Tank Idea

[murphywnjuk 0]

Us British people do have our successes. I mean, as mentioned we took the AH-64, made it a whole lot better and called it a WAH-64 Apache Longbow (or Longbow Apache....i dont know which).

However in places we are still kind of backwards. Take the Jaguar....how many refits have those things gone through. The MoD seem to take the old Jaguars, put something minor in like a new ejection seat handle.... call it a new aircraft and then say its gonna last another 10 years.

SA80 is now one of the best weapons in the world of its type, just a shame not everyone in the armed forces has the updated version yet. This weapon SHOULD be put into OPF along with standard British troops.

[ran 0]

(Edited by ran at 9:59 pm on Nov. 24, 2001)

[Black Op 0]

the char de bataille was a better tank than the leclerc :biggrin:

[Black Op 0]

it would kick a T80's ass :biggrin:

[The Blind Sniper 0]

Pffrt. The T-90 is an overrated scout tank.

Who are all these commie bastards who stick up for it all the time?

The Russian tanks dont even appear on lists of the world's heavy tanks.

Things the likes of the Challanger, Abrams, Leopard2.. outclass russian tanks by so much you cant even compare them.

A story from the gulfwar, I recall.. where an Abrams became stuck in the sand, and unable to free itself...

An Iraqi T72 came along.. shot the Abrams, to no effect, the Abrams then destroyed it. Another T72 came along.. shot the Abrams.. also to no effect, the Abrams destroyed it as well.

A 3rd T72 came along.. behind a nearby sand dune, hiding from the Abrams.. but the crew of the M1A1 spotted its ariel sticking up above the dune, and fired a Sabot right through the dune, killing the 3rd T72.

They tried pulling it out, unsuccessfully, with 3 more Abrams, as I recall.. they ended up taking out some of the tech & blowing the insides with demo charges, to stop anyone from stealing its tech. I think it was the only abrams lost in the gulf war.. or one of few.. none lost to Iraqi tanks.

German tanks from WW2.. the less common ones, like the Panther, the Tiger, the King Tiger (400), and the Hunting Tiger (44) amaze me. I love those tanks.. if they had been mass produced like Shermans they would have won the war for the Germans.

The Russian KV was a nice heavy tank. The T-34 was good.. compared to Shermans & mark VIs.

[Black Op 0]

i love talking about ww2 tanks , sherman was the most produced tank of ww2 but it was weak as s**t :)m a tiger tank usually took about 6 shermans with it, the allied tanks were hopeless against them, most german tanks were destroyed by the rocket firing typhoons.

The t34 was not as strong as a tiger but it had more manouverability which is a big advantage in the mud off the eastern front, a later model of the t34 came out in late 44 i think with a 85mm cannon, the previous model was only 76mm, when the t34 came out in 42 it obsoleted all tanks previously :biggrin:

i love t34's

not that any of this has much to do with ofp

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 8:49 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

Pffrt. The T-90 is an overrated scout tank.

Who are all these commie bastards who stick up for it all the time?

The Russian tanks dont even appear on lists of the world's heavy tanks.

Things the likes of the Challanger, Abrams, Leopard2.. outclass russian tanks by so much you cant even compare them.

A story from the gulfwar, I recall.. where an Abrams became stuck in the sand, and unable to free itself...

An Iraqi T72 came along.. shot the Abrams, to no effect, the Abrams then destroyed it. Another T72 came along.. shot the Abrams.. also to no effect, the Abrams destroyed it as well.

A 3rd T72 came along.. behind a nearby sand dune, hiding from the Abrams.. but the crew of the M1A1 spotted its ariel sticking up above the dune, and fired a Sabot right through the dune, killing the 3rd T72.

They tried pulling it out, unsuccessfully, with 3 more Abrams, as I recall.. they ended up taking out some of the tech & blowing the insides with demo charges, to stop anyone from stealing its tech. I think it was the only abrams lost in the gulf war.. or one of few.. none lost to Iraqi tanks.

German tanks from WW2.. the less common ones, like the Panther, the Tiger, the King Tiger (400), and the Hunting Tiger (44) amaze me. I love those tanks.. if they had been mass produced like Shermans they would have won the war for the Germans.

The Russian KV was a nice heavy tank. The T-34 was good.. compared to Shermans & mark VIs.

<span id='postcolor'>

I love Jagdpanthers and they will be in the Invasion1944 mod.

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 9:49 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

Pffrt. The T-90 is an overrated scout tank

The Russian tanks dont even appear on lists of the world's heavy tanks.

A story from the gulfwar, I recall.. where an Abrams became stuck in the sand, and unable to free itself...

An Iraqi T72 came along.. shot the Abrams, to no effect, the Abrams then destroyed it. Another T72 came along.. shot the Abrams.. also to no effect, the Abrams destroyed it as well.

A 3rd T72 came along.. behind a nearby sand dune, hiding from the Abrams.. but the crew of the M1A1 spotted its ariel sticking up above the dune, and fired a Sabot right through the dune, killing the 3rd T72.

They tried pulling it out, unsuccessfully, with 3 more Abrams, as I recall.. they ended up taking out some of the tech & blowing the insides with demo charges, to stop anyone from stealing its tech. I think it was the only abrams lost in the gulf war.. or one of few.. none lost to Iraqi tanks.

<span id='postcolor'>

Shh! Dont say this here, all the T-80,90, whatever lovers will come and say its bulls**t, then proceed to talk about how their tanks can tank 10+ RPG's to the top of the turret and still roll around

[The Blind Sniper 0]

Jagdpanthers was another one I was gonna mention.

I love the Jagdtiger especially. It's a meaty tank, by today's standards, with a 128mm gun.

Armor was plain steel of course, would have trouble now. Problem is, they only ever made 44 of them before the war ended. lol

lol, no doubt Kane.

Dont get me wrong, I like the commie tanks.

The thing is, they're in a different league to the Western ones. They just dont compare.

It's like comparing GR to OFP.

Commie tanks are cool, they have their good features. Nice armor. Fast. Lightweight. Big (125mm) gun.

But Western tanks have better armor. And roughly 20 tons more of it.

A small turret doesnt mean much if you can blow it up with a RPG7

Whereas who cares about the Abrams - Leopards - Challangers big turrets.. Unless you've got a TOW or one of those downward firing Bofors missiles, you arent gonna scratch it's paint.

BTW, I really hate that Britney song "Slave 4 U"

If that doesnt scream "2 dolla sucky sucky" I dont know what does. (aside from bad music, bad lyrics, and general lack of talent)

Sorry, it just came on MTV, and it had to be said.

[King Kong 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 9:49 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

Pffrt. The T-90 is an overrated scout tank.

Who are all these commie bastards who stick up for it all the time?

The Russian tanks dont even appear on lists of the world's heavy tanks.

Things the likes of the Challanger, Abrams, Leopard2.. outclass russian tanks by so much you cant even compare them.

A story from the gulfwar, I recall.. where an Abrams became stuck in the sand, and unable to free itself...

An Iraqi T72 came along.. shot the Abrams, to no effect, the Abrams then destroyed it. Another T72 came along.. shot the Abrams.. also to no effect, the Abrams destroyed it as well.

A 3rd T72 came along.. behind a nearby sand dune, hiding from the Abrams.. but the crew of the M1A1 spotted its ariel sticking up above the dune, and fired a Sabot right through the dune, killing the 3rd T72.

They tried pulling it out, unsuccessfully, with 3 more Abrams, as I recall.. they ended up taking out some of the tech & blowing the insides with demo charges, to stop anyone from stealing its tech. I think it was the only abrams lost in the gulf war.. or one of few.. none lost to Iraqi tanks.

German tanks from WW2.. the less common ones, like the Panther, the Tiger, the King Tiger (400), and the Hunting Tiger (44) amaze me. I love those tanks.. if they had been mass produced like Shermans they would have won the war for the Germans.

The Russian KV was a nice heavy tank. The T-34 was good.. compared to Shermans & mark VIs.

<span id='postcolor'>

Simple, because Iraq used export versions of a Chinese T-72 copy wich have less armor and no ERA

Gulf-war was mostly airstrikes instead of tank battles

it was the APFSDU round wich is ment for piercing armor and kill the crew in it it, Many Iraqi childeren who played in burnedout tanks have cancer and tank crews who have the "gulf syndrome" it produces a radioactive dust its banned in warfare now

gulf-war was also an US "propaganda" war.

[Guest Scooby]

That story about Russian tank taking 11 or 13 RPG hits is true.

I'm somewhat sure that side hit to M1A2 tank from 112mm Apilas would destroy it or severly damage it.

[King Kong 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Scooby on 11:31 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

That story about Russian tank taking 11 or 13 RPG hits is true.

I'm somewhat sure that side hit to M1A2 tank from 112mm Apilas would destroy it or severly damage it. <span id='postcolor'>

It was in Cheyna a couple of Chechen rebels who were fireing 13 RPG's against a T80U or T80UK i can't remember

[Krechet1 0]

Jagd Tiger was actually a s**tty tank unless used in very specific conditions (very flat terrain and good 2km between you and the enemy). Jagd Tiger had very little sloped armor, no rotating turret, very unmaneuvrable (there were cases of Soviet infantrymen destroying those beasts with well placed Molotovs), and very prone to side and rear hits. T-34 could simply circle around Jagd tiger if gotten close enough and plink shots at it untill it brewed up (same applies to "normal" Panzer VI ausf E btw, very slow, unmaneuvereable and unreliable).

Soviets were always wondering why Germans went on with developing "wonder" tanks when upgraded Mark IV in sufficent numbers could do the job just fine. Panther was also a respected tank on the eastern front, but then again it was a direct ripoff from T-34 concept (with beefed up armour and added reliability problems). By the time Panther came out, T-34-85 dominated the battle field.

those who still think German tanks were "holy", read those documents (Actual WW2 reports):

http://history.vif2.ru/library/battles/battles18.html

http://history.vif2.ru/library/battles/battle16.html

http://history.vif2.ru/library/battles/battle1.html

Germans did destroy 5 times more tanks, but there were very few T-34s, KV-1 and JS tanks amongst them. Most of those destroyed were older T-28s and such during first 2 years of the war. On later stages kill ratio was on Soviet side (in both men and equipment).

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 9:49 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

I think it was the only abrams lost in the gulf war.. or one of few.. none lost to Iraqi tanks.

<span id='postcolor'>

This is an official account of the battle of 73 Easting; I dispels a few myths about the Gulf War. You'll find out what the Combat performance of the Abrams is realisically; It isn't a super tank.

Er, actually, thinking about it, it is..

No info about Challenger losses, though. but this has got my interest...

http://www.mideasti.org/articles/bourque.html

Oh, BTW, The people there called it "Fright Night..." the worst losses to the Iraqi's in a single action in the whole campaign.

(Edited by Wardog at 12:31 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

[Aaron Kane 0]

Baah... the Challengers didnt take much punishment from our A-10's

J/k.... J/k....

[The Blind Sniper 0]

Or the Warrior the stupid americans blew up.

Partly fault of the British, the Americans radioed and asked if there were any friendlies in the area, and they said there wasnt.

But still.. a warrior is pretty distinctive.

Pffrt. It's easy for a tank to take that many RPG hits, RPGs suck. Read Blackhawk Down?

RPGs on the wrong angle would bounce off a Trabant.

Scooby - You said that the T80 takes 13 hits, or whatever.. then quote a different kind of RPG to blow up an Abrams? That's somewhat misleading, dont you think?

I doubt it. A 125mm sabot has trouble penetrating an abrams.. even from the side.

From the top, however, is a different story.

All tanks are s**t. They need constant maintaining, which is a side where the Russians win. They also need lots of gas. Which is where the Russians lose.

Also - I didnt say the JagdTiger was great... I just said I liked it. It's a nice tank in Close Combat 2, lol.

And Queen Kong - Good for them. Depleted Uranium is cheap, and effective. It gets rid of a small part of nuclear waste. Oh d*amn. The people we're trying to SHOOT might get sick from the radiation from the bullet.

f**k I hate all that.. no lead bullets, they might get poisoned. You just shot them!! Who cares if they get lead poisoning. Same with shotguns, hollowpoints, etc. God. Fuss fuss, politically correct bulls**t. We have to kill them humanly. Pffrt.

[madmike 0]

the black eagle would loose against an air rifle

[Aaron Kane 0]

Hmm... I dont know Blind Sniper. I can see how someone could confuse a Warrior with a BMP, or a Challenger for a T-55.

When you have that many aircraft and vehicles buzzing around a big ass sandbox, somebody is going to get sand thrown into their eyes.

[DVII 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 10:02 pm on Nov. 24, 2001

Jagdpanthers was another one I was gonna mention.

I love the Jagdtiger especially. It's a meaty tank, by today's standards, with a 128mm gun.

Armor was plain steel of course, would have trouble now. Problem is, they only ever made 44 of them before the war ended. lol

lol, no doubt Kane.

Dont get me wrong, I like the commie tanks.

The thing is, they're in a different league to the Western ones. They just dont compare.

It's like comparing GR to OFP.

Commie tanks are cool, they have their good features. Nice armor. Fast. Lightweight. Big (125mm) gun.

But Western tanks have better armor. And roughly 20 tons more of it.

A small turret doesnt mean much if you can blow it up with a RPG7

Whereas who cares about the Abrams - Leopards - Challangers big turrets.. Unless you've got a TOW or one of those downward firing Bofors missiles, you arent gonna scratch it's paint.

BTW, I really hate that Britney song "Slave 4 U"

If that doesnt scream "2 dolla sucky sucky" I dont know what does. (aside from bad music, bad lyrics, and general lack of talent)

Sorry, it just came on MTV, and it had to be said.

<span id='postcolor'>

No offence man but there wer 70 Jagdtigers built, maybe you mean only 44 with a 128mm gun, they made some Jagdtigers with 88mm(PaK 43/3) guns because they wer out of 128mm( PaK 44).

And i love the Jagdpanther: 46 tons with a max speed of 55 kmh (same speed as a T34) It could take out any tank it encounterd (It took 1 shot to the side to take out a IS2). Sometimes single or small groups of Jagdpanthers could hold up Alied armored advance for considerable periods.

Only 382 wer built and even 40 years after its design would still have been a good weapon.

[Krechet1 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from The Blind Sniper on 1:13 am on Nov. 25, 2001

Or the Warrior the stupid americans blew up.

Partly fault of the British, the Americans radioed and asked if there were any friendlies in the area, and they said there wasnt.

But still.. a warrior is pretty distinctive.

Pffrt. It's easy for a tank to take that many RPG hits, RPGs suck. Read Blackhawk Down?

RPGs on the wrong angle would bounce off a Trabant.

Scooby - You said that the T80 takes 13 hits, or whatever.. then quote a different kind of RPG to blow up an Abrams? That's somewhat misleading, dont you think?

I doubt it. A 125mm sabot has trouble penetrating an abrams.. even from the side.

From the top, however, is a different story.

All tanks are s**t. They need constant maintaining, which is a side where the Russians win. They also need lots of gas. Which is where the Russians lose.

Also - I didnt say the JagdTiger was great... I just said I liked it. It's a nice tank in Close Combat 2, lol.

And Queen Kong - Good for them. Depleted Uranium is cheap, and effective. It gets rid of a small part of nuclear waste. Oh d*amn. The people we're trying to SHOOT might get sick from the radiation from the bullet.

f**k I hate all that.. no lead bullets, they might get poisoned. You just shot them!! Who cares if they get lead poisoning. Same with shotguns, hollowpoints, etc. God. Fuss fuss, politically correct bulls**t. We have to kill them humanly. Pffrt.

<span id='postcolor'>

What RPGs are you talking about? RPG-7 is a great tool in close combat (and for taking out doors in urban fighting). But saying RPG-29 is s**t is a little ignorant. Or famous Shmel', which produces practically a mini nuke effect right out of a tube. RPG development didnt get stuck on the Shaitan trube (RPG-7). But RPG-7 is still great for lobbing grenades into buildings and such and against light armour.

As for gas, Russian tanks need twice less gas than any NATO tank. And they can run on practically anything without worrying about clogging the combustion chamber or air filters. Economically for a long term warfare Russian tanks are way to go (that's why middle eastern countries dont want American or Western European equipment: they are constantly at war and cannot afford their tanks to break every 100km).

[NVA Killer 0]

whats so different about the WAH64 and AH64 that makes it better?

<a href="http://www.voodoo.cz/ah64/wah64.html

what" target="_blank">http://www.voodoo.cz/ah64/wah64.html

what</a> ever modifications made was done by boeing so says this site.

(Edited by NVA Killer at 8:05 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

[Guest Scooby]

"Pffrt. It's easy for a tank to take that many RPG hits, RPGs suck. Read Blackhawk Down?

RPGs on the wrong angle would bounce off a Trabant.

Scooby - You said that the T80 takes 13 hits, or whatever.. then quote a different kind of RPG to blow up an Abrams? That's somewhat misleading, dont you think?

I doubt it. A 125mm sabot has trouble penetrating an abrams.. even from the side.

From the top, however, is a different story. "

I would say that chechens were using RPG-7's or LAW look alike RPG's to destroy that tank. I dont know and cant remember what type of the tank it was which was destroyed.

As far as I know there are different, less modern and more modern ammunition for RPG-7. Basic ammo would be about as effective as 66mm LAW round? (not claiming that I would know too much about RPG's)

I mentioned Apilas taking out M1 tank because you compared damage done on tanks by taking weapon from least effective end and almost most effective end totally forgetting weapons from the middle.

I'm certain that Apilas would be enough to harm it from side or rear sectors.

[Stag 0]

Doh! you're right.

Lost the source of the duff info, so can't even inform them they're talking bollocks.

[The Blind Sniper 0]

I meant the RPG7 vs tanks.

I wouldnt mind a RPG7 for shooting at my neighbours house, though.

I was mostly referring to how the Russians cant afford gas for their tanks, not the actual gas consumption of the tanks... lol

I know a guy with a T-80 :biggrin: I'm itchin to take it for a cruise!

[Hawkeye 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from NVA Killer on 7:01 am on Nov. 25, 2001

whats so different about the WAH64 and AH64 that makes it better?

<a href="http://www.voodoo.cz/ah64/wah64.html

what" target="_blank">http://www.voodoo.cz/ah64/wah64.html

what</a> ever modifications made was done by boeing so says this site.

(Edited by NVA Killer at 8:05 am on Nov. 25, 2001)

<span id='postcolor'>

The WAH-64 has a Merlin engine in it, also, I believe it uses TOW's rather than Hellfires. It's about tine the British Army got a proper attack chopper. I cant believe the actually use Gazells in the attack role. They use the Lynx too, but it's cool.