A discussion on Turrets, Targets, and related commands

[madrussian 347]

I've been doing dispersion work recently (preliminary testing, etc), and was shocked to discover that currently in ArmA2, AI crewed vehicles with multiple turrets only target one individual enemy at any given time. Even when the turrets are facing opposite directions! One would be inclined to believe that each turret could and would follow a separate target. After all, isn't the point of turrets to shoot at different things at the same time? :)

I have high hopes for ArmA3, and the issue currently may not be obvious in regular ArmA2 gameplay, but can be proven beyond any doubt with a simple test in the editor (1.60 and previous versions):

1. Create an AI crewed BMP3. (I chose a BMP3 because it has one main 360º turret, plus two forward-facing hull gunners that have limited field-of-fire).

2. Have the BMP3 watch something like an empty car directly behind it (so that the main gun is facing backward), via doWatch.

3. Create two west men, and make them both impervious to fire via "this allowDamage false"

4. Have the men walk out from behind buildings, first one behind the BMP3, then the other man in front on the BMP3.

5. Carefully watch what happens.

The BMP3 will fire begin firing on its first target, the man behind it, with the main turret, as expected. Here's the problem: The man in front is a legitimate target and the BMP3 has two hull gunners capable of opening fire on this second man. However, they do not open fire. Instead, the two hull gunners will wait indefinitely... until the moment this legitimate target in front is actually "targeted" (which you can monitor via assignedTarget).

Unfortunately, currently in ArmA2 it's one target per vehicle at any given time (regardless of multiple turrets).

IMO, it should be one target per turret at any given time. Can you imagine a B-17 bomber, bristling with MGs, that can only target one enemy fighter at a time?!? :eek:

Incidentally, assignedTarget operates on a vehicle (i,e, tested and for vehicles, it only works for vehicle itself or the commander, not the turret gunners), where as IMO it should operate on individual turret gunners.

Anyhow, hope this gets sorted by ArmA3, hopefully yet in ArmA2.

[Finally, I figure this deserves its own thread as it's quite fundamental to the game engine... let's see if mods agree. Thanks!]

EDIT

While the above case of vehicle AI-only crew not making effective use of its multiple turrets (i.e. not shooting someone right in front of them with hull gunners just because the main gun is engaged) is indeed repeatable, further testing has revealed that multi-turreted AI vehicles are indeed firing at multiple simultaneous targets, at least in many cases. :)

Edited January 26, 2012 by MadRussian

[maturin 12]

Can't tank commanders have separate targets from the gunner? Seems like this could be a workaround deal, at the least.

[madrussian 347]

You would think so. However, based on my testing... seems not! :)

[maturin 12]

Actually, that explains the general uselessness of the rooftop .50 when commanding from the driver's seat.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just tested and the result is different:

AI front gunner was firing at the front group and the main gunner is firing with the machinegun at rear group. :)

Additionally tested:

- without rear group but with "dowatch" /turret+main gun in opposite direction result:

AI front gunners (BMP3) are using their weapons

- AI Main battle tanks do also engage different targets eg commander was shooting at infantry while the gunner fired at an armored vehicle.

[madrussian 347]

@NoRailGunner

Thanks for trying this out. Interesting we got different results. I'm off to run some variations on this test and report back shortly! Hopefully we can pin down the discrepancy here.

EDIT:

OK, it took a large number of attempts, but I finally got the BMP3 to consistently fire at different targets simultaneously. Some observations (same basic test, BMP3 facing its main turret backward, only this time with a large # of invulnerable west men in back, me the player on foot and invulnerable in front):

• Most of the time, when the main gun was engaged with the large group of infantry behind, the front hull gunners ignored me as I ran around the front of the BMP3. I'm thinking this could probably use some tweaking.
  
• When the west AI were closer (though still only within firing arc of main gun, not front gunners), it was seemingly impossible to get the BMP3 hull gunners to shoot at me while the main gun was engaged with the west footmen, without the main gun switching to me at exactly the moment the hull gunners opened fire. Again, not ideal, but not necessarily broken either. Most of the time in this case, I could run around in front of the BMP3 unmolested, without being targeted at all. I guess the BMP3 hull gunners were distracted? Perhaps this can be considered realistic. However, I probably got the BMP3 to split fire between front/back in only about 2 of 40 tries (when the west men in the rear were close).
  
• When the west AI were further away, finally I could get the BMP3 to split fire between front and back more consistently. The interesting thing here was, while the main gun was engaged with the rear forces, only the right hull gunner would ever fire at me... never the left. When the main gun would join and start shooting at me too, only then would the left hull gun join in. Hmmmm... Anyhow, that was repeatable.
  

To summarize, after extensive observation I stand corrected about my claim that vehicles with multiple turrets never fire on more than one target at a time. But I have found at least one clear case (see initial post in this thread), where the AI is failing consistently at making any use of its additional turrets.

A more important item I'd like to focus on is assignedTarget:

As it stands (again please correct if I'm wrong), there is no way to get the current target of a turret gunner.

I hereby advocate for assignedTarget to be expanded to turret gunners (in ArmA3, if not hopefully yet in ArmA2). :)

Edited January 26, 2012 by MadRussian