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rebelvg

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Posts posted by rebelvg

  2. Posted

    Indfor friendly to

    0-Opfor

    1-Bluefor

    2-Nobody

    Did you change also a relation between guer and others in Eden Editor Attributes?

    I always have indi relation to nobody in my framework and didn't have any problems before even when using DAC_Res_Side = 0. But after changing DAC_Res_Side to 2 dac started to act weird (that's why I even changed it to 2, cause i noticed that docs say that if you have indi relation to nobody this should be 2). I wound understand if units stopped attacking someone or used the same waypoints or stuff like that, but groups stopped building-up when you get close to them and we started to hear ai radio chatter, I'm not sure that's related.

  3. Posted

    Can someone help with DAC_Res_Side cause I'm not sure what it really does.

    So the docs says it sets the relation between guer and other forces but isn't that already manager by the mission editor alliance thing?

    Second is that after i changed it to 2 all kind of strange things started to happen and only on the dedicated server.

    First is groups stopped building-up. Second we started to hear some radio chatter of the ai which is DAC sounds afaik.

    I'm not sure how that can be caused by DAC_Res_Side but after I switched it back to 0 dac returned back to normal.

  9. Posted

    It's really fun to make and play missions with this mod.

    We use it sometimes in my community when we want some change of scenery and just have fun with some zombies.

    Really great job, Ryan and crew, so many amazing features and settings allows for so many fun scenarios. And amazing job on the animations and sounds, really impressive.

    • Like 1

  10. Posted

    As someone else mentioned, they help modders and users to know when stuff is broken.  IRL I once drove a car that the brakes failed on.  I wish there was a little pop up message when I got in it that told me they were fucked!

    Exaggeration. No error in arma will ever put your health at danger.

     

     

    Errors shall never be ignored. Every good programmer knows that. Warnings however are another thing, and - oh wonder - warnings get written to the rpt instead of pestering the player. So BI did everything right here. Period.

    Don't put all eggs in one basket. When I code I use IDEs, they show me everything that is wrong with my code. When I play the game, I don't necessarily want to see any errors, well cause it's an immersive first-person game where tension can build up without anyone firing a bullet for an hour.

     

     

    Intrusive pop up = pestering the player -> they pester the addon maker -> error will get fixed or mod not get used -> game will not suffer

     

    Hidden in a report = most players live in blissed ignorance -> addon makers might not fix the addon -> over time your game will degrade into a buggy mess -> BI is blamed

    Theory that doesn't work in practice. Most error pop-ups don't show any relation to any mod. Showing them to the 80% of the players is useless.

    I'll post a few examples.

    http://i.imgur.com/uIrjZKT.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/gzouMeY.jpg

    There's literally no hint for what caused these. I know what caused these, do you think other 80% of the players do?

    Do you know that scripts can call a non-existent class and it will produce an error pop-up? So basically if some mission is trying to access a class that doesn't exist, error pop-up will show. It's not even a mods fault, it can be just a typo, or that class was renamed or removed.

    How are you gonna report something that you don't even know where it came from?

     

    Mods overwriting base classes, mods forgetting to configure cfgpatches required addons section causing all kinds of stuff (stuff that don't even show errors).

    Game will never be error free. Have anyone of you even looked at the any source game console and how it is filled with errors (in fact console like that would be useful as hell in arma, you can open or close it at any time you want)? Have you looked at the source engine source code? It's filled with workarounds and hacks. You're saying about blissed ignorance when in fact you are ignoring one big thing, it's impossible to fix everything, it's not a perfect world. Modders don't owe you anything, developers of the game don't even owe you anything.

     

    I'm not arguing for a standard, I'm asking for an option. For people to choose. Hide all errors, show all errors, show all errors without a pop-up manual close thing. I'm sorry, but players are not potential testers, we're seeing more and more AAA devs using that logic and look what it did to the industry, kickstarter, greenlight, half-finished games that are never gonna be finished and are forever stuck in a greenlight limbo. This is a bit offtopic here anyway.

     

    Why do people even bring performance into this discussion?

    You know you can write a disaster while loop in a non-scheduled environment that will kill all your performance and it will not show ANY errors.

    • Like 1

  11. Posted

    Well, yeah. Adverts on the web wanted to sell you some crap, while the error messages are telling you that something is wrong. Modders have to fix their shit, then you can have that "immersive videogame experience" as the popup error goes away and surprise, the error isn't there anymore either.

    You're being really naive saying that modders HAVE to do anything. Most mod groups don't even accept reports from the forum.

    We are people, errors will always be there. Even in the main game, more likely in the 3rd party content. 95% of them are not game-breaking, just some minor misconfiguration.

    So you think that annoying the player is gonna help? (Only 5% of the players will even consider reporting).

    Recent example would be that "author is not a value" thing, that eden couldn't read an author array from cfgpatches (it's fixed on the dev atm).

    Everytime you save a mission you see that error and you have to close it.

    Which comes back again to the point - if it's not gamebreaking, why show it at all, if it is, well, I guess the player will see that something doesn't work right. Error != not working. I know tons of examples of the code that doesn't produce any errors, but it just doesn't work.

     

    You are being childish here, and you know it.

    That was an exaggeration but it comes down to one thing, both are annoying so people found ways to get rid of them.

     

    To be fair, my first post was a bit of an overstatement, I wanted a discussion on this topic, didn't know it will produce such a backlash.

    Middle ground here is to show config errors in a less annoying way, without clicking close each time, that's all I wanted from the start (well it was in my second post technically).

    • Like 1

  12. Posted

    It's not exactly the same thing...

    And I understand that, all I'm saying that all those pop-up blockers were there to streamline the web experience. Why don't you want the same for the immersive videogame experience?

    If you look to the bottom of that problem, it's the same problem here.

    Do you care what that pop-up on the web-site might say? No. You're here for the article.

    Do you care what that error pop-up might say during the multiplayer pvp firefight? No. You're here for the videogame.

    Well if yes, you always should have an option to enable pop-ups (as like right now every decent web browser has that option).

     

    The only thing I could agree on is displaying config errors in a non-obtrusive way but hiding them completely is silly, even if they can be switched on or off. If you don't want errors to show up, play vanilla Arma 3 on the stable branch and well coded misions

    Vanilla arma has config misconfigurations too, of course it's less but it's there anyway in some cases.

     

    What I wanted to add is that it's a good thing that developers are now aware of the problem as they moved this thread and can decide what to do (if anything).

  14. Posted

    You say that as if it's a good thing.

    The fact that it is disabled by default caused a lot of people to ignore script errors, or be oblivious to them. I argue that the same will happen with config errors if you allow the user to ignore them, and it will weak havoc with interoperability of addons.

    Nothing you can tell me will convince me that is a good price to pay for saving you one mouse click on "close all'.

    Send from my tablet, so pardon any autocorrect bollocks

    You underestimate the power of the default option. If errors will be shown by default only 20% of the players will know that you can turn them off, other just will not bother.

    I'm not arguing for hiding all errors forever for everyone, I'm arguing for more options for the people and for less annoying error outputting.

    Or do you think if config errors are moved to the black-box area or systemChat area is a bad thing too?

    I have no problems with script error box, in-fact I always play with it enabled. Cause I'm a mission maker myself and make missions for my community.

    Why can't we have something like that for config errors? Why is it blocking the UI? Most of the config errors I encountered are not game-breaking at all. But most of them come at the most inconvenient time. Just some value is missing, is it even relevant to be shown at all?

    It will not help if your download is broken, only RPT can help in that case to detect that.

    And now we have even more error pop-ups cause "faulty inheritance definition no longer tolerated by the engine". It was fine before and now it's producing more errors. Isn't RPT enough for this kind of thing?

    People that report stuff (each mod has it's own issue tracker and will NOT accept reports from the forum) are merely 5% of the player base (probably even less). I don't think it's reasonable to force the option on everyone.

  15. Posted

    I disagree. People should always see errors. If you give the option to disable them, then people will not fix them and just tell you to disable the error reporting.

     

    That already caused major headache with missions, if you enabled showScriptErrors you would see how few mission makers actually bothered to check them. Error reporting is there for a very good reason, and it should not be possible to override that.

    The point here is - if you enable. So it's disabled by default, right? Right. Guess have many players even know you can enable that? 20% at most. Guess how many actually have that enabled? Estimate would be 10% tops.

    But at least script errors don't require you to close them everytime.

    Config errors block UI interface and don't stop the game for everyone in the multiplayer, for obvious reasons. So while you're try to close the error mid-game someone may actually shoot you down or you can crash a helicopter cause while landing you got this error and lost control of the helicopter. I don't think it's fair.

    • Like 1

  16. Posted

    I don't like this idea. I've actually never seen a popup error on stable branch, so it's either been on dev (where errors are expected) or when playing with mods (which means the mod wasn't done properly/is bugged).

    In either way, debugging mods and finding their errors would be even more of a struggle when people (=potential testers) would just turn off notifications.

    I think people should decide if they want to see errors or not. Believe me, vanilla has misconfigured things even now.

    Second is that if you have noLogs enabled it will show errors only once per mission. How is it even remotely helpful? 10 other errors can pop-up after the first one, they will never be shown. It's useless.

    Why not print errors in chat? Or in the black box like script errors? Why does it has to be a UI blocking thing that requires you to close it manually.

    It serves no purpose for 90% of the players, in most cases it's even impossible to tell what mod caused it, it just shows some generic base class that doesn't have something or etc.

    • Like 3

  18. Posted

    Ramps is a very interesting topic.

    Of course everyone wants ramps to work. But there's a small problem, if ramps can be opened people WILL try to go inside or driver inside (which is a normal response to a visual clue of an opened cargo bay) which will cause damage to both vehicles.

    Some mods made driving inside of a vehicle possible, it works most of the time, but it's not 100% reliable and can cause a great disaster too.

    I vote for stability, whatever makes it less prone to explosion is better. Inconsistent workarounds always cause unpredictable results.

    Maybe allow ramps opening only in the air just for the visual effect and close when landing.

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