timmers 10 Posted October 29, 2011 just after light on skids. HI! Brill sim....love it....but all night i cant lift off without the chopper moving backwards just after going light on the skids. Is this just Ground Effect? I have attempted desperately to apply forward cyclic (really gently) but still scoots off backwards! Have tried to use keyboard and X52 mapped but same effect. cheers timmers ---------- Post added at 11:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ---------- As an afterthought as well...this issue occurs with auto hover on....so really strange? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftSkidLow 1 Posted October 29, 2011 Set manual trim, its in the action menu. Then trim forwards a bit with whatever key you assigned for manual trim buttons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra6 10 Posted October 30, 2011 My helicopter goes onto it's right side instantly, it's really REALLY hard to keep it somewhat straight when going for a slow collective. Cobra 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmers 10 Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I come from a fixed wing background and sadly just cant get my head around trimming a chopper even after reading the threads on here....must be an age thing! ;-( I really dont want to use hover aid or whatever it is called because I like to do things properly whats the point of a sim otherwise? All the time and money that goes into making a great sim with 'lifelike' control of something i think needs to be worked on by the 'pilot' ...dont give up...make it work..it will come! The way I see it when lifting off...you get the skids light..apply more collective....adjust with cyclic and then trim? Fixed wings you trim for take off and then take off. With rotary...what are you actually trimming for? Wind, direction of travel after lift off? cheers :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharpe34 10 Posted October 30, 2011 believe it or not, you actually trim the main rotor. And yes I'm having trouble with it as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted October 30, 2011 [/color]As an afterthought as well...this issue occurs with auto hover on....so really strange? Something seems very strange. On Expert using kb/mouse only, taking off without using autohover has never been a problem, unless it is in the takeoff training in the crowded area downtown. I just slam down analog collective and up I go. I have to adjust for rightward torque rotation using left pedal in light heli, and adjust for right roll using left cyclic for medium heli. Using autohover it is even easier. Perhaps your controller is malfunctioning or not set right??? You can quickly set manual trim forward with rctrl+num8, backward with rctrl+num2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharpe34 10 Posted October 30, 2011 not sure about what I'm doing right and wrong but I've managed to pass the take off section by literally doing upward and nowhere near straight cork screws. That doesn't seem quite right... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmers 10 Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks for replies. My technique was the issue I believe. I was probably increasing collective too gently after getting light on the skids so was probably being disrupted by ground effect. Perseverance is the key! Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarcasticpcgamer 10 Posted October 30, 2011 Notice the constant confusion of helpers... (Not bashing them) but Basically they always say they have no problems, and are using (AUTO-HOVER) but giving advice... How can we as a community correct this problem? As the thread OP is saying how he don't want to use this feature, then may be interpreting feedback incorrectly from someone who is.. I have seen this miscomprehended in about every thread on expert related flight issues.... Maybe we need several forums for each mode of play. People flying in expert, probably don't want auto trim/hover etc.. so to segregate the community is probably the best way... Make a forum for the following... One for expert flight stick One for other flight stick One for expert mouse/keyboard. One for other mouse/keyboard Seems like it would become a mess, but bad advice and worthless advice is not helping resolve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmers 10 Posted October 30, 2011 sarc p gamer...or it could be that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! :-) i want to fly these things as a simulation not an arcade game but thats me..other people want to get in on easy level and fly and whizz around. thats cool as well. i should have spent more time on chopper aerodynamics and how the thing actually works but i rushed in and posted before doing my homework. there is a staff member on the aerosoft forums that really BURNS people for stupid questions and really rubs people up the wrong way..but it works and things get solved mainly by the postee having to work it out for himself. NOT good for everybody.... and you are always going to get 'helpful' people in all works of life who want to 'help'...bless 'em...you just need to be able to sort the rubbish out from the good stuff...bit like wikipedia really! i agree with you that different forums would prob be good but would only be a microcosm of what we have now.. cheers s-pc-g Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftSkidLow 1 Posted October 30, 2011 OK well that's a cool story if it were true, you must be assuming I was talking about auto-trim. Manual cyclic trimming is found in every helicopter in real life and is implemented in ToH correctly. There is no true center position for a cyclic, only a perceived center that is created by springs and usually adjusted with electric motors. If you want to fly realistically, you need to be using manual trim and you need to be using it ALL THE TIME. Take the MD-500 for example, it has no hydraulic system and no stability augmentation (except the NOTAR's YSAS). Every control is directly connected with push/pull rods and pulleys. Now imagine the forces of that giant 5 bladed gyroscope spinning above your head powered by about 400 horse power. Gyroscopes don't like to move, especially giant 5 bladed ones, so cyclic inputs in the 500 can get tiring fast. Luckily the 500 has cyclic trim, which makes the stiff cyclic not such a big deal. When the trim system fails they actually recommend that you hold the cyclic with your knees so you don't run your arm strength down. Ok, so for the part you actually care about, manual Trim in ToH. -To initiate manual trim, scroll through your action menu with the middle mouse wheel and middle click on "Manual Trim Set." (In your helicopter controls, you will need to have set keys for trimming functions (trim forward, trim left, trim right trim down). It's best to find buttons on the joystick or keyboard that are in a cross layout. For example, numpad 8 for trim foreward, numpad 4 for trim left, etc. A joystick hat button would be the most realistic but not really practical unless you use trackIR or something.) -Let's say you are in level forward flight and the nose keeps climbing and rolling right. You could hold the stick down and left, or better yet, you could tap the forward and left trim keys a few times to adjust the center of the cyclic. It may take a few adjustments to get it right, this is normal, even in real helicopters. -Expect to have to continually change trim adjustments as you change airspeed or weight, this is also normal in real helicopters. -For taking off, you can get it light on the skids and try to feel what the helicopter is trying to do and trim against it. The most important factor here is practice and knowing how the helicopter will want to behave as it leaves the ground. Trim won't save you here but it can be convenient. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dale0404 5 Posted October 30, 2011 Notice the constant confusion of helpers... (Not bashing them) but Basically they always say they have no problems, and are using (AUTO-HOVER) but giving advice...How can we as a community correct this problem? As the thread OP is saying how he don't want to use this feature, then may be interpreting feedback incorrectly from someone who is.. I have seen this miscomprehended in about every thread on expert related flight issues.... Maybe we need several forums for each mode of play. People flying in expert, probably don't want auto trim/hover etc.. so to segregate the community is probably the best way... Make a forum for the following... One for expert flight stick One for other flight stick One for expert mouse/keyboard. One for other mouse/keyboard Seems like it would become a mess, but bad advice and worthless advice is not helping resolve So if it is going to be a mess why create more forums. Segregating the forums? Dont think so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarcasticpcgamer 10 Posted October 30, 2011 So if it is going to be a mess why create more forums. Segregating the forums? Dont think so... Wasting time with worthless replies and directions.... Rather have a trimmed down list of forums to choose from to get the proper help.... DO THINK SO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmers 10 Posted October 30, 2011 The most important factor here is practice and knowing how the helicopter will want to behave as it leaves the ground. Trim won't save you here but it can be convenient. spot on! :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
