sportpilot

That is a BIG!! +1

sure - but we have high hopes for the future :)

See, there you go. Same principle applies here. Firts Get the original FM down as good as you can and THEN go into the Controller Settings ;-) ---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ---------- thanks we do our best ;-)

well then you did it all wrong ;-) Rule No 1 always get your servo travel angle and so forth setup as good as you can and THEN go into Controller Settings. E.g. Dual rate and trimm and so forth... ---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 ---------- Exactly, can you imagine what would happen to the Fuselage if you WOULD be able to throw a 11 Ton Gunship around like a piece of Paper in the wind? It would probably tear off the tail in a second.

Yes it would be the perfect solution for now... if it really was possible to edit the point of top out. But it isnt. Having an increasing response curve is somewhat difficult because it will catch up with you eventually... meaning the full deflection will come very rapid during flight = not so good. But believe me I have played back and forth with these settings that I can do for hours. Linear response with no deadzone should provide the best results. The FM should be your first adress rather than the Controiler setup : This should really be for fine tuning. In an RC Model you will also always solve everything that you can mechanically and as a last resort go in your RC Controller and Servo Settings to finetune.. For the time beeing I did help myself with a slightly progressive response curve and a tiny bit of deadzone... but like I said it tends to catch up at the most unwanted time of flight... Also the other Helos are fine, its really just the Hind and I dont want to keep changing settings if I switch my Helo. But maybe BI can implement function where you can limit the max controller deflection. With this and an editable XML I would be happy.

Max Power thanks for the info. But pls. pls. understand I am not(¨) talking about the Stick. Well, at least in my setup the Stick does NOT control the Tail Rotor wich in my Sim is responsible for the over amount of Yaw during hover. The Cyclic is fine for the moment, not perfect but o.k. no trouble there. I am and have always been talking about Yaw as the major showstopper.... Errrr and the frames are fine I cant bare with frame trouble because I need a 100% fluid experience in order to fly with a certain feel for the bird. But nevertheless I will go and checkout the other threat. @Armored_Sheep any plans to unlock the XML of the Hinds FM to allow for editing?

ohhh :O I see. No offence meant really, BUT this explains a lot. The two of us appearently have a totaly different understanding of Virtual Reality, Immersion and Realsism. I would NEVER use anything like this. Its like a game and robs every Sense of immersion, at least for me. PLUS the Overlay still does not have a turn coordinator. ;-) Thus it does not solve the issue of a missing MINIMAL Instrumentation. Mind if I ask you: Do you even know what a turn coordinator is? I just read the article on the Hind posted here earlier and I dont know what the poster is trying to say with it... But boy what can I say. I think its time to speak very clearly about what it says there...Because it seems to reflect pretty much EXACTLY what I am saying. Within the article it states "the directional control is insufficient"! Insufficient, guys o.k. - in case you guys do not understand what this means in aviation terms... it means it is NOT very responsive...it does not react very fast and has no huge range in motion. In other words: It is SLOW in directional control. It does not mean it is OVERSENSITIVE: NO, that would be the EXACT OPPOSITE. What they are saying is: If there is a stong wind gust, sometimes a full press on the pedal would not be able to conquer the threat, or not fast enough for that matter! This is what this means. The Hind even tended to go into a spin because of that, and there was no way of avoiding this by aplying oposite Pedal as you would if your AC is about to enter a spin... Also loosing 200 meters after pulling from a "dive" of 20 deg, does not exactly point toward a very fierce bahaviour in pitch either. To be honest; just what I would expect from a bird this size. It is not an RC mini Chopper after all. I believe that I have sufficient knowledge/experience to make the statements that I make here. I am profesionally involved in the Aviation Industry and develop Cockpit Software for a pretty well known german Airline...and before that I was involved for many years professionally in Flightsimulation Software and Flightsimulators. Next to my daytime job I run my own Simulator company I have a brand new State of the Art Airbus A320 Simulator that is currently undergoing the certification process as FNPT II and I own a Cessna C-172 Full Motion Sim that is currently certified as BATD and later FNPT I. If you want to catch a ride goto: www.flightdecksystems.de or visit us on the Aero in Friedrichsghafen starting today, we have the stand together with Sennheiser and we have one of our Sims in a Truck with us. Trade show is on until Saturday. Come to the stand approach the dude with the dark hair and the Name initials FW and say: The HIND FM sucks and you will get a free ride :-) And I am a Flightsim Enthusiast that has always been on the quest for the ultimate in realism. I mean how much enthusiasm I have may be appreciated from the fact that I am constantly writing into this forum in order to improve the FM of one of my many Home Flight Simulators, although my time household does not allow for too many hobbies.... So I remain with my opinion: The FM is off, way off. You see, I mentioned before if BI would not claim to have a 90% replica of the real bird I would not be writing this. For the other choppers you cleverly avoided to be compared with the real helos because although everyone knows that the light resembles the Hughes 500. You do not call it the hughes 500 and you changed the location of the horizontal stabilizer and some other minor details. So nobody can come and say: hey it does not fly like a hughes 500, yes beacuse it isnt a hughes 500. Clever. Very Clever! But now BI has gotten as far as to actually create a "simulation" of a realworld Chopper, The Hind, AND it claims to be as realistic as it gets. So at this point BI has to accept the fact that they are not fullfilling their promises. Because while a Hind will look like your Hind from the outside it lacks the Systems the FM and even critical Intruments, yes you guessed it: e.g. the turn coordinator. :rolleyes: To be precise and constructive as a first measure BI should cut down the Yaw response to about half and the max deflection angle to about two thirds. Or tell me where I can do this. Hey, MAX Power are you even the right guy to talk to about this? I am starting to get the feeling that you are doing tech support for the game rather than having any word in the dev. especially with respect to the FM. And I am writing and writing and nothing happens... Are the FM developers even reading this? To finally cut a bottom line: Is BI not willing to do anything about it??... or at least maybe tell me how I - as a user - can fix this problem (maybe in a config file or something) If you are not willing to do anyhting, let me know thats fine, because then I can use my time for something else and will not bother you guys anymore...

the overlay? What do you mean by that? can you pls fill me in... thnks

Hey MAX Power, any comments on the Intrument issues I mentioned b4?

well, yeah sure... its a known fact that the human body tolerates positive g about 5x better than neg g - but still the 109 where fuel injected to allow for exactly that - neg acceleration. ln combat you will try about anything to shake you visitor on your 6. but whenever the english pilots pushed on their stick the merlin would stutter and even cut out. this is why they used the split s anytime and more prominent than the germans. so invented is probably not the right word. but the first wide spread use must be credited to the island guys..

yes its called a Split S and was originally invented by Spitfire Pilots I believe, because the carburators would not work under Neg G forces. In Order to rapidly change Altitude they Split Sst instead of pushing the Stick ffwd...

hon0 you fly in Freeflight, right? And we did mention, that the prob occurs only in the "Challenges" in "Expert" mode remember? ;-) So this particular Vid is pretty useless for this particular conversation. Nothing to do with your flying skills, ok? Here is another challenge for you since you seem to enjoy this so much. Take the Hind from cold and dark in a challenge in Expert mode, take off, hover for 30 Secs, then fly forward and accelerate to about 120kts and climb to 4000ft, next pull up roll inverted and dive down and recover from this manouver b4 you hit the ground ;-) BTW: I did not say that I cant fly the Hind or it is not possible to fly it, that is NOT the point. I am saying that the FM is off. Way off, to be precise. I would not be writing this if BI would not claim that their FM is 90% comparable to the real deal. If they say we have this nice little helo game that contains a hind and flies pretty nice, no need to share any further words. Its a game and lets master it. Fine. But this is NOT the case. I mean, For instance I am asking myself how anybody can actually fly these birds even semi realistically if NONE! of them even have a functioning turn-coordinator. You will never even now if you are slipping and sliding around ;-) Ohh and speaking of instrumentation: How are you supposed to find your waypoints in the Heavy Helo. The ADF needle in the Heavy doesnt point to the next WP like in the other Helos. There are only some cam gadgets available but nothing substantial that will allow to navigate in a at least semi realistic manner - If you are not implementing real Navaids and use this pseudo ADF/NDB Nav thingy, thats fine. But pls at least make it consistant for all helos. Anyways, I think it IS time to react for BI since there is enough evidence pointing towards a too twitchy behaviour in yaw for the Hind when operating in Expert mode. Also every helo should at least have a working turn coordinator. The absence of such a cruical Instrument and the way off Flightmodel point toward the fact that the FM does not (properly? or at all?) calculate the required data refs to be displayed in an instrument. And this is not acceptable if you make such big "we are soo realistic" claims. Speed, Altimeter/VSI, HSI, artificial Horizont and! Turn Coordinator are the minimum instrumentation for everything that flies. What do you say BI? Hands up whoever agrees at least on the yaw issue, pls. Thnks

so guys bottom line, are you planing to change anything with the FM concerning the Yaw behaviour... more mass inertia, or someting like this...???

I actually did try Black Shark right from the get go and I love it - just like the A10C - also a great Sim. I am also planing to upgrade to the latest version of the Balckshark. But I always thought that the Heli feels almost too easy, too smooth to fly. Probably also due to the Koax Setup. But it flies like a piece of rock stable smooth and great!! Exactly what you would expect from a machine this size... Altough... I always thought the Trick about the Ka-50 is the System Depth and not so much the Flightmodel... What do the Ka-50 Experts say? The AAA Apache for instance flies almost by itself, which is great fun... but it lacks Vortex Ring state and other aerodynamic effects like Rotor Stall in Overspeed and its also very hard to roll. Nevertheless a great and fun to fly chopper with nice graphics. This is what I mean guys. I have a lot of experience with Sim Helos. I fly X-plane since V7 and the Helis there. Which is o.k. a little to prominent effects from Hover to forward flight but o.k. Autorotation works and it feels fine. I fly MSFS since FS 2000 and their Helis. I believe they are mostly crap the Dodosim Jetranger is o.k. but apart from this, there isnt much flyable material. I own just about every Game/Sim that deals with Aviation in some way. And I have been flying for real since `97. And now I have come to the point where I just dont buy the reality of the Sim (in this case the Hind) it just doesnt seem to fit in with all my prvious experience and what I expect. I have also of course been trying to change the Joystick settings and changed curves back and forth. BUT I was wondering if there is a specific! recommendation for specific! Hardware. The generall possibility to change the respond curve is understood in every sim, there is nearly no Sim without this option. I tried the Hind again yesterday and managed to pinpoint my main area of concern. It seems way too yaw friendly. I mean you barely touch the pedals (with a linear curve and the Saitek Pedals) and the thing vioilently yaws out of control if you are not careful...for my feeling way too fast and way too quick this is not what I would expect from such a big and Heayv Bird. There has got to be some sort of mass inertia effect. It feels too light. My RC Helicpter reacts like this, o.k. fine but a several Tons heavy Gunship???? I still just dont buy it...

yes, I know, I did avoid the word Dynamic Stability for a reason and said "a certain stability"... Real Helos need a sufficient input to make them roll to either side, in TOH it takes a tiny input and of they roll like there is no tommorow :-). I am not saying this isnt fun to fly for instance in the Hughes 500 type Helo (the Light) its kind of cool to fly hands offf with just pitch and pedals something that you probably couldnt do in the real Hughes - but I dont know... Anyways, maybe I have the wrong settings for the Joystick/Pedals? What are your recommendations? Are you supoosed to use the same value for all choppers? You see I manage top fly all TOH Choppers just fine and they feel GREAT (think I said that before) Its only the Hind that is giving me some headache... @Smokin`Hole Great advise anywayss I will probably just do exactly that, enjoy it as it is and take it as a new challenge.