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william516

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Everything posted by william516

  1. I have checked tons of places and still can not figure this out. I went as far as downloading and trying to reverse engineer a .pbo file for the ARMA3 Swat 4 style game. This is on the workshop. It basically attempts to turn ARM3 into the older SWAT 4 game. All im trying to do is get the lighting on downloaded and default police and ambulances to work by AI. I wanted to create an atmosphere of chaos where police have barricaded off many streets of the town for a mission. In the swat mission mentioned above they have vans and the offroad truck with flashing lights. I checked and they had this in the init field: "CIV action ["lightOn", this]; " I tried this in the init of the van and it did nothing. I even changed this to the name of the van example van_1. I cant figure out why this does not work. I looked at the different scripts and could not find a script that dealt with the lighting in the mission. I looked online and found a youtube video showing codes used in an addon car that should work but for the life of me i can not figure out where the car pbo file is in the steam folder or ARMA3. Also cant find the exact truck used in the video. I did notice that the van that the SWAT mission is using is apparently one that is a DLC van. I placed it in an empty VR map and when i walked up to it it said that i could not get in it. Not sure if that makes a difference in lighting or not. I tried also with the default ambulance and offroad truck with light bar. I also tried vehicle animate ["BeaconsStart", 1]; in the init field of multiple vehicles but it did nothing. I replaced vehicle with the vehicle name Van_1. I tried this on the vans and the offroad trucks etc. I must be missing something simple. It can not be that hard to simply get flashing lights on vehicles. The only other though i had was to try and use lighting effects and attach them to the vehicle or another object nearby just to give the scene a red and blue flashing effect. I'm not sure what i would do in that case. I downloaded an editor that works in conjunction with eden editor that should allow me to place effects but when the editor first starts "eden editor" I get error messages referencing the effects editor. I also can not add anything to even after reading the manual. Im still trying to work through that as the editor seems like an awesome tool and idea. Asking for help in explaining how to get the ambulance van, trucks, and police cars lights to work in a SP mission used by the AI. These vehicles are parked, they do not need to move at this point. If this is not possible can some explain how to get a light source to flash red and blue pattern on the scene or buildings so it at least "looks" like there are a ton of emergency vehicles on the scene. I have limited scripting skills but can usually get stuff to work with help over time. Thanks again. i know that the information is a little vague but im not at my computer right now to get all the codes i have tried or the name of the program that allows editing of lightsources and emitters. Bill
  2. Not new to the series of Arma. I started back in OFP and even had ARMA3 installed on an older laptop. The old laptop was an Alienware 17r4 it burned up and was replaced. On the old laptop I was able to play with no problems no stutters or odd behavior. My new laptop is an MSI Ge75 Raider it has a I7-10875H processor with 32G ram, it also has 2080 super graphics card. This laptop more then exceeds ANYTHING that was even contemplated back when this game came out. I used the detect option on the games visual settings and allowed the game to use the optimization settings of ultra. Playing the game with almost vanilla (exception of CUP items, I like the older stuff) the game suffers from 1-2 second random freezes for no reason. Sound, control, and everything freezes and then returns to normal. Game is installed on an SSD as well, checked forums and used ideas such as setting affinity to all cores and process priority to high. No improvement. The mission is on Stratis with ah64 apache, ch47 chinook, etc. No scripting with exception of a few things in the init. Line. Waypoint movement created using eden editor. With these issues the game is damn near unplayable. I'm find it VERY odd that a far more powerful computer is unable to play this game. Hopefully someone has an answer that will allow me to play again. Processor usage on task man. 38-40% GPU usage 40% Thanks for any help Bill
  3. I will try it out with 0 mods and see if this still occurs. Thanks
  4. I have been going nuts trying to figure this out. Working on a mission and this bargate is driving me nuts. All I'm trying to do is get the gate to go up when a BLUFOR unit goes into the trigger. I had no problem with this in the ARM2 realm but it seems that the object itself is already part of the base. Most of the tutorials are dealing with placable objects in the editor. This is actually part of the base. If I'm correct there are three total. I used the editor to get the ID of the object and have tried the following command in a trigger. (position GATE_1 nearestObject 560949) animateSource ["Door_1_sound_source", 1]; //Open =======> this statement here gives an error and will not stay in the trigger I grabbed this script from the website and modified it. This script here is actually returning an error and does not work it all. According to bohemia they are telling us not to use the animate command anymore but rather to use the animatesource command. I have tried the following but am lost now. I created a trigger and set the properties to be repetitive and operated by blufor. I then had named my trigger variable "GATE_!" I placed the trigger right near or ontop of the bargate I'm attempting to operate. I then placed the line above in the Act field I also attempted to use this format as well ACT: (position GATE_1 nearestObject 560949) animate ["Door_1_rot", 1]; ======. These statements work but do not actually open the gate at all DEACT (position GATE_1 nearestObject 560949) animate ["Door_1_rot", 0]; The object ID according to the editor is 560949 It is the gate that leads out onto the Tarmac and runway area of the airfield. I tried other methods using the animate command instead and still had no results. I even created a game logic and tried using the game logic. All attempts seem to do nothing at all. Hoping someone might have a solution. I have confirmed that the bargate in question can be operated and is not simply a static gate. It can be opened via player control. Thank you for any help. Bill
  5. Thanks but i do not see a link to the mission, sorry.
  6. I had a bunch of steam workshop mods loaded and was using them fine in the Eden editor. I had created a missing and had been testing it many time, now all of a sudden when I start up the mission I'm greeted by a screen saying a whole list of things can not be found. My mission shows blank. The map looks that same is it would when you first start off to make a mission. Mind you this worked fine before. I checked to make sure all the mods were selected at the pre loading screen and checked to make sure I clicked launch with mods enabled. I then deselected them all and re selected them all thinking that maybe it would force them to load again. Nothing has changed at all and it appears my mission is now lost. All these mods still show up in the steam workshop folder as well, so I'm at a loss of what to do. I have tried rebooting the computer, verifying the game file integrity (via steam), etc. I have found a few post but these are all dated back to 2016 etc. I tried some of those things as mentioned earlier. Nothing is working. I don't want to uninstall the game and lose everything and if possible i would rather not try to unsubscribe and resubscribe to all the mods. That would suck but if I have to I will do it. I just dont understand how it worked one minute and not the next. Thanks for any help that you can give Bill
  7. I will check but last i saw all the mods i had were still listed and even had a folder. If ONE mod is missing does it cause them all to be bad then?
  8. What mission do i choose. The link takes me to a steam workshop but im not sure what file to try out.
  9. No what you did was perfect for ambient lighting, i was just wondering what it took to get the lighting effects attached to a vehicle. Thank you once again, i will look into the attachto command just to try it and see how it performs.
  10. I wanted once again to say thank you for the help. What i thought would be a simple process is apparently harder then what i thought. It looks like the script you put in is basically turning on a or spawning a light-source and then deleting it using a sleep command between to regulate the pattern. Adjusting the sleep time seems to make things go faster or longer depending on the time set. I never though that you would have to spawn and delete just to make this work. I'm assuming this would make simulating all the different light sources from cars very hard on the computer and frame rates, because it has to constantly spawn and delete. It also appears that these are not attached to the vehicle and therefore will not move with the vehicle and if the vehicle is destroyed they remain working. Is there a way to attach the light-sources to the vehicle so that when the vehicle moves they would also move. what i tried to do did not work and the global attach with 3ditor does not work and causes a CTD. Really sucks because that looked like the easiest way to do things. The other question i had was about shutting the siren down. I noticed that you set the vehicle to "combat" when it switched to combat it shut the siren down and also the vehicle headlights. Is there a way to simply shut the siren off without causing the vehicle to go into combat mode, or should i simply add a sleep command and then set the vehicle back to safe or careless. Thanks once again for all the help, im starting to see how things work and appreciate the time and effort.
  11. Thanks again i will check this out and see what i can come up with and let you know. I appreciate all the help again.
  12. The video above is pretty much exactly what Im trying to achieve with different patterns. The second line of code worked even when copied and pasted. I did however write that in manually. It shows and works correctly. I did notice that it simply seems to flash lights or textures but does not have any surrounding affect. So no matter what it looks like i will need to add light sources to light up the surrounding area. How would i go about taking light sources to work similar to what i see in the video above. I'm assuming it would have to be coded. The 3ditor emitter editor does not work. I tried pressing the INSERT key and i can not add effects. So im stuck using using attachto i guess. Have any good hints. Thanks again for all your help.
  13. Thank you i will give this a try and see if it works. I was trying to use the 3ditor to add light sources but that does not work because i can not press the insert key to add anything. I just tried this and found that the this animate ["BeaconsStart", 1]; code works for most offroads trucks. this code this animateSource ['lights_em_hide',1]; This one does not work and results in a message that says "INIT" with a large exclamation mark in a triangle. I can not enter it. I tried changing this to the vehicle name like van1. Results were the same im not sure what the INIT error is for.
  14. Back in the Arma 2 AO days a script/ module used to exist that allows the player to call medevac and land at a red smoke gernade. This was a module and could be placed in any mission easily. I tried this module in Arma 3 but it did not work anymore, so I was wondering if anyone had another module. I would rather have the Module because it can easily be used for different missions, rather then writing a whole script per mission. If a module is not available i was looking for a script that might work. I have checked the forums and really don't see a FULL answer for what I'm looking for. I have tried assembling bits and pieces and have yet to get it right. The idea would be as follows. Medevac helicopter "Med_heli1" awaiting at the FOB or airbase. Player would activate the medevac call using the radio menu. Once activated the medical helicopter will begin the call. Trigger would have a timer so that the helicopter may not simply spawn or show up. The timer is to give the player the feel of waiting and securing a sight. Our birds are not ready at a moments notice unless it was already in the air. "Med_heli1" would begin the journey to the EVAC site and would await a signal. This signal could be red, green, or Ir strobe as needed. Until the helicopter sees this or this trigger is activated it would orbit the player area to avoid being an easy target. Once the helicopter detects it will land at the smoke, IR, or a suitable location. (Engines stay on and hopefully it doesn't crash) Player can bring the casualty to LZ (helicopter) and it will be loaded onto. Once all wounded has been loaded or helicopter is full it would RTB and await it's next call. (the idea of having the casualties removed vs having them healed instantly is up in the air, I prefer to have the guy off the squad because it is far more realistic and teaches you to really watch what your doing vs run and gun.) (if this was not possible or not wanted the casualties can be healed over a time and returned to the players squad) The other thing would be to LIMIT how many times the bird could be called or to set a trigger that can force the player to secure the LZ and make sure the no opfor is detected. (In real life those birds dont fly into a hot LZ, that LZ needs to be secured and if you lose control or become overrun a hasty LZ would have to be established, they dont want the birds shot down and even though the 9 line has an ARMED escort option it is RARE.) I have tried some of the options using the EDEN editor but it really looks like a mess so I'm assuming script or module would be the only way to make it work and not clutter up the entire map. Thanks again for any help Bill
  15. So one thing that has bothered me from the beginning of the ARMA series was the lack of commands for firefight formations or simple combat drills. For anyone that is in the service and has served will understand what I am saying, and for those that are not I will try and explain it. One of the biggest gripes and hopefully one I would like to solve is a formation for security. Say for example a medevac helicopter is inbound to your location and you need to pull security. In a real world mission the soldiers would take a 360 degree formation of protection. A basic circle that keeps all sectors covered. This also allows the team leaders, squad leaders a chance to check on their solders. During this check a we look for casualties and find out status of ammo, equipment and mission important data. To do this in the game requires that the leader point to each and every spot he wants a soldier to go to. Real life this is NOT needed, each soldier knows his job and adjust as needed to provide that layer of security. Was wondering if anyone knew a way to get a formation like this? Example player gets to location with a squad of ten soldiers. player needs to secure a site after a engagement. Player can go to the radio menu and choose "360 Security" (or something easy to identify to click on) With that an order will be issued that all AI controlled soldiers will move out and away for the location that the player is and set up a 360 degree area of protection, each looking out in the correct compass direction and remain facing that way, the AI would be in kneeling or prone position as well. (Not sure if this is possible or not but have an adjustable range or diameter of the circle, also AI troops would use common sense and find cover while still trying to obtain 360 security) All AI would stay put and not move unless engaged or directed by player to rejoin formation. This allows the player to check all soldiers or simulate. (In the real world a team would be designated as aid and litter (would provide aid to enemy and friendly casualties) the other team would be EPW (collect and secure enemy prisoners and weapons etc)) Another thing is simple battle drills Player gets in a firefight or engagement player uses the radio menu to order a battle drill formation Clicking on the specific battledrill will execute that. If the player has designated teams example (red, yellow, blue...etc) the battle drill would execute a script that would allow something like this........ Start of mission Player designates 3 members of the squad (team blue) Player designates 4 members of the squad (team red) player gets into an engagement and becomes pinned down (Team blue under fire by opfor) Player uses radio menu to select battle drill 1A Script or some other means executes this based on what team the player wants to move. Team Red breaks contact and moves to a flanking maneuver position on the opfor firing position Team blue continues a suppressive fire on the enemy while team red gets to flank position. Team blue continues fire and shifts and then lifts fire while Team red assaults from the flank. Team blue moves up and clears objective after team red has gone through. After all this is completed and the enemy has been killed or surrendered the 360 security is set up. Not sure if anything like this exist already but it would be great if it was a possible. It would allow the player the opportunity to issue commands that real soldiers would understand. It would not require the player to micromanage the team. It is not realistic at all to tell each soldier exactly where to go and what to do. Now the AI in Arma3 is leaps and bounds over ARMA and ARMA2, but these items would really help to push reality of the battlefield. Hope someone can help with this or point me in the correct direction. Bill
  16. Thanks I have been working with this and a few other things but so far no real luck in getting what i want. The Eden editor works great for some things BUT a huge problem is how fast it can get cluttered and unlike some other editors or programs I don't beleive it has a filter on it. So for example if I just want to see the blufor side i click on something and it only shows information related to what i want displayed and hides the other. This leads me back to scripting and I'm not that great with it. The other thing I noticed from ARMA 2 OA to this new editor is, I dont get the same information like i used to when placing my mouse over an object ect. I used to get the script info, the unit name, and basic parameters. This all is missing and forces me to double click on things just to find out what the unit name is. Maybe I am missing something who knows. Thanks look forward to seeing what you have going on in your missing as well. Bill
  17. I'm taking a look at that script and I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do with it. Is it simply in the init part of the mission or is it called for from a trigger? I will look at that and see unless someone who has it working can chime in on this. Another thing i was trying to look into was using or modifying the support for transport helicopters. This is a function that is built into the game for arti support etc. Does anyone know if that script can be viewed and modified to work with, or are the support functions built into the game and can't be changed. In REAL life medevac would fall under SUPPORT anyways. You would be notified of this information prior to leaving the wire. It would fall under service and support. So the correct place should be under the support options. If i could simply modify the support script for the ai game logic i may be able to work with this. Bill
  18. I will take a look at that and see what I can play with. Here is a general question though, what is the difference between a script and a module when it comes to game play? Bill
  19. I'm not a complete noob when it comes to the basics of mission making and limited scripting but I'm running into a huge problem with the newest release of the RTE (real time editor) and capture program. I installed it per the earlier directions and then had to tweek the command line to point it to my correct directory. I have it installed but not in the newest way where it is located in the mydoc/user/arma 2 folder. I am able to run the program fine. I place my player down. Save the mission as USAFOB. Exit the whole thing and then launch it from the RTEcapture program. It will load up fine I go to edit my mission and then preview. Press escape in preview and click on the RTE button. So far so good. Build my fob and then go to save my project in the project menu. This is where things go odd. I type my project name a short description and then click save. After a few minutes I get message that say DLL not injected. So the project save does NOT work. I then click select all and export both as regular and template. I exit the RTE after a few minutes and then alt tab to see if the information has been recieved in the RTE Capture program. The information has been recorded properly and it shows all the objects. The template folder also shows the saved template. I think everything is good until I try and merge with mission sqm. This tab of the RTE capture window does nothing at all. It is not letting me choose the file to merge with or even opening the window. I tried the menu function of merge with mission sqm, but recieved the same results. Now my only option is to create a sqf file. I tried to create a sqf file and nothing happened. I then tried to copy the text from the sqf tab into notepad. I pasted it into notepad named the file USAFOB.SQF. I saved that file and placed it into my mission folder. Then i tried to use a command to call it from the init. line of the player. [] execVM "USAFOB.sqf" Upon loading the preview of the mission I have a brief pause but then nothing is placed on the map. I'm very confused as I know it has to be something I'm doing wrong. I put alot of work into the fob that I was working on and now it looks like all is lost. I have it saved in RTE capture as a xml file, sqf file, but could not get it merge with a mission sqm file. Is there a way to save this and see it in my mission or have I lost everything. Just a note I started a small project over again and the RTEcapture program is doing the same exact thing. I can not save a project or merge. I have made sure the the RTEcapture program is running admin mode as well as I know that windows 7 creates a problem with access writing to program files. Thanks in advance for any help. Also can you reload a .xml file or convert it so that it is not all lost. The only other option I can think of is to reinstall the RTE and try again. Bill
  20. This is a new idea and seperate training aid that i am trying to figure out hopefully without using a ton of scripts. The idea is to show just how dangerous it is when someone you thought was friendly will turn against you. Something that is happening all too often overseas right now. I have figured out how to make a trigger fire off at random prob. but now i can not figure out how to get an ANP to turn against blufor. Here is what was suggested but does not seem to work. I created a mission with nothing more then a few blufor units one being the player "griffen1" then several units set from blufor menu as Afghan army named anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4 I created a radio trigger to test the effects and be sure the trigger is firing "radio alpha" Radio alpha will then set [anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] doFire griffen1. This does nothing at all, unit just continues to follow waypoints same setup changed trigger to (anp1) addRating -10000 (did this for all anp units Player and blufor units will shoot the second the trigger is tripped anp units do not fire a shot same setup tried grouping an enemy officer (opfor unit) and setting prob to 0 no trigger just to see results as per the "side relations" discussion on the site Result was that the units did nothing again. It wasn't until the officer actually showed in the mission that the units opened fire on the blufor units "griffen1 Almost seems that is the leader is not present the anp units do not group to the officer. I'm looking for a way to get the anp units to turn and fire on ANY blufor unit that it comes in contact with until the new enemy is killed. This will happen random based on a trigger that i will be setting. I have been reading that setfriend is NOT a good way to go. Hopefully someone has played around with this and can help. I also tried join and lead using a synched waypoint with the enemy leader being set to prob. of 0% and again it did nothing. Any help would be great. I will keep playing around and maybe stumble across something, if i do i will let everyone know. Thanks again bill
  21. Ok again thanks for the help but im a little lost on the code you used and how it was obtained. I attemped this code by creating two groups on blufor (player) another blufor ANA/ANP (to turn bad). They are assigned waypoints to meet in the middle. then a radio trigger alpha to trip trigger. (this ensures it fires off) instead of "red" i substituted in "anp1", instead of badgroup i used "opforoff1" (assuming this was the bad guy according to your script) Sleep time i left the same and even changed it to 10. Nothing worked when the trigger was tripped. They stood around and watched each other it appeared that there was a motion to engage but nothing was actually done. Do i need to set a group name. I'm very confused. For units i have each group "grouped together" via the blue line. in the leader i added "anp1 = group this" This should make all units group with anp1 if needed in a script correct? I'm sorry im now more lost but will keep working on it.
  22. Another little update on the progress or lack of progress on this. I created another mission again using the blufor units and ANA/ANP's. I also added some indep units with a few locals. Then i placed my squad as a group and me as a sub. under command. I set the ammo of my squad to 0% Anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4 are all grouped together, then via trigger it would make them set to "opforoff1" this is the officer with prob of prec. set to 0%. The "opforoff1" is given the rank of LT. The independent faction unit names are ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5 then there are two civilians with civ1, civ2 Experiment 1 with green on blue fire Anp1, Anp2, Anp3,Anp4 set to trigger alpha"radio" Trigger has in it [anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join grpNull;[anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join opforoff1; Results: The trigger fires and the anp's do nothing, even when fired at they simply crouch to the ground and if i do fire at them i am warned the im firing on friendlies Experiment 2 Same set up as the first, trigger has been changed trigger has in it: [anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join grpNull;[anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join opforoff1;(anp1) addRating -10000;;(anp2) addRating -10000;(anp3) addRating -10000;(anp4) addRating -10000; Results: Trigger activated and my team will tell me to target and fire at the anps. If they had ammo they would shoot to kill. Anp's still do nothing at all. Color of the unit on the map changes from green to orange. When firing on the anp units. I am not warned and told to fire on each unit. Experiment 3 Same setup with anp units. Added ind units ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5. Triggers has in it: Resistance setFriend [WEST,0]; [anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join grpNull;[anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join opforoff1; [ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5] join grpNull; [ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5] join opforoff1; (ind1) addRating -10000; (ind2) addRating -10000; (ind3) addRating -10000; (ind4) addRating -10000; (ind5) addRating -10000; (anp3) addRating -10000; (anp4) addRating -10000; Results: By far the most interesting and funniest to watch. Lets just say a firefight free for all. All ind units took a few steps once the trigger was activated and turned and shot one another. Ind units that survived this turned and shot at the anp's and also my squad. Close to the results i was looking for except the whole slaughter of the ind units. I'm assuming that the addrating -10000 is what caused the whole firefight to occur. My unit attempted to engage but again did not have ammo just for the test. Experiment 4 Same test as test 3. Trigger has in it: Resistance setFriend [WEST,0]; [anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join grpNull;[anp1, anp2, anp3, anp4] join opforoff1; [ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5] join grpNull; [ind1, ind2, ind3, ind4, ind5] join opforoff1; (ind1) addRating -10000; Results: The slaughterfest was not as bad but confirmed my susp. on the addrating -10000. The first units to be shot were ind1. My group did nothing as they were shot to death by the other ind units. I was never ordered to fire and on this expermiment i also gave my team some ammo. Not a single shot. The map showed all ind units that were firing at me as orange. THe ind units shot and killed all the anp's the anp's did not fire a shot to protect themselves. This is driving my crazy So far no luck with the test. It seems that if the addrating -10000 is not used the units will fire and kill every unit and still remain friendly. If the addrating -10000 IS used the units will see eachother as a threat even if on the same team and kill each other. I will try and group them together prior to grouping them to the opforoff1 and see if that changes the kill everything attitude. Hopefully someone can help me with this problem. Any takers lol? I will keep playing around and see if i can figure something more out. Bill
  23. Update....im starting to think that it may be a problem with the ana/anp units. I created a group of ind. Units and set each one first. Tried out the mission. They did not fire at me. I then edited my trigger so that the units would first be grouped to null and then to anp5 (the enemy soldier set to prob 0%). The trigger is set via radio alpha. The second the radio was triggered the ind units began firing at my squad. However according to the map and ai they were not red or considered an enemy. Could prob fix this with a setrating command. Still playing around with this. What is the chance that a restriction is put in the game that says blufor may not fire on blufor atleast the ai can not be made to fire. Bill
  24. Ok i tried the first approach before and unless i was doing something wrong the only time it worked is if the unit was physically able to be seen. Once they joined his group they opened fire on the blufor units. The second i added the prob. set to 0% they no longer functioned at all. They stood around looking stupid and if i fired on them i was warned that i was shooting friendly units. I also tried adding the command "deleteVehicle this" into the anp5 (opfor officer control) init script. It did the same thing as the above example. It seems that the only time they follow orders and join the group is if the unit can be physically seen. "Wouldn't work ANA/ANP are BLUFOR... although it seems like the mod author should start reconsidering if things keep up ... Interested to see this, though. Have you tried grouping an OPFOR officer to the units using a trigger? Says you tried grouping without a trigger above." He is right the ANA/ANP are considered and grouped under blufor and maybe thats why i cant get them to attack another blufor unit. I have not yet tried the same with the indep. faction to see if it makes a difference. The goal is to make this happen with a random trigger just like the vbied i have on another test mission. In other words you may run the mission many times and only one time does the anp unit attack your unit while in a briefing or something unexpected. Again designed to be used as a training aid for our unit once i get it right and recorded. I have also tried a trigger with the command for dotarget dofire commands and it looks like the units attempt to fire but they never can. they never even raise their weapons. This was in the trigger act area and the trigger set to radio alpha. So far nothing i do seems to work correctly. It may be worth it to set them as indep units and then use the setfriend command but there are all sorts or warnings about this causing problems. Thanks again and i will try a few more things. It cant be this hard to do something that should be so simple. Bill
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