Helicopters in of+ai soldiers = weird&stupidity!

[Hasha 2]

Common guys, this is unrealistic and not fun!

I flew in a Hind or Apache and on the ground there are like TANKS(NO AA TANKS), M2 Machine gunners and tons of soldiers and machine gunners, BUT NONE OF THOSE SUCKERS SHOOT AT ME!!! Can BIS please change the AI so that soldiers and tanks attack all the Helis in the game using machine guns BUT NOT JUST LIE ON THE GROUND WAITING FOR THEIR ass to be roasted by the heli! It will be more realistic when you engage soldiers or tanks and they try to shoot you with their guns and you hear the bullet hitting your heli armour! Common man, a platoon of soldier sees and enemy heli, they dun just stand there!! THEY FIRE AT IT!!!

[Kiowa 0]

apache's armor can take lots of 5.56&7.62 rds,so that's useless

[Pukko 0]

I have been complaining about the tanks not firing too... Most people dont seems to care. Some of the tanks do fire at some of the aircrafts (T80 on Cobra and Blackhawk, but not on Apache or Chinook for example, T72 dont seems to fire AA at all anylonger (did in earlier versions)) - and thats the most irritaing thing; the inconsistency in AI shooting AA fire with machineguns...

OFFTOPIC (the search engine still seems to be bad, cant find out if its a common problem):

Another bug I found when playing MP yesterday was that when respawning to a 'halted' team member, the other teammembers will not 'fall back into formation' since they seems to think that they cant follow someone with the status 'stop'...

[Hasha 2]

OK!!! 100 SOLDIERS on the ground with machine gun DO NOT JUST STAND there when an Apache arrives! THEY WILL FIRE AT IT!

[Pukko 0]

Regarding soldires not firing - I think SUMA wrote that they are not supposed to; since soldiers dont usually do in real war according to him.

I can accept that; seriously it would probably be quite frustrating when the AI guys in squad empty their magazines on choppers - its bad enough that they fire all they got as soon as they see a empty 'enemy' vehicle...

But the tanks AA fireing should really be fixed, sice that must be considered a bug, right??

[elendil004 0]

Firstly, if none of them shoot, they will 100% die

if they shoot, there is a small chance of getting a lucky shot. Hit the pilot, scare the pilot, whatever, so hell if ye rgonna die, try and not

[Speeeedy 0]

Firing at an Apache or Hind is about as useless as firing at an tank. You dont do that either

[Pukko 0]

But it would be nice if the soldiers would fire at choppers if one give commands:

All, target Blackhawk

All, fire (all + 3 + 3)

With this command the sodiers fire at most things they would not fire at normally, could probably work good if the AI recalls that they can fire in the air..

[SpaceAlex 0]

One T80 can destroy one Cobra without problems with its machine gun. They do not fire at Blackhawks. They would destroy an apache without problems too if all tanks would fire at it. Same goes for the Hinds. It wouldn't be fun.

[Satchel 0]

If coming under attack by helicopter (and only then) and no dedicated AA weapons are at your disposal, i.e. Stinger, then you use what is available, even your combat rifle, but preferably MG´s on special AA tripod mounts. Key is to pump up enough lead into the flightpath of the A/C, so that a "wall" of bullets results the aircraft is flying in, either warding the A/C off or to damage/ destroy several components of it.

Infantry Anti Air training with small arms (rifles, MG´s) is part of basic training over here, and i assume it´s too in the U.S., Russia and wherever.

12,7mm hmg´s (0.50 cal) of MBT´s are suited to down any aircraft, if enough lead can be put into the flightpath of the A/C. this is why MBT´s have 12,7mm AA MG´s mounted, than can be operated from the fighting compartment.

Being tolerant or resistent in a few places to 12.7mm doesn´t mean a lucky 7.62 or 5.56mm round wouldn´t also be able to down a helicopter, the Hind is no exception here. If multiple hits in the same area occur, the protection will decrease until minor or no protection is offered anymore caused by structural stress, so a location that was originally able to be TOLERANT (=not invulnerable! to 23mm might be even penetrated with ease by much smaller calibre.

A platoon of 4 tanks is able to cause serious damage to any helicopter, capable of destroying it, in addition no helicopter pilot will expose his gunship to unnecessary fire that would endanger the further mission completation. Even if a helicopter isn´t destroyed immediately by small arms fire, damage might be enough to force a landing/ and or mission abort, no pilot would risk that.

Now on the other hand Flashpoint isn´t ment to be a serious sim, but rather an action game, so this point as many others are not going to be adressed, nor is there a need to do so.

[advocatexxx 0]

I really don't know what is it you people are complaining about.

I have the M1A1/T-80 realism pack, and the T-80 shoots at every single western helicopter, including the Chinook and the Apache. Of course they only do so as long as the aircraft is within their firing arc, as the tanks can't point their gun at a high vertical angle.

[ralphwiggum 6]

my AIs seem like it can't get enough of firing on blackhawk. everytime i play 'Revenge'(SP), my machinegunner, upon seeing BlackHawk, would start firing at it.

[Hasha 2]

Where do you get that realism pack?

[Chill 0]

I have ben complaing about this for nearly a year!!! All infantry and tanks must at least try to shoot at the helicopters! This is so unbalanced! The russian infantry shoot at the UH60 with the mg but will not engage any other helicopters. I gave up on this topic long ago as Bi did not give a damn.

[advocatexxx 0]

IFV Realism Pack

MBT Realism Pack

[IceFire 0]

A whole platoon of men firing at a hind with their rifles will down it.

I did some tests earlier in the mission editor.

It takes about 21 whole magazines of an MP-5 to destroy a hind.

I'm sure a dozen men emptying their M-16 ammo onto a hind will down it in short time. If the hind doesn't retreat quickly enough. It's armor should wear away fairly quickly, or atleast visibly enough on the pilots HUD to realize that he had better get the hell out of there or lay down some heavy fire.

[ran 0]

do you know ho long it would take to destroy a flying and moving target with 10 m16s ?

do you know how long does it take to launch a 57mm rocket ?

[shadow 6]

The BMP-2 and Bradley is also afraid to shoot at choppers. That can't be right. They are obviously designed for AA-roles too. Check out how high they can aim their turrets

[IceFire 0]

I'm sorry, I don't know how many magazines of M-16 it would take to destroy a Hind, I do know it takes about 21 Mp5's.

Lets assume it takes about half the amount of M-16 rounds.

That's about 10 magazines.

If a whole squad goes burt fire on a hind and empties a whole clip.  

It should be down in no time.  The hind should go down in about the amount of time it takes to empty an M16 magazine.    

That's about 12 men, if you are all well hidden, well, the Hind crew is going to see it's armor being worn down pretty quick.  It's either gonna fly off in fear, or start looking around frantically to see who is letting lose on it.

And it would have to do that pretty fast cause the time it takes to empty an M16 clip isn't long.

That hind better react pretty fast.

[IceFire 0]

But anyways, that's all assuming it takes 10 full magazines to destroy a hind.

I don't really know.

[acidic35 0]

this is stupid. In the Gulf war, Iraqis have shot down helicopters with T72.

[Killerco 0]

I shot about 150 rounds of .50s off a jeep with machine gun into a hind's cocpit and it still was after me!

[IceFire 0]

Ok, sorry to burst your bubbles people.  But I just did multiple tests.

And it takes exactly 10 magazines and about a few extra (about 6 or so extra) rounds from the M-16 to blow up a hind.  That is both with it on the ground and it in the air.

But generally when it is in the air, the chopper pilot will bail out at about 9 whole magazines.  From what showed from my tests.

This means that if you got a whole dozen men with M-16's.  This means that you can take a hind down if each of you fire at most one whole magazine.

And since you really only need a little more than 10 magazines, you really only need ten men firing a whole clip and a few extra rounds here and there.  A full OPF squad of about a dozen men should easily be able to handle the job.

It doesn't take long at all to empty a magazine.  If you all surprize the hind, it will be down before it knows it is under fire.    Heck, having a whole dozen men is better, you all will definitely not have to go past one whole clip.

And having an entire squad is at best.  I don't see a problem with having less men but firing off some extra ammo to do the job if you are under attack from a hind trying to look for you.

Try this yourselves in the Mission Editor if you don't believe me folks.

[IceFire 0]

Heck, also, since the chopper crew bails before you even hit 10 mags. You all probably won't even need to waste a whole clip.

Think about that when saying that AI soldiers should not be able to fire at choppers with their rifles.

[IceFire 0]

Dammit, I didn't do this test for nothing!! Respond someone!