in fact, very little that is confirmed. The fact that YOU want to believe more into it that has been actually confirmed is a totally different thing. I for one know very little about how the system will work, and to what extent the customization will happen (for weapons those will be most likely proxies, but not for everything else as well). Maybe you know more directly from the horse's mouth, but i really doubt it.

anyways, for some weird reason you assume those meshes would be layered one on top of another. You couldn't be more wrong about that. For instance the lad in the shorts from that picture is one mesh, not 2 - one the human model, and one the shirt and the shorts.

As for the gloves, that image you have seen is NOT a ingame model, it is a HP model (mudbox or zbrush), showing off the amount of details the aim at for baking. no more no less.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

Config-wise they'd be customizable (a separate pistol holder, but selectable based on chosen vest instead of selected by player choice)...

say that again in english please. That holster could very well be part of that vest mesh...One can go only so far with individual items attached to another item i am affraid.

You, for some reason do NOT count the fact that each of those model would require a separate UV, hence another section towards a higher count = bad for FPS.

I know a lot of you lads have no idea about the "under the bonnet", and you never take it into acount when you are convincing yourself that one thing you want is most definitely possible but that bad BIS might not get it in out of laziness

[antoineflemming 14]

there is in fact, very little that is confirmed. The fact that YOU want to believe more into it that has been actually confirmed is a totally different thing. I for one know very little about how the system will work, and to what extent the customization will happen (for weapons those will be most likely proxies, but not for everything else as well). Maybe you know more directly from the horse's mouth, but i really doubt it.

anyways, for some weird reason you assume those meshes would be layered one on top of another. You couldn't be more wrong about that. For instance the lad in the shorts from that picture is one mesh, not 2 - one the human model, and one the shirt and the shorts.

As for the gloves, that image you have seen is NOT a ingame model, it is a HP model (mudbox or zbrush), showing off the amount of details the aim at for baking. no more no less.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

say that again in english please. That holster could very well be part of that vest mesh...One can go only so far with individual items attached to another item i am affraid.

You, for some reason do NOT count the fact that each of those model would require a separate UV, hence another section towards a higher count = bad for FPS.

I know a lot of you lads have no idea about the "under the bonnet", and you never take it into acount when you are convincing yourself that one thing you want is most definitely possible but that bad BIS might not get it in out of laziness

That is English. I understand your point about the gloves, and the holder being part of the vest model. No need for you to get all offended and such. I know the underwear and human model are one mesh. I said that. I also understand that the customization system could be in fact no different than the current system, just varying character models that you can choose. The vest+undershirt+pants+helmet could be all one model. the helmet+nvgs+eyewear could be one helmet in a list of helmets. I understand that perfectly. I don't really consider that a customization system, just changing out models (basically like ArmA2, just the ability to make yourself a rifleman as opposed to an automatic rifleman). But that could very well be the extent of their "customization" system as they haven't really confirmed anything about it. So I understand that. As I said, no need to get offended because there's a post you don't like.

Oh, and by the way, in english, it's "afraid", not "affraid".

[PuFu 4600]

Oh, and by the way, in english, it's "afraid", not "affraid".

much obliged son, i am not a native english speaker, i'm deeply sorry for misspelling.

I understand your point about the gloves, and the holder being part of the vest model.

in english, you mean the holster, don't you?

No need for you to get all offended and such.

i didn't.

I know the underwear and human model are one mesh. I said that. I also understand that the customization system could be in fact no different than the current system, just varying character models that you can choose. The vest+undershirt+pants+helmet could be all one model. the helmet+nvgs+eyewear could be one helmet in a list of helmets. I understand that perfectly.

your are contradicting yourself. based on post #3 andpost #5 in this very thread, you obviously take YOUR OWN expected behaviour as a confirmed and given.

I don't really consider that a customization system, just changing out models (basically like ArmA2, just the ability to make yourself a rifleman as opposed to an automatic rifleman). But that could very well be the extent of their "customization" system

I really don't care what you consider a customization system or not, this was not the point of this thread (at least from my pov).

The customization could be a bit more generic and not take into account smaller parts such as number of pouches or details on the vest such as holster or alike. It could be vest model 1/2/3 or uniform type 1/2/3 just as well. does that mean no player customization? No, it means it doesn't transform A3 in TF3...

as they haven't really confirmed anything about it. So I understand that.

glad you acknowledged it

As I said, no need to get offended because there's a post you don't like.

you sort of like repeating yourself, which makes me do the same thing: i didn't.

[antoineflemming 14]

1) in english, you mean the holster, don't you?

2) your are contradicting yourself. based on post #3 andpost #5 in this very thread, you obviously take YOUR OWN expected behaviour as a confirmed and given.

1) hehe, yeah, wow. definitely meant holster

2) I don't see how I contradicted myself. I said that I never said that the underwear was separate clothing... the rest of that was sarcasm. I think the goggles on the pic with the helmets are separate glasses. I still think the NVGs are an additional item. And if not customizable, I still think that helmets won't show them unless players have NVGs as equipment. But, of course, that's speculation. I thought that the gloves were confirmed because I thought BIS was showing ingame models of the gloves. But you said they weren't. As far as separate pants and shirt, well I still think so. At least I think that there's just pants and then there's shirt and pants. I don't think that there's a uniform that's undershirt+pants.

Ultimately, PuFu, speculation is a common aspect of discussing games. It's going to happen. People like to speculate on features in a game, whether they're confirmed features or not. There's nothing wrong with that. And I understood you to be offended because of the use of ALL CAP words. It implies anger, frustruation, and/or annoyance, which I consider aspects of being offended.

[mr. bravo 17]

Why assume that the body is one mesh? :p If you think Skyrim/Fallout3, the body can just as well be separeted seamless pieces, where for example if you put on pants, your legs and underwear will disappear from render for the pants-model, and same goes for every body-part that get dressed or somehow changed (Feet, legs, lower body, upper body, arms, hands, and head). This way you wont have unnecessary underlying polygons and will also avoid nasty clipping during animations.

All clothes also doesnt have to be used in special combinations. Using reference-points when modelling to have the different cloth/gear not clipping with eachother would solve this. The only things that would maybe have to be specially made/placed for certain uniforms/vests are "loose" gear that has to be placed on points on your soldiers where it's logical and fitting. Every vest has different possible layouts for pockets, and same goes for all other places where you can stripe your gear on. This could probably also be avoided if you manage to have dynamic reference-points for pockets/gear based on what vest/cloth you're carrying.

Also there will most likely be some uniforms being one-piece as for example diving-suits that cover your whole body, and overalls for pilots, etc.

Oh well, lots of speculations here anyway, and I agree with Pufu that the render screenshots doesnt really tell us anything about the system. The soldier meshes of both ArmA2 and ArmA1 wasnt completely welded together either. Gloves and jackets or whatever can still be separated pieces eventhough they appear as one ingame. It's completely up to the one who implements it.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Mr. Bravo

[antoineflemming 14]

Why assume that the body is one mesh? :p If you think Skyrim/Fallout3, the body can just as well be separeted seamless pieces, where for example if you put on pants, your legs and underwear will disappear from render for the pants-model, and same goes for every body-part that get dressed or somehow changed (Feet, legs, lower body, upper body, arms, hands, and head). This way you wont have unnecessary underlying polygons and will also avoid nasty clipping during animations.

All clothes also doesnt have to be used in special combinations. Using reference-points when modelling to have the different cloth/gear not clipping with eachother would solve this. The only things that would maybe have to be specially made/placed for certain uniforms/vests are "loose" gear that has to be placed on points on your soldiers where it's logical and fitting. Every vest has different possible layouts for pockets, and same goes for all other places where you can stripe your gear on. This could probably also be avoided if you manage to have dynamic reference-points for pockets/gear based on what vest/cloth you're carrying.

Also there will most likely be some uniforms being one-piece as for example diving-suits that cover your whole body, and overalls for pilots, etc.

Oh well, lots of speculations here anyway, and I agree with Pufu that the render screenshots doesnt really tell us anything about the system. The soldier meshes of both ArmA2 and ArmA1 wasnt completely welded together either. Gloves and jackets or whatever can still be separated pieces eventhough they appear as one ingame. It's completely up to the one who implements it.

IDK, the underwear and male model don't look like separate meshes. But, for everything else, they probably will be, since that's how BAF's models are (the vests look like different meshes than the combat shirt for example, unlike ArmA2/OA vanilla's models). Honestly, yeah, it's speculation, but I certainly hope they are separate pieces. One can always hope for a full customization system lol. I just hope that E3 is a huge ArmA3 reveal (and I guess it should be, since Community Alpha will follow afterwards).

[rye1 21]

Maybe the pistol holsters won't be there unless you have one on your person.

Maybe...

Maybe.

[antoineflemming 14]

Maybe the pistol holsters won't be there unless you have one on your person.

Maybe...

Maybe.

Hopefully, but doubt it.