quickvenge
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Everything posted by quickvenge
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Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I haven't flown the Blackfoot in awhile, but I just tried it and have no issues landing it. Are you trying to do a rolling landing? I also didn't have issues auto-rotating, but this was done with engine off. Maybe your main rotor was getting shot off. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It's hard to simulate a helicopter. As gatordev pointed it's simply not conning that causes RPM to increase as well. As you pitchup the rotors do enter an auto-rotation state also. So its a combination of both coning, and TAF that causes the RPM to increase. DCS does a good job, but you had an entire development team tuning one helicopter module that you pay for. BIS has RTD which they pay for and are trying to model a bunch of helicopters. So it probably will never get to the fidelity of DCS, and X-plane helicopters. Looking from where they stated BIS devs have done a descent job for a good chunk of the flight envelope particularly for the xH-9 family. Are there issue? sure, ETL still not strong enough in my opinion, left and right cyclic inputs don't actually behave properly on torque, but I really don't care at this point. They can improve those if they choose in the long run. Where I do care is when the correct control input results in catastrophic failure or causing me to crash. That is why I have been harping on behavior of aft and forward cyclic input. The behavior is wrong, and it is getting me killed in game. It's fine if I never do aggressive maneuvering, but this is also military sim. I'm getting shot at, and it's really hard to trade altitude for energy given the current behavior. I like flying in arma because of the really fine detail in the terrain. No other sim gives you that, and in a helicopter you can hug the earth and fly slow to enjoy that detail. Something DCS, and x-plane can't match today. I love following a road at high speed, below treetop level trying not to hit power lines and trees. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It has to do with rotor coning. Taken from the FAA document: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/media/hfh_ch02.pdf. Page 2-15. "The rotor blade rotating about the rotor hub possesses angular momentum. As the rotor begins to cone due to G-loading maneuvers, the diameter or the rotor disk shrinks. Due to conservation of angular momentum, the blades continue to travel the same speed even though the blade tips have a shorter distance to travel due to reduced disk diameter. The action results in an increase in rotor rpm which causes a slight increase in lift. Most pilots arrest this increase of rpm with an increase in collective pitch. This increase in blade rpm lift is somewhat negated by the slightly smaller disk area as the blades cone upward." The first page of basic flight manuvers of helicopters from the FAA also mention inputs and their effect on torque loading. Read page 9-2. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/media/hfh_ch09.pdf "• Left turns, torque increases (more antitorque). This applies to most helicopters, but not all. • Right turns, torque decreases (less antitorque). This applies to most helicopters, but not all. • Application of aft cyclic, torque decreases and rotor speed increases. • Application of forward cyclic (especially when immediately following aft cyclic application), torque increases and rotor speed decreases." This applies to counter clockwise helicopters for left right cyclic movement. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It doesn't feel right. It's cool that it is there, but other than watching the instruments there is nothing telling you that you are in that state. It needs some vibrations, and some audio cue from the rotors. The cut line is very predictable for the Mohawk at least, will it be different for other helicopters, and dependent on load? I didn't try sling loading it. Can you please fix the rotor torque loading, before you even consider VRS. Aggressive maneuvering, and energy management is really hard with the current behavior on the cyclic on rotor torque. Aft cyclic, and G-loading should reduce rotor torque and increase rotor RPM for a given collective setting. Today you can basically descend with 200KMH speed, pull up, and hit a low rpm condition and crash into the ground. The behavior should have been an increase in RPM, some mushing, and then be able to translate that back into a climb without touching the collective. In actuality to prevent a rotor overspeed, I probably would have been increasing collective. Then dumped collective as I pushed the cyclic back forward. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Hopefully they add something like they have in TOH, a set of training exercise that teaches you basic operations of helicopter flight. This a helpful read, particular chapter 09. I'm not trying be sarcastic here, but the Dev's and their internal testers may want a look see on that chapter as well. Basically describes fundamental control inputs and expected behavior. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/helicopter_flying_handbook/ -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I agree the current choppers are too fragile. But if you do that over and over again won't something will eventually break? Don't you have to report it and have the ground crew tear the chopper apart to inspect it if you over torqued it in real life. The current FDM doesn't seem to model rotor overspeed damage. How tolerant are current combat choppers to rotor overspeed? Just curious. We have to report these too in real life if we did this. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
The pluses. The self leveling is gone on a number of helicopters. I didn't try all of them though. The Orca in particular is actually flyable now. Some minor issues. I agree the xH-9 family feels more responsive in general and loving the MH-9 again. But if you look at the XH-9 cockpit there is the airspeed indicator showing the safe speed range along with the cruise speed marker around 125 knots. The sounds of it being stressed appear way before that. The Hellcat has this strong pitch forward tendency. Blackfoot seems a little heavy compared to the Ghosthawk which feels lighter and more responsive. Maybe it's supposed to be that way. Rotor damage. Abusing your rotors can result in catastrophic failure. Although I expect transmission/engine failure instead of rotor flying off, a catastrophic failure is catastrophic failure. But I would like failures we could autorotate from after abuse. My main problem though is rotor torque modeling is still wrong for the main rotor. Also there is no visible rotor torque or RPM gauge so it's hard to predict. Until rotor modeling is fixed and instrumentation to show it, we shouldn't be penalized for it. Hmm I don't find the anti-torque that fragile. I haven't broken it in flight. But I wasn't trying to break it. I'll be a little more abusive next time. Also real life helicopters can take a lot more abuse than the current arma choppers. Rotors aren't as delicate as they currently are in arma. Watch these super stallions. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Yeah, I can't get sling loading to work on a Ghosthawk. I just finished praising the MH-9. But now it sounds like ship instead of a helicopter with that creaking noise. What's up with that violent shaking? Shooting out from the chopper is cool though. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I don't know if it was because I was drinking too much, but I'm finding the MH-9 fun to fly. It still needs the rotor torque loading fixed, but it can power through that incorrect behavior most of the time. Transitional lift effects also need to be more prounuonced as well, but I actually enjoyed flying it around Altis showing off the scenery to a friend. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
To be fair I never filed a feedback tracker for it. Devs seem pretty active reading this thread, so I've only been posting issues here. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It's a bug. I posted it way back on Aug 31st. It goes away if you enable auto-trim. Can any one get an Orca off the ground? I can't. I crash the chopper, and crash the game in the process. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
4.1.1 Rotorlib + Pawnee = no improvements to rotor torque, and RPM modeling. Ugghhh. A G loaded turn or pitch up should not result in a low RPM condition at speed. It should result in a rotor overspeed if anything. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
EXE rev. 126964 (game) The Orca, Mohawk, Hellcat and Blackfoot do have that odd behavior of self leveling when returning the cyclic to center. Because of this they require a fair amount of cyclic to bank right and left. The interesting thing is if you enable auto-trim the effect goes away. The rest of the feedback is with auto-trim off. Thanks for giving Ghosthawk more power. I'm liking it now. It still has a roll tendency to the right. It's not bad, but in my opinion it should be less as it requires quite a bit of left cyclic to correct. It also has some interesting roll effects when yawing, and countering yaw. If the pedals induce a right roll, it can snap roll right because the right roll tendency. MH-9 pedals still seems a little light in hover. The AH-9 still feels better when countering torque with left pedal. Blackfoot could use more yaw authority as someone else has already stated. The rotor torque loading issue is very pronounced on the Mohawk, and AH-9. Most of the other choppers can simply power through the incorrect torque behavior. But these two helicopters are very susceptible to over torque, and subsequent low RPM conditions. The Hellcat wants to pitch down/forward heavily. It also requires left pedal to counter rotor torque, but it is a clockwise rotating so should require right pedal. The Orca is very twitchy, and unstable. It's hard to fly given the self leveling issue. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Oh it isn't the left roll that you have to induce to keep the Ghostwak in hover that I was concerned about. It's the helicopter's natural tendency to roll right that I was criticizing. With the cyclic at its neutral position laterally, it wants to roll right with auto-trim off. So not only do you need left cyclic to correct translating tendency in hover, you needed left cyclic to counter its right roll. Even during forward forward flight you need left cyclic to counter its tendency to roll right. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Wow it really rolls that much? Shouldn't it go away or be less in forward flight though? -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
EXE rev. 126856 (game) Quick test of the new Ghosthawk. It now has a pronounced right roll instead of the left roll(auto trim off). I think it requires a little less cyclic to correct than the original left roll, but still too much in my opinion. Also it's engines seem to have lost power, and is a lot more anemic. The pedal behavior particularly during forward flight is better in general though, but I think it still has a tendency to create a roll effect in hover. Though that may just be due to the right roll bias. -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Wow auto-trim does wonders. Turned it on and it filtered some of the really weird behavior on some choppers. Like the Orca doesn't roll left or right heavily due to collective changes. Ghosthawk roll tendency to the left is much less pronounced. Hellcat still drifts right though, and needs a little left roll to counter. The rotor torque models have been broken since TOH, but on the xH-6 now it is so much more pronounced as it is so easy enter a low RPM state and basically fall out of the sky no matter how fast you are going. I really hope they fix the rotor torque models and not just give it more power so you don't see the RPM drop. BI brought up that we have a transmission that we can damage/destroy in one of the SITREPs. They should at least model proper ways to damage it, and provide working torque and rpm gauges instead of a blinking indicators. I want the tranny to be rip apart because of a rapid left cyclic input while at high speed when near max torque already for example. But I don't want it damage because I simply pulled out of a dive or executed a g-loaded turn resulting in a weird over torque condition. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Yeah, I'm actually in agreement with Worldsprayer, that it is probably a CG thing that is causing the left roll. The tail rotor is probably also off the CG as well inducing more roll as you increase pedal input. Since it is in line with the main rotors it should actually not have a tendency to induce roll with pedal input in hover. So something is off there. Translating tendency does behave correctly if you bring it level with a lot of right cyclic, the Ghosthawk does translate right. Speaking of drifting right. The hellcat has a weird sideforce causing it to drift right, which you need to counter with a left lean in hover. It's a clockwise rotating helicopter so it should have translating tendency to the left as I give it right pedal to counter torque. But even in forward flight it sideslips right. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Now something for you real life UH-60 drivers to ponder. I was trying to figure out why the Ghosthawk rolls left during hover. Part of it seems like the neutral stick position is off. Even in straight line flight it rolled left. I can trim that effect out and in forward flight that left roll goes away. But in hover it always wanted to roll left requiring right cyclic. I also noticed applying more left pedal induced more left roll. Then I noticed something. The tail rotor is canted opposite from a real UH-60. If they actually applied that angle to the model, won't it roll left like it does? -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
The Orca rolls left anytime you drop the collective. You increase the collective it rolls right. It behaves as the rotor, or CG is off laterally. I am actually thinking the CG being off may be the cause of a number of weird unexplained behavior rolling/pitching and translating tendency on a number of helicopters in hover. Are you sure about the anti-torque being in the wrong direction in the Orca? It's main rotor spins clockwise. I have to input right pedal at hover though very slight. Though the input of anti-torque is all over the place on the helicopter depending on collective setting. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Unfortunately this is the probably the result of the FCS dampener in rotorlib. It annoyed folks in TOH too. I had suggested in the helicopter DLC thread that they give us a GUI to control its dampening effect. It's there to filter wild input from players and ideally prevent wild oscillations. It doesn't quite do its job at high speed, and once you get use to your joysticks control sensitivity it becomes annoying as it creates the feeling of an input delay. Quick 1/2 hour check to see if anything improved with dev build 1.27.126674. Is it just me or did the rotor sounds break? I don't hear them anymore. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I just watched Dsylexci's video again. Watched/watched it. Not just listen/watch. You are correct he basically descended so fast, and attempt to power his way of it and ran out of engine power. That is not the correct way to test VRS. He made a big deal out of it I thought he knew what he was doing, and I was mainly listening to his video not watching. You can easily exceed exceed engine power and hit low RPM in ARMA 3 now. Sad thing is it can happen to you off of a 200KMH dive if you pull up/bank too much. VRS does happen in DCS, also in XPLANE. In DCS the way to test is just a steep glide path approach and hold try to hold a high descent rate say 1000FPM, what will happen is you are holding that descent rate and out of the blue a sudden increase in descent. I never really noticed control authority loss other than in the collective, but that is probably hard to model or I can't tell given my joystick. Either way if you don't react fast enough that increase is normally fatal if you are too low to the ground. For me it normally happened, if I was to impatient and landed with a tail wind, and did it to steep and to fast. So in reality it is easy to avoid. Maintain a low descent rate, and land into the wind is what I was always told. So in arma 3, I basically tried to do the same thing. Descend into my down wash, with a high rate and hold it. See if I get an unexplained sudden increase in descent rate, I never got that. So I'm pretty sure VRS is not modeled. Now after reading, and trying to figure out the different between settling with power, vs VRS. I'm confused. What I described above is another form form of settling with power, but caused by VRS? Basically I have power and it is getting eaten by my downwash? So is that settling with power or VRS? -
Advanced Helicopter FDM Feedback
quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I was flying around with an AH9 most of the evening. For a dead hover, I needed my left pedal, and a little back left cyclic, which is correct. The AH9 feels about the same amount of pedal as DCS Huey hover in my setup. I use saitek pedals. The ORCA on the other hand, I wasn't using it all, but last time I flew that was Tuesday. Weird just tested the MH9. You are right I didn't need the pedals. So I went to the AH9, I needed the pedals. Went back to the MH9 all of a sudden I needed the pedals. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It crashes on my machine too. Funny thing is I can land at GRID 027061 on the pier box next to it fine. I landed there first and had to look at your coordinates again. Momentum and inertia do seem off. The low speed modeling I'm mostly okay with other than what I complained about already, and the only thing that really bugs me is the translating tendency being wrong. Its the forward flight stuff. Being able to turn on a dime, Loose 120 KPH in a second and only have the copter over torque and go into low RPM is just wrong. But the sad thing is it some times does this at the wrong times without to much control input from me. -
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quickvenge replied to aluc4rd's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
There is no vortex ring state/settling with power modeled in the game, well I only tried with auto-trim off. If you watched Dslyecxi's video, that is a correct way to test it. I noticed with pawnee it is pretty easy to get into a low rpm/high torque state. You are probably falling out of the sky because you basically don't have engine power and your rotors are no longer spinning fast enough. All the helicopters seem to suffer from this some more than others. There is an indicator for RPM, and torque on the new gauge GUI to tell you when it is happening. But in the pawnee on the instrument panel there is a actually an functioning RPM gauage. It is the below the airspeed indicator in the actual cockpit, and surprisingly it works. There is a torque one too but it doesn't work. How are you testing retreating blade stall? I can't get that to happen either. I start at 1000 meters just to give me space to dive into level, and fly as fast as I can forward. I don't get any roll effect, I've only tried in the Pawnee. Again this is with auto-trim off. I've only been flying the pawnee's and Mi-48. The rest of them have really weird translating tendency in the wrong direction which was driving me crazy trying to land/hover particularly in tight spaces. I was getting use to having the cyclic in the wrong direction and decided to myself it's a muscle memory I would rather not get use too. I'm flying fine with auto-trim off, and I don't even trim. It's weird so I don't use it. I am using an X52 setup, the most important thing is to have no dead zone. There is no true center. It all depends on what your helicopter is doing as to what center truely is. So you have to cross through that deadzone with no nulling effect. I think this is the root of all the control problems folks have with auto-trim off. If folks rely on the center spring to to give you feedback it really screws you up and something you have to unlearn. But the input controls in arma still feel off to me. It's not over sensitivity. I fly with higher sensitivities in XPLANE, than Arma 3 which at this point is more sensitive than a real R22. I haven't pegged it, but unlike xplane and DCS the controls just don't feel natural and predictable.