shobhit

@Baff1 Im assuming that you're from the UK. because someone else did mention it before. Now the UK has not seen an insurgency or terrorist activity on a scale as large as India has. Yes you have had severe problems with internal security but India has had bigger problems and for a longer period. You have a mild fever whereas we have cancer ;) It is a big issue for us. The extremist networks backed by ISI and China also support internal dissidents in the NE regions of India. It is in our best interests to dismantle this network. you can't do anything about lighting strikes can you? but its a different matter when it comes to terrorism. ---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ---------- @Tvertne Thanks for taking the time to go through the thread, it is long isnt it? 1. Apparently an advisory role will not suffice 2. True India has a tremendous lot on her plate...including her national security and state of affairs with Pakistan which is just a nuclear disaster waiting to happen with such a dangerous presence of islamic extremists in the country. I guess the Border issues with pak and terrorism are major issues here in India, is a fact lost to the other countries. 3. Yes it would speed it up. NATO forces along with India could pressurize Pakistan into taking more credible action. Yes, we did have a major flood in India and thank you for your help :) but we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves in times of natural calamities. besides SF units dont really play much of a role in disaster management and community development. 4. As for experience in Guerilla warfare...the Indian army is arguably the MOST experienced, probably after the Pakistani armed forces, in guerilla operations....both sides of it. It has trained Guerilla forces to great success (Tibetan SFF and The Mukti Bahini) and has also tremendous experience in fighting against a guerilla army. So there.

Kindly see earlier posts regarding the benefit to India.

Not doing something also counts as helping. You Think I was talking about Taliban becoming a superpower? I was actually worried about it supporting other extremist networks and ramping up operations in my country. Clearly you are unconcerned with terror attacks and don't care about a nation's internal security.

@Macadam True the Taliban provided a semblance of unified governance. But consider this, if the US had not invaded Afghanistan and allowed Taliban and Al Qaeda influence to grow unchecked wouldnt it be strengthening an already powerful religious extremist group? the scale of attack would have grown and also the frequency. This would directly increase Islamic Militancy in India, and this makes us our fight, sooner or later. I 100% agree with you in that the US needs to hand over the fighting to the ANA. As I believe that terrorism or not, this is an issue of Afghanistan and the people need to do something about it. But before doing that it needs to hand them over a stable country and let them mop up and if need be continue fighting. The situation in Ira is similar but much worse because there the people themselves don't want the US there, classic case of insurgency. The US needs to rapidly establish a strong Law & order body there. As for "fighting for freedom" I agree that it's horseshit. Any country generally does not intervene in foreign matters unless its offers the said country a massive strategic advantage. And I disagree about the point that we can't outlast them, historical precedents are always broken and new ones constantly formed. It is possible but not very probable.

True. We should not overlook China as MASSIVE consumer market.

XD LOL!!^^ Totally agree. "hey! please come in" "why thank you, heres a bullet for you, wherdya like the head or the heart, abdomen...?" You do not politically decapitate a country you are assisting Now could all of you settle your argument regarding a "peaceful, non-violent" Russia. ---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ---------- If you don't mind my asking but where are you from?

Original Ghost Recon did not have brilliant AI but in some instances of sheer awesomeness outshone others. The flanking maneuvers and the buggers launching GP-25 grenades! loved the *ZIP thunk sound of the bullets going by Freedom Fighter a TPS squad based game had some excellent AI, both friendly and enemy. The enemy reaction to a sniper attack was amazing. Snipe an officer at a guard post and every one takes cover. You see the russians calling each other and actually MOTIONING their comrades to check move forward. They would dart about cover carefully raising their head and there would be one or two lone grunt advancing stealthily in a half crouch towards your position...headshot! repeat above. That game was fun solelly because of good AI and solid controls. Crysis AI was pretty good in some instances especially when in the jungle, they would display human reaction. Cloak your self and launch hit and run attacks and they would fan out in line formation and do a sweep towards your last known position. It is amazing to play cat and mouse with them in the Jungles. In the urban areas....not so much. FEAR had awesome AI too but yeah they were limited in their range of actions as all AI are. Star Wars republic commando had awesome AI...fantastic combat. Some trandoshan enemies would actually Kick any grenades thrown at them right back at you and the squad AI was brilliant no pathfinding issues here and they truly felt like elite commandos. Gem of a game I think Half-Life AI in the US Commandos during the latter half of the game is simply the best I have come across yet. They were RUTHLESS,REMORSELESS,RELENTLESS mothers! They would go all out to destroy you. Chuck grenades if you are hiding (and these guys had an infiniteamount of frags), melee you if you get close and plug you in the face with SMG rounds. They always tried to gain a tactical edge, remained behind cover (especially when reloading, if there were a pair of em, one would reload while the other fired!) and generally made life living hell for us. Respect to Gordon Freeman for going thorugh all of those Badasses.

Trade sanctions against China is the second worst idea after Justins Bieber's Mom and Dad thinking of having kids. Almost all of the major manufacturing plants of western brands and companies are in China. There are massive manufacturing "districts" where the workers of the plants live and work (China's ability to mass mobilize is awesome). Impose sanctions on China and risk running your own corporations to the ground. To actually muscle in on China, the whole manufacturing base would have to slowly shifted and divided between other countries (provided they are ready) but I doubt China would allow that. Chinese Hackers is just a small part of the puzzle in their goal for information supremacy. Cyber warfare reminds me of the 1st splinter cell. Good times :)

No tiket, I am and Indian citizen for the past 2 decades. My father was in the IA for 24 years. It is very easy for us to say that the west will not understand our POV. Instead we should help people to understand it. And nobody has mentioned anywhere in their posts that India requires assistance or needs help. So I do not know where you're getting all that from. Yes I do remember the US carrier off the coast of Bengal in '71, but the geopolitical climate has changed would you agree? And I have said this once and saying it again, I am aware of India's current stance on Afghanistan but I am talking about YOUR opinion on a hypothetical situation! Are you supporting the thread's topic are are you against it. It is clear that you do not support any Afghanistan venture but can you give any ORIGINAL arguments to support this. Thanks. ---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ---------- A very haunting and chilling speech regarding the nature of extremists. But I disagree. Are you telling me that we cannot outlast them? To completely cut off extremists strong steps need to be taken to isolate them from their recruitment pools, i.e. population centres with unemployed and uneducated youth with no opportunites. Infrastructural developments in the form of schools and hospitals and job oppurtunites to offer them a decent source of income and security from extremist violence will not only deny the militants manpower but may also *cheese bomb alert* win the hearts and minds of the people. Also stepping up operations to cut off financial aid would be a major setback to the extremists. Dismantle cover groups and shell companies raising money. Use US-Saudi ties to clamp down on wealthy sheiks backing extremist groups. Destroy the poppy fields. Resettle the farmers and give them new jobs (how?) and most importantly....deal with Pakistan. It will require tremendous will-power, effort and time but we can win, just dont "take the foot of their throats" The US public needs to realise that it'll need to tighten up it's stomach and try to outlast the religiously motivated groups, simple as that but a very hard thing to achieve. A democratic country is run on Public opinion. ---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ---------- Another point in favour of India's involvement is that it's intelligence agencies may find it easier to infiltrate terrorist cells due to ethnic and cultural similarities. The general lukewatm relations between Afghanistan and India may also make it easier for the Locals to co-operate with Indian agencies. ---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ---------- Please let's make this a "World Invader 2010" contest. Both countries have been involved in certain operations which can be called as "assistance" or an invasion under false pretense, almost every nation tries it or has done it at some point in it's history. ---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ---------- The average working class man in India can support himself regarding healthcare. Indian healthcare system though not a welfare system is pretty efficient. Besides the Government has earmarked funds for military operations so that it does not hurt the pockets of the common people. Long term operations can be sustained by these funds especially if they are LOW INTESNITY ANTI-TERROR OPERATIONS in tandem with other countries. And what point is saving one persons life when the next day 12 gunmen storm another city in some other country and kill 250 people. I value Human life above everything which is precisely why we need to step up the tempo of operations. ---------- Post added at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ---------- @ Derk I am not only considering Afghanistan as a theatre of operations. Pakistan and other mid-east countries come into play. When you mention cooperation within the international state and police forces I wholeheartedly agree, but that is just a prevention! the threat is still at large. I want to roam around safely in my city I want to get rid of full body scanners and meticulous and long body searches whenever travelling abroad I want my country to stop spending billions on defense forces to keep them holed up as a cork on the northwestern borders

The cost of fighting a war for more than 2 years does not daunt us because in the end the dividends will be massive.. If we spend 100 million dollars per year for 3 years i.e. 300 milion dollars right now to fight extremism and save 300 million a year for the next 10 years due to the savings from de-militarizing Kashmir and disbanding PM forces then we will infact profit from our present engagement. You have to think long term it's not about saving a few dollars of tax money it's about thinking about our Nations future and internal security. If it takes 10 billion dollars to safeguard my Nation from further attacks like the 26/11 then hell yeah! double my taxes I'll pay. I'd say that tackling the problem head-on with a two pronged approach is the best solution 1. Militarily isolate and destroy extremists. (isolate them from the local population centres to deny them of human resources and recruitment pool) 2. Infrastructural development of those areas afflicted by extremist to provide a better quality if life to the people 3. Improve relations with Islamic countries (US) especially Iran

speaking of the Soviet invasion heres a detailed account of the attack on amin's palace http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/WP51_Web_Final.pdf

The Soviets "invaded'" Afghanistan on the 31st of Oct '79. Wherin they assassinated Amin the President of Amin (Operation storm-333) this was definately a hostile act and the precursor to the main Invasion. Now would you call this an assistance or an invasion? You are correct that Soviet Union did provide instance but then later it did launch an invasion. And when is say '"soviet propaganda"' I meant it for comedic and dramatic effect to underscore a point. I am sorry if you took offence thought otherwise :) Now when I say military intervention I do not mean a full blown conventional war I imply the use of SOF and Intelligence apparatus of India. And where do you guys get this idea of a famine ridden and impoverished India? I mean yeah we have these problems but it doesnt mean we cant sustain a conventional miltary assasult! we are more than capable to maintain a high tempo of military operations. And if you had read my earlier posts i explains the long term monetary and economic benefits to India if islamic extremism is eradicated. We spend more money on our defence budget than some 1st world nations and absolutely capable of carrying out military operations Eg: maintenance if siachen glacier posts.

Goguapsy and I have come up with a scenario...give it a read and let me know your thoughts regarding the mission: 1.By stake out I mean establishing an OP around the village leader's place and tailing him. After the UC have been inserted, they arrive and set themselves up 30 m direct LOS from the chief's place. After about 1 min after their arrival the chief leaves his place and moves toward his vehicle. This marks the beginning of Objective 1: there will be several vehicles of different make and near the chief's house, the chief will get into one of them. The operators have to mark and identify the leaders vehicle due to a large amount of vehicular traffic goin thru the village/town. eg: "green, SUV" they will then tail him in their own civ vehicles parked inside making sure they know where hes goin....they will then relay the leaders last heading and vehicle type to the other team members as the chief heads outta town via one of the 3 exits (the operator cannot follow any further cuz of risk of being spotted) the support team outside then tails the chiefs car in dirt-bikes from a kilometre and observe the chief stopping at a distant abandoned house. here they find him meeting the taliban. This validates that he is in contact with the terrorist. *the tailing part can be done quite easily using scripting 2. the second objective is to gain the villages support by confronting the chief. The player has 2 choices (a) Tell the chief that they are FATU and here to help him and the village kick taliban ass...they will then rescue the chief's son held hostage by the taliban in exchange of aid. The chief will then give you complete information about the terrorist bases in the area (adding the base locations in your map). Note eliminating the terrorist cell while rescuing the chief's son will not get your cover blown as the taliban will think it was regular army SF who were involved, this will not lead to a an all out taliban assault but the chief's life will be in jeopardy (more on that later) (b)You can "assassinate" the chief,while making it look like a Taliban attack, then approach the villagers for help by identifying urself as FATU(lol..we need a name!) the village says "hell, yes!" and gives you 10 of their best men to help you in taking out the taliban. and you make a small raid on the abandoned house liquidating a 4 man terrorist cell. This will also lead to a Taliban attack on the village to show who's the boss. The "FATU" now have to help defend the village. Good old firefight! I was just giving an example when I mentioned the kids being kidnapped..ofcourse we wont have kids! lol So what are your opinions? really like to hear them loved the ending idea! SF soldiers mounting a massive raid against the taliban with "hell's bell's" in the background! ---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ---------- FATU is a the fictional Anti Extremist group made by the UC operatives

Didnt know that the Soviets were so effective at propaganda. Afghanistan was INVADED by the USSR. The President was assassinated by Spetsnaz troops which assaulted his palace and also Captured the airport to help land VDV divisions. The Soviet Union is probably the worst offender in the "Sticking noses in others business"category. ---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ---------- Following are the benefits' 1. Internal security of India is bolstered 2. Reduced cost of maintain massive AT forces and Army units in CI ops in NW regions..and im talking MASSIVE cost cuttings 3. Increased regional political clout 4 better Indo-US ties ---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ---------- Hi Bhai! This is just a hypothetical scenario. I'd like your views on whether India should be involved or not and if yes how should it go about it-the strategy and tactics ---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ---------- If you you and leave NOW America's credibility is shot to pieces. Your ultimate aim of destroying terrorism is unfulfilled and the extremist cause will be hailed by all their supporters and their numbers will swell. The Psychological impact on all peoples involved will be tremendous. They started the fight but the onus is on you to finish it. Simply leaving things as they are bolting will actually screw up all the good that this invasion has done. Which if you take a minute to think about is a LOT. So abandoning Afghanistan now will be US's biggest mistake. ---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 PM ---------- Well said ---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ---------- Now I'd like to conduct a simple vote All in favour if Indian involvement say Yes and the rest obviously No. Mine's Yes

BTW Guys....im planning an undercover mission with McNools Tier 1 operators (theyr awesome!) and im open to suggestions if you do have any either PM me or post it in the Undercover missions thread: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1787494#post1787494 Thanks ---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ---------- True. It does seem like an invasion under the pretense of a AT ope. But lets look at this from India's POV...any operation which hampers the operations of Af-Pak religious extremists would be of benefit to India. As for resource expenditure, sure the intial cost may be high but the long term strategic benefits to India (lesser maintenence cost of the NW borders due to reduction in PM forces and the internal security itself makes it worth it. You have raised an excellent point. Will it help America establish a powerful regional presence? well it depends on the political conditions in America. After all it is a Democracy and the american people want their troops back home and the current establishment seems keen getting everyone back. But you never know. We very well could be helping US establish a stepping stone to launch itself into Iran.