TrevorOfCrete

just to reflect on supah's point, for either side of the discussion, here's San Francisco 10,000 feet up. Click

reality tv is just stupid full stop. (except shows with meanings, like the aprentice etc..). But this series of Big Brother did show that Britian still has underlying racism. And showing that that exists to our teenagers (who make the majority of viewers for BB) can be no bad thing.

if its so hard to see, how can he make that assumpiton that there rockets??? Â The pilot seem pretty sure there flatbeds. Your point makes our arguamnt stronger if anything. Â If hes that experianced he should have known that its too hard to identify the orange panels as 'rockets'.

you've got to be joking me right? 'A list' celebreties never lower themselves to such televisual tat as big brother, hence why ever year we end up with a house full of people we've never heard of, and never care about... Indeed: A-list: Big TVshows and/or motion pictures (aka movies ) B-list: Reality TV etc etc.. Ppl that does anything for some money and fame C-list: The random dude standing behind the newsreporter waving, and the bragging for all his hill-billy friends his on 6o' clock news. exactly A-list: Big TVshows and/or motion pictures (aka movies )

a friend told me apperently people get virtually married to people in second life, even though in real life there complete strangers. really sad

no, shes deffanatly A list. Â A massive cock up from her agent apperently. Â She didnt know what big brother was, and her agent signed her up for it a day before it started. Â In India she has millions of fans aswell as millions of $. Â She is undobtadly the biggest celebrity who has ever set foot in that stupid house, and didnt need to go there for a re-start to her career like the others. also bollywood is soon to be worth more than hollywood, so perhaps it will become somthing in our books?

to me it just they took the US approach of "shoot first ask questions later". Its obvious it wasnt on purpose. But like L/Cpl Chris Finney says, they were rogue pilots (uncontactable by British according to some sources) who acted like cowboys.

yes i hope she does well. its good to see those three (mind my french) bitches have ruined there own careers.

thats an old trick all armies use. Â If somones incapable or an ass hole, promote them. Â (ie. Â Sobel in BoB.). it is a bit disrespectful. This needs to be goten to the bottom of and simply saying it was a mistake is not good enough. The US needs to co-operate with the Brtitish enquiry alot more. Firstly for the Widow of the soldier who burnt alive in his tank, and secondly to improve communication between gorund and air to prevent further incidents.

it was a british forces area.  but it is important to point out the british columns have US forward air observers, including the column that was hit.  My conclusion is it was a series of mistakes, that in the end was made fatal by the pilots poor training and willingness to act without concrete evidence. The orange markers should be enough to put off any pilot from engaging without definate evidence.  "they look like rockets" is not good enough for engagment.  Its a hunch.  Plus if all pilots thought iraqi veicles could attempt to pose as coalition forces the suspicion would cause many more friendly fire incidents.  Its just silly, these guys mudt have been breifed, "anything with orange on top, dont shoot!"

well one of the pilots assumes that there rockets. Â even the other pilot seems sceptical on the tape. Â That assumption was fatal. Â And the pilots should have definatly reported the orange marking to the controller, who had the ability to make the appropraiate calls to find out if they were friendly. Â For me there just seems a massive lack of confirmation either way. Â The orange markings , that were noticed, Â for me means the pilots MUST be 100% sure there hostile targets, which simply wasnt the case. Â They attacked on pure assumption. the Pilots were national guard units from Georgia. Â ITV had a military expert comparing the training of US and British forces in veicle recognition (RAF pilots have yearly tests to guarantie combat efficieny, the USAAF does not) :Update: just watched 10 o clock news. Â pilots were reservists from Idaho, not georgia, my mistake. Vidio only from one of the A10's, the other ran out of tape before the incident. Â If you listen to the vidio (which they showed all of) youll notice a abort run call comes when the pilot isnt engaging. Â This is becuase the other pilot has continued to engage, despite the British now firing of red smoke (sign of friendly fire). Â The BBC also reports that the US forward observer (in the same column as the british tanks) is reporting a completly differnet location to the tanks positions as having no friendly armor, so there appears to be some confusion between the US observer and A10's.

a iraqi army getting hold of british tanks??? ill believe it when i see it. no personal offence but i think your argumant is flawed.

well, the pilots were reservists who had no veicle recognition training. Â Therefor i blame the US government and USAAF. Â The ground controller misentrepted the pilots and thought they ment targerts nearer the village apperently (according to BBC news). Â anywhom not training pilots veicle recognition is a disaster waiting to happen. Â its like a boss at work telling somone to use machinery hes not trained to use, and the employee cutting his own hand off with it. Â They relised there mistake after a Lightning34 informed them there were friendlys in the area. they were in Skorpion light armord tanks. Â plus if you had a10's coming at you friendly or not wouldnt you haul ass? @buzzard : you must remeber this is pre-terrorist stages of the war in iraq. Â This was early invasion.

hmm the British troops on the ground insists both a british flag preceding, and smoke grenades fired following the first run, indication of a friendly fire incident. Â Looks like all the evidence needs to be fully collected. Â i think the pilots must take some of the blame. Â just because radio operators report no friendlies in the area dose not mean no initive or common scence should be used. also the USA refused permission for the board of enquiry to speak with the US piltots. Very dubious in my opinion.

well said

then again, the british goverment is providing iran equipment. Â That also ends up in the hands of hezballah etc... Â But we dont really care about doing that, i mean the US funded the IRA whos terror campaigns killed hundreds, Â so why cant we wet our beak? also what do you mean by hasnt changed? Â i dont think iran has ever been power hungry. Â Its been greeded over more like. Â Suddenly Arab nationalism appears and there all 'power hungry'.

hmm, well perhaps a while back. Â I wouldnt say most modern wars were drived by religion. Â I think money is a much bigger issue in this capitalist phase were in (yes it is a phase).

why dont they do somthing useful with second life and make a virual supermarket so those who are physicaly restriced can do some shopping more conviniently. Â Looking at virtual life you can see it has so much potential to be useful. Â Instead its full of 13 year old kids pointing and laughing at a flying penis.

alot of people say people who watch big brother are sad and have no life, Â and thats about 8 million people around the UK. Â I dont think it means you dont have a life becuase you play this, but overdooing it is not good for you. Â incidently u2 did an online meet the fans on second life.

hmm. people make OFP addons becuase it takes dedication, skill and commitment. These 2nd life programs are just an escape. if you ask me there dangerous. some people spend too much time on them and there physical life becomes there 2nd life. sad really

ich, it makes no scence, why would god bless the USA over anyone other country? its ridiculous and to be its almost on a parr with extremest Islam, which is worrying becusae we could have a real holy war on our hands. Â perhaps this is a different issue and we should stick to politics. Â

yeh, and calling it the greatist nation ever to exist on the planet is a bit far fetched and really helps to explain the appalling US foreign policy.

the cannon and gunpowder effects are awsome.

I'd believe that when you see it if I were you. Despite the hand over of two provinces, British troop deployments to Iraq remain unchanged. The government has consistently told us that the troops are about to be withdrawn. But not actually withdrawn them. They will all be home by Christmas I expect, just like they were last year and the year before etc etc. Our U.S. alliance is very valuable to us. Our troops won't leave without them. It pisses us off, especially as we think the yanks are making a pigs ear out of their end of it, but we are in it as long as they are. We can't pull out or their supply lines will be compromised. That's not to say our troops won't all be home by Christmas....it would be unthinkable to suggest otherwise. check your information. The Royal Anglican Regiment has recently returned for good and more are being pulled out. Â When you hear of more troops going its becuase theres a 6 month tour of duty so there replacing units not additional ones. Â Spain and Poland are also pulling out of Iraq for good. somthing Bush describes as a victory for terrorism. Â For me it shows the failure of US forign policy. Â Countries are seeing what a mess it is and getting the hell out before it gets worse (which is inevatable). Iraq is relaticly quiet in the south. British soldiers are just policing and border patrolling. The real battle is Afganistan, where the population isnt a problem, the taliban is. We should move all our troops there, where theres a problem which is fixable. And where we are wining, despite what papers try to make out.

I bet you would'nt have gotten too many "yeah, let's invade iraq"-answers out of americans before their administration started beating the war drum. Do not underestimate any goverment's ability to create motivation for a war if needed. Especially a goverment like the one in PRC. Bet you would of. yes . and it shows my point that the USA is more likely to be the agressive one. Â Look at rich chinease families, they send there children to the USA and Britian to be educated becuase they know the future lies in co-operation.