Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)

[Fixed Wing Flight Model (dev branch)]

I spend about 5 hours a day on the KOTH servers, and whereas in the old days the skies used to be full of Blackfish VTOL's, nowadays they're almost empty since 1.70 because hardly anybody can fly them, including me.(sniffle)

Every so often somebody has a crack at it, but usually gets hung up on power lines or something.

Also, jets are now almost impossible to shoot down with the shoulder-launched Titan AA's fiddly new lockon routine, and the new wobbly horizon view has got many chopper pilots up in arms.  

[Helicopter camera]

Oukej said re the Titan AA:- 

This is offtopic. Titan has been changed deliberately - it's been an integral and required part of the Sensor Overhaul to balance the missiles and countermeasures. As always - we're open to feedback! Please continue on this topic in the linked thread.

Oukej said re the Blackfish:-This is a bit trickier subject (and also OT ;)). The change has been triggered by changing the airplane throttle behavior from "autothrottle" to a standard incremental throttle.

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Thanks mate but the link to the Sensor Overhaul doesn't work for me.

1- All I know is that in KOTH  jets now completely dominate and unbalance the game because there's not a thing we can do to shoot them down with the fiddly new Titans. 

2- The link to the Blackfish thread works but it's 30 pages long and I don't have the time or inclination to wade through it, I'm going to watch some videos of Stargate SG-1.

I've just spent 5 hours in the KOTH servers and I didn't see a single Blackfish, whereas before 1.70 the sky was full of them.

[Helicopter camera]

3 hours ago, b501 said:

Still dont understand why Bohemia thought it would be a good idea to change the heli camera that everyone has used for over TEN years. If it aint broke dont fix it, feels bad man.

Developer Oukej said say they changed it because jet pilots wanted it changed.

Pity they never bothered to ask heli pilots if they wanted it changed too..:)

PS- they also changed the Titan AA lockon parameters and new Blackfish VTOL controls too, I don't know if anybody asked for the changes, but they've certainly buggered the game up because now it's almost impossible to shoot down fast-moving jets, and the Blackfish is almost unflyable, it lurches around like a crackhead.

 

11 hours ago, romille1 said:

Buy any beans today Spike?

Not today mate, but I've been thinking of popping over to this place round the corner from me to ask the ladies if they can read my palm and tell me if I'll ever be piloting the Blackfish again-

 

[Helicopter camera]

1 hour ago, romille1 said:

..if I were a single, studly, colorful old guy, full of humor, life, and great jokes, i'd be getting out from behind the cans of beans and engaging in conversation with said bookshop employee.  Life is too short.

And if I were the HNIC (street slang for Boss) over at BI, I'd be doing things a whole lot differently.

 

1- Sadly the bookshop employee seemed to give me the cold shoulder in the street the other day, we were walking towards each other and I was hurriedly trying to think of some witty funny remark to hit her with, but before I had the chance she'd whipped out her mobile phone and started talking into it to pretend she hadn't seen me, and we passed without a word (sniffle).

I'll try my luck with the young lady in the Co-op next, she says hello to me with a sweet smile every time I go in. Clever girl, she knows we old farts are the ones with the brains AND the money..;)

2- Yes mate, born leaders such as you and me like to run shows, I personally can't stand being second fiddle to anybody!

In fact I've just walked out of an Arma3 WW2 mod development team because it's being run at an indecisive snail's pace and it's boring me out of my skull. Below are a few of the dozens of units we've been working on and I've been screaming "RELEASE, RELEASE!" for months, but the Big Boss is dragging his feet, so I jumped ship-

 

 

 

 

[Helicopter camera]

There's a lovely young woman who works in our local supermarket, so I used to make a point of shopping there so that I could spy on her between the cans of baked beans and stewed steak, but recently she's pinned her hair up into one of them awful bun things and it looks terrible, so I've completely lost interest in her and now go and spy on a woman in WH Smiths bookshop instead.

Same with Arma3, it looked lovely in 1.68, but then Boh brought out the 1.70 upgrade which makes it look awful by messing up the Titan AA launcher lockon routine and the Blackfish VTOL controls, and some chopper pilots hate the new "fluid camera" view.   

Obviously Boh have made the policy decision to continually try to "improve" Arma3 at regular intervals which sounds good on paper, but as we've seen, the changes are not always liked by the community, so maybe Boh should review their policy and ONLY make changes/fixes when there's an OVERWHELMING demand from the community.

But as far as I know there was NO such overwhelming demand for 1.70, as the majority of players were quite happy with the way the Titan AA, Blackfish and helis worked before. 

In other words Boh tried to fix something that wasn't broken.

When I was a paid developer at Cases in the 1980's we used to bring out games as a finished product, and turn our attention to bringing out the next game, we didn't keep going back to needlessly tweak earlier games, and the community seemed to like our "leave well alone" approach..:)-

 

   

[Helicopter camera]

11 hours ago, RacerX said:

...most jets users that I talk to on my server say the blackfish among other things are all screwed up and they are unhappy with the changes. 

 

Me too..:)

I've been pouting and sulking like crazy because 1.70 introduced a new set of Blackfish vectoring control key combos which won't bloody work for me and I've been grounded ever since, and so are a lot of other people. The KOTH server skies are now almost empty of Blackfishes because people won't spend hard-earned game-cash on something they can't fly. Some brave souls try it now and again but usually end up hung up on telephone wires or in treetops.

PS- and for good measure 1.70 also introduced new lockon parameters for the Titan AA missile launcher which buggered that up too, as it's now almost impossible to lock onto fast-flying jest and choppers, I actually abandoned a KOTH game yesterday because jets were trashing everything in sight and there was nothing we could do to stop them, so I went and did myself a couple of rounds of cheese on toast and sat down to watch a 'Women on Death Row'  TV documentary instead.

[Helicopter camera]

3 hours ago, Harrison Clark said:

..I have 2160 hours almost entirely spent flying and this recent update has made helicopters so unbearable for me that I have actually had to stop playing for the time being.

 

Yes, the original 1.70 update made them almost unflyable and people were puking over their keyboards with airsickness, but to their credit Boh released a 1.70 hotfix which improved things a lot, so make sure you've got the hotfix installed and you can cut right down on the airsick pills..:)

However, some chopper pilots (including you) prefer the old 1.68 view, but Bohemia seem to be saying it's gone forever and that's what most of the angry complaints in this thread are about, so unless Boh change their minds, 1.70 hotfixed is going to be the only view in town.

[Helicopter camera]

20 hours ago, romille1 said:

@Spike

 

Nice collection of awards.  In your honest opinion, which camera option makes most sense based on your current understanding of the situation and what should BI do in this situation?

 

Well some people will want to lynch me for saying so, but I like the 1.70 hotfixed 3rd-p 'fluid horizon' view because it gives a realistic sense of g-force, mass and inertia. 

Oukej said earlier that the feedback from jet jocks indicates they like it too.

At a guess I'd estimate about half of all chopper pilots also like it.

The only people who don't like it are the fast and low chopper flyers who preferred the way they could thread choppers like a needle through trees etc with absolute precision with 1.68, but they're in a minority.

So on the whole, the majority of Arma3 jet/heli pilots like1.70 hotfixed, and Boh knows it makes good business sense to give the majority what they want.

But as me and a bunch of other people have said before, the ideal solution would be for Boh to slot 1.68 back into the game alongside 1.70 hotfixed and give us a menu preference option to use whichever of the 2 views we liked, but surprisingly they say it can't be done, maybe their programmers are not the all-knowing gods we once thought they were..;)

Pity because every flight sim I've seen has at least 2 camera views, so by only having 1, Arma3 is lagging far behind the rest.

 

 

[Helicopter camera]

4 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

Often you're suggesting an ingame option - tbh we'd like to avoid that. It would increase the required manpower on the issue quite a bit (maintenance across sandbox, testing) and we don't have that. 

That seems to be the official response. In case you missed it spike. 

 

Thanks mate, I saw it when Oukej posted it, but that doesn't mean we have to roll over and accept it..;)

Hey Bohemia I'm retired and spend 10 hours a day on the computer 24/7, so if you want to send me stuff to playtest let me know. I'm currently on the 'Towards Berlin' wargame development team and am also helping develop the Airport Madness 3D air traffic game but have got plenty of time to test anything else.  And I've been wargaming/flight simming for 34 years at various clubs, I've been around..:)

My credentials-

BLITZKRIEG CLUB

 

 

 

 

RUGGED DEFENSE CLUB

 

 

 

 
 

[Helicopter camera]

On 26/05/2017 at 1:45 PM, oukej said:

Valid complains that 3rd person camera used to be "suboptimal" (and sim industry non-standard-ish) for aircraft control and flight vector awareness is what triggered the changes in the first place :)

 

As a flight simmer for 34 years, I can tell you the sim industry standard is to have at least two 3rd-person view options (usually corresponding to Arma3's 1.68 fixed-horizon view and the 1.70 hotfixed fluid-horizon view).

In fact most flight sims have more than those two 3rd-p views, they also have a variety of views such as "Spot", "Fixed spot", "Chase", Padlock", "Camera movement", "Moveable eyeballs " etc. 

So compared to them Arma3 is sub-optimal and lags behind the industry standard because it only has a single view (1.70 hotfixed).

I'm not a computer expert but presumably the programming for the 1.68 view still exists in a drawer in Boh's office, so if it can be fished out and slotted into Arma3 to give us the option of using it or the 1.70 hotfixed view, it'd solve the problem at a stroke and put a smile on our faces bigger than a wave on a slop bucket..:)

[Helicopter camera]

13 hours ago, Misconduct said:

I would say that the unpredicted and unintended change to the 3 year old camera should be priority number one..

 

And let's not forget that two other important issues should also rank up there in the top priority slot, namely-

Firstly the new Titan AA missile lockon routine needs fixing, as it's now almost impossible to stay locked on to a fast-flying jet,

and secondly the new Blackfish VTOL vectoring keys need fixing because they don't work for me and I'm grounded.

To sum up, the 1.70 upgrade has messed up some things real bad.

 

[Helicopter camera]

13 hours ago, PistFlyBoy said:

...most likely the Slalom-er minority has more time played combined then all the average arma 3 flyer, and the slalom-er spent more hours in the editor training under those poles then you in the whole game.

 

Yes there are some great slalomer chopper pilots in the KOTH servers, but sadly the majority of slalomers are not so good (although they think they are), and usually end up crashing into a tree or house etc, and voice chat is full of curses from the barbecued passengers..:)

In fact, when passengers hop into a chopper at base, they often say- "Please don't land, let us jump!"

PS- in fact para-jumping is safer even if there are SAMs and cannon-firing AA about, because chopper pilots could bring in their passengers to the outskirts of the objective area at high speed underneath SAM/AA coverage just above tree-height, then quickly zoom up to jump height (100 metres), and with any luck the passengers can jump out before SAMs/AA have had time to lock on..:)

 

[Helicopter camera]

Let's look at it from Bohemia's perspective-

As dev Oukej said on page 5, jet pilots like the 1.70 hotfix view.

And from this thread's feedback it seems a fair number of ordinary chopper pilots like it too (as I do myself).

However the only chopper pilots who don't like it are the "slalom" fliers who like to thread their way around tree trunks and lampposts rather than go over them.

So overall it seems the majority of players (jet jocks and ordinery chopper fliers) like it, and it's therefore doubtful if Boh will revert to 1.68 just to please the slalomer minority..

Let's hope they solve it at a stroke by simply providing an ingame preference to let players select 1.68 or 1.70.

Anyway Boh have got other things on their plate right now, as there are no less than 24 pages of feedback gripes about Jets DLC for them to work through, plus of course there remains the issue of getting the Titan AA and the Blackfish VTOL working properly again after the 1.70 game upgrade..;)

PS- I can understand why jet jocks and ordinary chopper pilots like 1.70; it creates a realistic feel of weight, inertia and g-force as your stomach goes up and down like a yo-yo, and your eyeballs pop in and out and you really feel as if you're in a bucking heaving flying machine, whereas with the old 1.68 view the choppers seemed to have no feeling of weight, and felt as insubstantial and lightweight as houseflies. 

I predict more and more slalom fliers will come to like the 1.70 view and master it easily enough..:)

 

[Helicopter camera]

We all love Moderators, in fact I'm one myself over at the Mission4Today WW2 combat flight sim site, I saw an advert like this and thought I'd give it a go-

 

So can I ask any BI Mods/Admins/Developers this key question-

Can you give us an ingame menu option to use the old 1.68 static horizon view and the new 1.70 hotfixed fluid-horizon view?

That way, players can use whichever view they prefer..:) 

After all, most flight sims out there have always had a variety of view preferences.

 

[Weapon tests]

9 hours ago, romille1 said:

Maybe we could all get together and do some testing or whatever as time allows...

Also, related to the heli camera thread, Rabbit is an amazing Blackfish pilot and is able to fly really well with the new change.  If they don't fix it, he could give you some pointers so you can get back in the air.

 

Thanks, I do about 6 hours a day on the KOTH servers 24/7, so if we bump into each other in there we can team up, there seems to be a chronic shortage of experienced tank gunners. I spend big cash buying a tank and say "I need a gunner" and then keep my fingers crossed that the guy who jumps in will know what he's doing!

For example when I'm a tank commander or driver, I constantly have to keep screaming at the gunner "WATCH YOUR FRIGGIN FRONT, I'M FACING THE TANK AT THE ENEMY" because they have the infuriating habit of continually swinging the turret around to look in all directions including directly behind, you couldn't make it up!

Regarding the Blackfish VTOL, I'm still grounded because I can't get the new key combos to work since the 1.70 update, and neither can most other people, so sadly the KOTH skies are now almost empty of Blackfishes.

If Rabbit or anybody can help please let me know by posting here or by PM or email, thanks..:)

pooroldspike (at) aol (dotcom)

[Helicopter camera]

8 hours ago, Misconduct said:

even if the success rate of the flying you described (sounds familiar) is 25% it is still a far better tactic than paradrops in terms of boots on the ground (points) because you get groups of soldiers defending an LZ while reviving, much higher success rates follow one good, hot LZ.

Check out Token Abizi (sp?) with the mohawk ( I think romille1 mentioned him earlier) he is a madman. (but, Hummingbird>Mohawk!!)

 

It all depends what the scenario is, I only play KOTH and if there are SAM's in some KOTH scenarios it makes sense to come in low and fast underneath them and land, but if there are no SAM's it's safer to fly in above small-arms range and parachute out.. 

Regarding landing, inexperienced pilots often make the mistake of landing smack in the enemy's lap in a hot LZ in the middle of the objective area, when it would have been safer to land on the outskirts. You get exactly the same victory points for being on the outskirts as you do for being in the centre!

Regarding parachuting, most inexperienced chutists make a similar mistake by waiting until the chopper is over the centre of the obj area before jumping into the enemy's lap, instead of jumping on the safer outskirts, crazy!

PS- if anybody can recommend any other good servers out there please let me know..:) 

 

[Helicopter camera]

8 hours ago, lysan said:

3rd person view should be illegal anyway but that is just my opinion, I'd help myself out now.....

 

The KOTH servers are 3rd-p and they're very popular. There were  a couple of 1st-p ones a while back but they've since vanished, so I presume nobody wanted them..:)

[Helicopter camera]

5 hours ago, romille1 said:

..The way you landed the Mowhawk in your demonstration video was very, very slow compared to what was possible with the old camera, but it was a nice landing none-the-less.  But that's all it is, a nice, basic slow calculated landing..

 

Call me fussy but I like to get my boys to the landing zone alive!

They've learnt to "Stick with Spike if you want to live"..:)

I've seen too many hot-dogging chopper pilots (usually Hummingbird jocks) in the servers trying to slalom around trees at high speed to land fast, and ending up snagging the foliage and getting barbecued with their passengers in the flaming wreckage..:)

 

[Helicopter camera]

On 27/05/2017 at 10:52 PM, romille1 said:

Nice screenshots, but you've completely missed our gripe here.  It's a problem that can't be understood by a screenshot, only by a pilot whose spent enough hours flying will understand the full magnitude of the problem....

 

Not guilty! I've been flying assorted flight sims over the past 34 years, including 1500 hours on Arma 3 servers, flying with the old 1.68 static horizon which I liked.

Then when 1.70 introduced the new fluid-horizon I hated it as much as anybody and was glad when BI brought out the hotfix to damp down the fluidity. You can lynch me for saying so but the hotfix horizon has grown on me and I actually (forgive me) like it because you get a nice soft realistic rocking and rolling feeling of being in a real chopper as your body is subjected to g-forces and centrifugal forces. And as developer Oukej mentioned earlier, feedback from jet pilots indicate they like it too.

But if BI decide to revert to 1.68 I can live with that too, so I'm neutral..:) 

Here's my sensational vid again of me throwing a Mohawk around after the 1.70 hotfix, (play it in 720 definition if your browser supports it)-

 

 

[Update 1.70 Feedback]

2 hours ago, chortles said:

@pooroldspikeTo be fair, the above changes mean that currently the Cheetah/Tigris' radar -- plus that of the Praetorian, the Centurion, and the Centurion's missiles -- on paper outranges all current infrared-guided air-to-ground missiles and even the current aircraft laser sensors (those on bombs and missiles may be a different story) and even with radar off, if the KOTH designers don't alter the Cheetah/Tigris' stats then the vehicles could still be able to pick up/select targets from outside of their radar range which were detected by their side's Blackfish/Xi'an or UAVs.

 

The KOTH designers could also swap the the Cheetah/Tigris' missiles for a medium/long-range radar-guided missile such as the DLC jets', the Buzzard's, or the Centurion's, although any of those would require that the Cheetah/Tigris' radar be toggled on up through launch, probably giving the target aircraft a lock warning unless it's a Hummingbird/Pawnee.

 

Yeah KOTH is good but far from perfect, we're at the mercy of the KOTH designers.

Like I've said before, I'd buy my own server and create my own game for it, but I'm a PC dummy regarding the techy side so I'd need help to get the server running, if anybody's interested drop me a mail or PM..:)

[Update 1.70 Feedback]

2 hours ago, chortles said:

@pooroldspikeOn dev branch today the Cheetah/Tigris and the carrier static defenses gained datalink sensors, albeit with the Spartan (short range, high-capacity infrared missile launcher) losing active radar while the Praetorian (gun turret) gained range and the Centurion (medium/long range, radar-guided missile launcher) traded width for range, that last one now outranging all air-to-ground missiles... in combination they can make a potent anti-air combination, with all three of said static defenses able to turn towards and potentially engage targets detected by each other, your Cheetah/Tigris' active radar, your side's VTOLs, or even by your side's UAVs!

 

I wish there were AA units like that in the KOTH servers where I mostly play..:)

[Helicopter camera]

Developer Oukej said on page 5 that it was jet pilots who wanted the new 1.70 view in the first place, and that their feedback indicates they like it!

So that places BI in a dilemma because a lot of chopper and Blackfish pilots don't like it!

It therefore seems the only way to keep both camps happy would be for BI to give us an in-game option to choose to play with either the old 1.68 static-horizon view or the new 1.70 hotfix fluid-horizon view, whichever they prefer..:)

How about it BI? Is that possible?

Here's what Oukej said on page 5-

"Valid complaints that 3rd person camera used to be "suboptimal" (and sim industry non-standard-ish) for aircraft control and flight vector awareness is what triggered the changes in the first place :)

One examplehttps://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/5h06zz/aircraft_3rd_person_camera_proof_of_concept/

So from airplane's perspective we've received positive feedback after the change."

[Update 1.70 Feedback]

2 hours ago, Vasily.B said:

..I was writing about smoke used on armored vehicles to be precise ;) It is completly useless.

 

Are you talking about guided or unguided AT missiles?

I know that if I fire a  guided Titan ATGM missile at an armoured vehicle in KOTH and it pops smoke grenades, the missile always dives into the ground short of the target vehicle. I've never seen such a missile get through smoke, because smoke messes up the guidance system.

 

[Update 1.70 Feedback]

1 hour ago, chortles said:

@pooroldspikeHave you considered asking the KOTH people to implement the autonomous SAM turrets...

 

Mate, I've been a member here for 8 years and me and other people have been suggesting lots of things, and we can only hope the Devs see and take on board what we're saying..:)

[Helicopter camera]

16 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

...someday soon new tank systems and physx? top down titans ? will these all be issues because somebody has to learn to use the new changes?

 

Ah, but Arma3 1.68 was like a beautiful woman and didn't need any changes..:)

I once dated a woman who did need changes because she always wore oldfashioned clothes and horrible flat shoes, so I bought her a pair of sexy high heels but she refused to wear them, so I ditched her.

Pity because I was planning to buy her a Wonder Woman outfit too (sniffle)