Tom1

RWS + JSRS combonation is the best sound mod ever, but with 3D sound and environmental sound effects (echos, distant shots effected by hiills interiors, forests etc) it would be a whole lot better and allow modders to further improve their sounds.

yay!!

Will you port this to arma 3 when it is released?

hey man be sure to hold onto all of your sounds I don't think I can play arma 3 when it comes out without these ;)

First up, thank you everyone for all the feedback, it has been nice to here positive and constructive remarks from all of you :) I agree although my suggestions can all be implimented really easilly and actually in the exact same way as bandages and bleeding have been implimented in ace (open up ace_sys_wound.pbo not as complicated as you would think) and more detail could have been gone into in ace's medical system, it feels really repedative like there is no challenge. I reckon ACE 2 now should already have agony and although the ACE system works, it is missing stuff. Bleeding and pain is good but once you bring unconsciousness due to bloodloss into the picture, you are leaving out essentials such as breathing and cardiac arrest, which in a system like ACE can be treated easilly with the right equipment (just like bandages heal bleeding in ace, certain equiptment may heal breathing or cardiac arrest). Tourniquets, plasma/IVs and splint were all originally going to be in ACE2, and auto-injectors (a renamed epi) now having negative effects and being a last resort, adding AEDs (defibrillators) for cardiac arrest and smelling salts for breathing (like a bandage for bleeding) just go hand in hand with the current system. And now that compression and CPR are in ACE all these new features I have put fourth don't seem so daunting or overkill afterall if you ask me, but this is my personal oppinion. But to clear things up the advanced system I had in mind is based heavilly on how ace is now, just with more wounding types and corresponding treatment.

I don't think a military game is really the place for ammunition condition, although maybe weapons could be damage via script in the editor to have increased jam rates and dispursion. This may be cool for those guerilla style missions. Although I am 100% behind REALISTIC weapon jams and overheating (as in increased weapon smoke and dispursion after firing heaps, machine guns have more resistance to overheating because of heavier barrels.). And one more thing: Don't even think about the M855 anymore. It was a shityy round that relied on yaw to fragment and performed inconsistantly and regularilly shockingly. This is 2011 and that problem has been fixed with the M855A1 EPR, not yaw dependednt, fragments at lower speeds, larger wound profile, penetration better than that of the m80 7.62x51mm nato and improved accuracy. That right there is consistant awesome performance :D

As long as the mission designer has overall control over what the basic uniform requirements and weapon loadouts it is all good. Look at the Australians at War mod, it's the same uniform, but with little things like different flag patches, goggles and helments. Maybe you can edit a character to use IF the mission maker hasnt specified what you will wear/use? IMO that would be the best way for BIS to go about it.

You are absolutely right man. Arma 2 is great but everythign feels clunky. If physics and animations are improved to be less clunky, I am hoping the medic system will be too.

ACE 2 features like flashlighst AND lasers at the same time, weapon resting and bipods, weapon overheating and jams (overheating means increased dispurtion and muzzle smoke no call of duty pverheating where weapon stops working :D) and vehicle armour simulation. Body armour simulation is a must, simply add "body armour damage" value to config and edit the damage formula to use that damage value against body armour and make it effected by veloicty. Allow body armour to shatter and lose effectivness. Armour piercing, ball, hollow point, match, explosive ammunition etc.

I think we can all agree though that without accumulatijg hitpoints killing us, proper body armour implimentation (explained how in first post), a damage formula involving how velocit effects damage and better animations will make arma 3 damn near perfect. I am going to try and make a poll and add it to this thread.

Yeah man animations deffinitly need work and would make this soo much more immersive. Also a cool interaction menu would make medical treament more fun. I mean the ACE menu was great, but after some PR screenys I reckon a radial wheel with different colourful options is the way to go :D

Couldn't have said it better myself militant, check my first post, an alternate simple medic system has been added and everythign is more organised, clear and understandable and overall better.

Look Max if you aren't going to be constructive then please leave this thread. This idea is more realistic than any other mod I have played, yet is still simple for players who wish to still have a little bit of un-realistic fun. I myself would rather have a fully realistic system where a wounded soldier is good as dead and needs to be taken to hospital and will not be capable of fighting again, but I relise this is deffinitly not everyone's cup of tea. The fact that there are medics in this game means that some sort of medical treatment will be included. Many games like bad company, battlefield, medal of honor, even call of duty, have their own revive systems because that's what people want. Many people also like how ace has an extremely simple yet descriptive system that makes the game feel more immersive (even though bandages fix 50cal bleeding :D) and others enjoy norrin's revive script. What do they all hve in common? Revives. This system would be more detailed and immersive, realistic and yet still simple for new players, while offering advanced players interested in a challenge exactly that, a challenge. Please take your negative attitude elsewhere. ---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ---------- ACE did this, just this system will have more treatment items and more states of injury. ACE worked really well, this is just another step up, while keeping the system really simple for new players but unlike ACE, it allows advanced players to have a challenge and more fun. Cheers

For everyone saying this is too complicated, these are the steps to treat a wounded comrade: Drag to safety, apply field dressing, compress wound. If bleeding continues, apply a tourniquet and await a medic. Seriously, a medics job is complicated, this is nowhere near as complicated. This is just apply specific treatment to different types of wounds that requires a little a) practise or b) prior knowledge If a similar medical system like this was to be released with arma 3, it would be in the instruction manual. Rememebr this is a simulation game. Most extreme wounds can just be fixed by an ai medic if noone one your team is confident being a medic. Have to apply first aid, stabalise and continue to treat and examine casualties is very realistic compared to what we have now (and some alternatives like ACE and SLX). @MaxPower I acknowledged that there are fragmenting and tumbling rounds because I have a fair bit of knowledge on the topic although I do not want to go over board in my first post with confusing stuff. My post may be long but it is very easy to understand. Perhaps an advanced first aid module where a unit will still be required to go to a hospital after being stabilised would be fitting for us Warfare, CTI, MSO and COOP players? I would like to ask everyone why they enjoy arma2? Is it because of the realism? What makes it realistic? "The flow of combat and how it all plays out" is deffinitly the most common answer on the other ARMA3 threads (look for "am i the only one not liking this whole futuristic idea?" thread) Well the flow of modern combat is heavilly effected by the status of the team members. Modern ammunition is actually intended to wound and not kill in order to slow down the enemy's manuevers and sen their morale to shit. A one hit, one kill system where no wounds (other than shaky aim from arm shots and borken legs from leg shots) are in the game and medics simply do something you would expect to only hear about in the bible when people with gun shot wounds to the legs are al of a sudden walking again is not realistic, it is my oppinion that an advanced medic system would be cool, but it is a fact that what we have now in vanilla arma 2 is unrealistic. The ability to peform first aid (which ALL soldiers are trained in) and for medics to have a tougher, more realistic and immersive job would greatly increase realism. I am not saying it would have to be done my way, but an advanced, and yes, slightly complicated medical system would make the game a lot more realistic. And to be honest, if you don't want this because it is too complicated for YOU and you think it is just a game (rather than thinking it will decrease realism or have another constructive piece of critisism to give) and you would prefere to play a point and shoot, one shot kill fps, but on large maps, with vehicles and objectives, heavilly focused on team play rather than a full military simulation, then i would reccomend trying out BattleField 2, Project Reality. It is a great game. I spent half the day just going through old first aid handbooks, research projects, PDFs, and other sourses to put this post together and make it really easy to understand for everyone rather than just chucking a heap of technical talk into the space of about a paragraph so everyone could read and hear my idea and oppinion. I do not appriciate these sorts of negative comments, if you don't like because you just don't like it, don't comment, if you don't think it will work and have a couple reasons why, please feel free to explain why in a nice tone and I will discuss. @Max Power, when you say that anything more than simple first aid is boring, don't play as a medic :) As a general soldier you only need to know how to put a dressing on, put pressure on it if you have time and otherwise chuck on a tourniquet and let a medic handle it. Also, I mean this will be like an interactive menu like ACE, Project Reality (some PR medic screens have been shown) and other mods have, rather than a full mini game. ONLY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIM PLEASE

If it was goign to be mainstreme-ish /cod like/ super furtureistic it wouldnt be called arma 3 but would have a different name. Set in near future is alright, and you can tell it will be very similar to what we have now, and worst comes to worst, we still have arma 2 to play :)

I hate ACE as well, but a lot of people play with it meaning ACE compatablity is a must for any addon makers. vanilla arma 2 OA and ACE both have shitty medical systems, vanila being just point shoot dead, with no simulated wounds and medical treatment and ace being un-researched (come on, EPIPENs for unconscious units? What do they want to kill them faster?!?!) , half arsed and still in "need of contributers" because they woulod rather allocate their members to working on features such as shoulder tapping than improving wounds. Atleast you can kill shit in vanilla though... -.-

I think we can all agree on netcode improvements, many of us will enjoy ragdoll as long as it does not compromise for massive fps/ server playablitity. Weapon attachments, underwater and cave bttles, the same mission editor, ut maybe with an easy to use 3D option and an equiptment menu in the units section (I mean you can select what faction, what type of soldier, but not what weapon, this feature would make the editor fast to use, using this addWeapon "x"; is tedious and should only be used in called functions not in a unit's init field.), better animations that interact with the environment. AI improvements, many mods have increased the AI's realism although the new AI should not be super intelligent, i.e. detect you form a certain range, they should have a LoS and a simulated hearing system which they use primarilly to detect enemies. Also a new sound engine would be nice. I mean, with mods like RWS for small arms and JSRS for vehicles and explosions, the sounds are very close to real.... but combine this with a 3d sound system, where echos and distant plops are changed depending on the surrounding environment and you have an awesome sound system. I do not reeaaally care for the sounds themself though as sound modders will probably do a better job/impriove on what BIS has done, but sonic cracks need to be very loud, scary and realistic even in vanilla arma 3. In My opinion wounds and ballistics are the most improtant (next to netcoding) feature that should be updated though. Read page 7 of this thread to get a better idea of what I mean. So: 100% must have otherwise you will lose all support from everyone!!!: Keep it up BIS. Keep the awesome initiative, keep the modding capablities, don't ever ever ever try and atempt to go any more main streme than you are now, as no mainstreme gamer will pick this over battlefield 3 or BF2 project reality, only serious gamers will buy arma 3 so keep it awesome and never go mainstreme. Please do not make super futurisic and give ranodm guns to random factions (cough CoD) and keep authenticity and real life technology please. Near furture is cool but no Tom Clansy super HUD visor shit please. If that stuff is in developement let it be developed and tested first and let modders make it so players have a choice. Please and thankyou :) 1.Netcoding redone: Seriously BIS please test on slower internet. Sweden, USA, UK and many asian countries have sweet internet, but many other countries like Australia, New Zealand and many more have shity internet (I download at 400 kb/s on armaholic on a good day) so that all shots will register etc etc. 2. Wounds, treatment, hitlocations etc: See page 7 for details, but for quick recap: Wounds shoudl be modelled and able to be treated. Bleeding, pain, agony states, unconsciousness, cardiac arrest, shock, not breathing. Then field dressings, tourniquets, hemostatic clotting agents, IV/plasma, morphine, AEDs (little defibs for cardiac arrest), smelling salts, and surgery/simple first aid (CPR, clamping arteries, putting pressure on wounds, breathin aparatus being applied, advanced surgery for internal bleeding etc). All of this can be modelled in an extremely similar way to how ACE has done their woudning system, although more detail would be needed. This would be very simple to make and with help from actual army medics and people with knowledge on the opic wounds could be a lot more awesome. Imagine a mission like warfare, MSO or any other mission allowing you to create or play out your own patrols/objectives how you want and not along a certain path. Now imagine with this new system missions would be a lot more realistic. Medical facilities would be taken into account, and a wounded machine gunner may force the squad to ditch their current mission in order to safely get him medicl attention, a proper medic and help from everyone else would be required and this would be a very realistic situation. Different types of ammunition can also be modelled, (ball, hollow point, armor piercing etc) and differnt ammo effects could be modelled too. Think of a similar damage formula to thast of ACE2's. It has an additional damage value in the ammo's config known as "vehicleDamage". Give an ammo a fragmentation, tumbling, expanding, incindary, bodyarmorDamage, vehicleDamage and regular damage value WILL greatly increase the realisim and possibilities. A formula could then easilly be created that effects damage, penetration of body armour, fragmentation, tumbling and so on depending on the round's velocity when it hits the target. Yes ACE uses stuff like energy transfer and bullet coefficient in it's formulas, although arma 3 may not need this because with any knowledge of how a round behaves at certain speeds using a formula to determain what you already know is pointless. Just edit the starting damage values to how it behaves (fragmenting, tumbling etc) and the overall damage value to whatever will work with the rest of the formula to provide realistic results. (In real life no ammo has a damage value, so therefore giving an unusually high alue to a round but allowing it to be drastically affected by its velocity in order to provide much more realistic end results is a good idea.) A unit will not die froma ccumulated hitpoint damage, instead they will die from stuff like cardiac arrest, not breathing, shots to head and CNS and extreme bloodloss. 3.Simulated Vehicle and Armor damage. ACE did a decent job with this but for an infantry sim armor damage could be done much better. Using real world data, damage done to a vehicle (such as fires, mobilitty and firepower kills, destroying ammo storage, crew damage etc) would depend on what type of ammunition was used against what armor and what speed the round was going at when it hit the specific location at a specific angle. Then more destruction effects like vehicle fires and mobility kills could be added instead of a destroyed tank going black and just blowing up after being shot with a non-explosive round one too many times. 4.Animations that work with the environemnt. A climb over or wall hug animation would not only make the CQB better, the game smoother and cooler but also more realistic. If you automaticall lower weapon at a wall in order to fit the game will not be as clunky yet still be good unlike CoD where your weapon just ghosts its way through aa way as you sideways walk inside. 5. Underground, caves and underwater warfare added. Not much explainign needed here, this would simple be awesome. 6. Physics. This would be awesome alsong as no major stress is put on servers and clients. I.e. major lag. Also ability to turn off maybe? Thanks heaps, my friends and I have a fair bit of knowledge of ammunition and wounds/treatment (some being involved in the field of medicine) and would love to help and give detailed ideas. If any Dev sees this and would like more suggestions maybe a wounding thread could be started? Please and thankyou BIS, keep it up and un-mainstreme :D

LONG POST BUT PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS< IT WILL MAKE ARMA 3 MUCH MORE REALISTIC What is on my arma 3 wishlist? If I had my own way arma 3 would have improved netcoding so i can shoot someone and they will register every hit, physics would be cool but i really am only looking forward to netcode improvements, underwater and hopefully cave battles (VBS has this) and ofcourse....... Realistic wounds!!!!!! Not like ACE or vanilla Arma 2. Different rounds cause variable wound profiles. Depending on ammunition behaviour @ speed x and depending on hit location the bullet will simulate what it does in real life. A fragmenting round will fragment at x velociy and cause y amount of bleeding. Bleeding leads to unconsciousness, shock, and cardiac arrest. Unconsciousness can lead to discontinuation of breathing, and the wound will cause pain, generally a direct hit will cause the target to become incapacitated. Damage to CNS, Head (brainpart of CNS :p), excesive bloodloss, cardiac arrest amoungst other stuff like glitching into a rock on an ATV will kill a soldier in arma3. Consecutive shots should not kill a unit unless they are to vital areas such as CNS. Ammunition will be more than just "5.56x45mm STANAG": Different types of ammunition in use by the military should be simulated. For example, USMC use mk.318 SOST, US Army use m855a1, some special forces SAW operators use m995 Armor piercing ammo, but for the sake of the game, and USA vs Russia scenario shoulod use armor piercing ammo instead of ineffective ball rounds. Body armour simluation would be cool too, as in soft armour could proetc t against pistol rounds at close range, and hard armour will protect againts certain rifle rounds and certain velocities, and can be degraded and shatter, thus loosing effectivness. Field dressings and putting pressure on a wound will slow bleeding and have a chance (decreasing depending on rate of bleeding) to stop it altogether. Morphine will work as an active pain relief but will slow the heart so must not be used all the time. Tourniquets and hemostatic agents like quik clot can be used although they will reduce a soldier's combat effectiveness, but will portentially save a life. Medics have the option to perform surgery, so procedures such as clamping arteries can be carried out to stop heavy bleeding. IV bags/plasma will refill a unit's "blood meter" which will come with obvious positive effects (due to blood loss having negative effects). CPR can be used on patients not breathing or without a pulse. Medics will not carry magical "med kits" which do miracle surgery for them. But they will carry bags with the appropriate medical equipment in them. Smelling salts, IV bags, surgey kits, additional field dressings and tourniquets, hemostatic agents, AED (Automated External Defibrillator) for restarting the heart (FYI epinephrine is NOT used for cardiac arrest, giving a patient who has entered cardiac arrest after bloodloss due to a gun shot wound will only cause his heart rate to increase, increasing the speed at which he bleeds. It is used for bee stings and peanut allergies, maybe as a last resort in the military when someone is so obviously not going to survive that the medics just inject epi so they can say to relatives "well we tried to save him." .. Ok this is an exageration but epi is an absolute last resort, should not be added to arma 3.) amonst other stuff like breathing apparatus. This sounds very complicated, but can be made in a similar fashion to how ACE wounds were developed. ACE wounds have scripts that state whether the unit was or wasn't bleeding, then has scripts which give bleeding units side effects. Treatment is simple. If a unit has pain and morphine is used, pain is either completely taken away or atleast reduced. Diagnosis can be done in the same way "Examine > patient x is bleeding a requires bandages" is done, but with more authentic post-examination results, such as "patient unresponsive, is slowly oozing bright pinky red blood and is very pale, is not breathing and a pulse cannot be found." (cardiac arrest, artery has been severed, not breathing, unconscious and when they wake up they will obviously require pain relief :p) Everything I have just said is possible in arma 2 with a little motivation, knowledge on the topic (epi for gun shots wounds.. seriously :D) and ofcourse, more contributers (sorry ACE I had to :p), so it can deffinitly be made for arma 3. VBS has authentic ballistic simulation, artillary simulation (including targeting) and much more, so the excuse "this system is waaaay too complicated for a simple game" is obsolete. Don't understand arty? Don't use it or try and learn to use it. Same goes with medics, I mean, it is a realistic simulation game.. And real life is much much more complicated. Here is all you really need to know for this new medical system: Less serious bleeding is slowed and sometimes stopped by field dressings. Tourniquets and Quik Clot will clot bleeding much more effectivly but will cause pain and other negative effects. Surgery can be performed by medics to achieve the best possible results, whether that be the patient is in the best possible condition after surgey or the surgery has the highest rate of success (compare a bandage to clamping a severed artery ;) ). Pain is treated by morphine although a unit cannot have too much and if the heart rate is already slowed down too much morphine will be dangerous. Unconsciousness is treated by various things. If the unit has lost too much blood and has gone unconsciousness, they will require IV/plamsa to refill thier blood levels before baing capable of waking up, breathin will need to be restarted if it has stopped (obviously if they stop breathing they will dieg as well :p). Smelling salts and bretahing apparatus (in medic kit) can be used to start the breathing of a patient. Cardiac arrest will also kill a unit quite quickly although i can be treated with CPR, and AEDs. Plasma/IV will refill the blood meter of a unit taking away all negative side effects of blood loss seeing as the blood has been replaced. Oh and a simple medic module with vanilla arma 2 style damage could be added too although I think after using this system noone would go back. In arma, first aid is simple for soldiers, it is the medics job that is difficult, as it should be, just as an arty officer's job is not simply click on map with mouse and shoot super accurate arty. :D VBS has great arty simlaution hope that makes it into arma 3 as well :) My friends and I (one of them an ammunition designer for Thales Australia, one being a nurse and one being a doctor) would be more than happy to go into more detail with how proper wounds and medical treatment could be simluated to achieve maximum realisim and fun at the same time. I realise I wentinto a lot more detail about wounds than ammunition simulation, although ammunition is my favourite area of study, if you would like to know more, just PM me.

as long as netcode is rewritten i would be happy with just an expansion, netcode NEEEDS work.

This is the only weekend in my entire life that has gone extremely slowly and that i wanted to just end (getting closer and closer to E3 where there will be an announcement if there is anythign big.)

Hey Alex please release a class list with weapons, vehicles, ammo and units please. World In Conflict Tool is waiting patiently for full scale war with PLA :) Would it be possible to add PLA to Blufor and resistance as well as OpFor? This would be cool.

yeah check out AUSARMA site and go to AAF (Australian Armed Forces clan) and join/ add on skype. I would link you but we just changed to vBulletin and it requires a password request, yet when i activate my account it links me to the old inactive forum so until this is fied i cannot sign in :p MSO is a great mission where you can free roam the whole island and lots of things like terrorist cells and training camps an civilian reputation and enemy money and equiptment/logistics is all included (so much more has been added recently) and now that the major scripts have been added the MSO can be set up on whatever map in no time if you have another copy of MSO with you to take scripts from. Imagine a multiplayer, miliary (not post apocaliptic) fallout where everything you do will effect the outcome of the mission.

See your point, but arma 2 didnt really have heaps of technology at all compared to operation arrowhead so the whole game pretty much needs those fundamentals to be worked on anyway, it didnt miss out due to the super high tech apache gun cams in arma 2 :D . To any BIS workers please please please make factions 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, so we can set each faction to a number and set which faction is fighting which, which faction is friendly, which is neutral and which will only engage if neutral/enemy get too close (last one not too important). This can be done in the same place that resistance is set to blufor, opfor, none or both to make it easier for new players.

Well making a modern mod would be extremely difficult and would be low quality due to all the additional technological stuff that needs to be added whereas Cold War and WWII mods would be a lot easy because the basics have already been taken care of and ot as much needs tpo be made/implemented correctly and well. Cold War is great fun but a modern game would just be so much better, especially with the arma community who always spit out great quality mods :)

I hope this next game is modern not set in the cold war (yn)