Iroquois Pliskin

Set a temporary course with the mouse while adjusting the Q/Z throttle - micromanagement makes perfect.

I've never been in a situation, where I was not able to tell the state of my injuries, or the stance I'm in. Something is amiss. Like I said, I'm in the selfish business of dreaming the dream of this game thriving, and if you need to mod a game to make it playable, then that's already a nightmare. The number row map ideas are not subjective and I've yet to see an alternative detailed design, which would make playing this game a joy, control-wise.

Pliskin is passing by. I think you mean by physics is: sound, particles and other world/environment simulation. Good sound, realistic particle modeling provide a better experience, than an arbitrary "fear filter" would. The player needs to be reminded of mortality of his character in, as you've said, a physical way: Screen shake while an M1A2 Abrams is driving by (Already in ArmA), proper dust particles kicking up after a bullet hits that wall behind you, amplified bullet crack sound to a certain audible level, making sure the player knows he is being fired at and that the audible effects themselves are very frightening - even if they are to be amplified to "unrealistic" levels compared to real life. ACE 2 introduced another layer of immersion by having tank cannon fire deafen and disorient the player, when he is standing near a tank - that's physical world simulation in general, which gradually builds up respect for enemy fire, even if you don't experience the same effects when a bullet misses you. Remind the player in subtle ways: it creep into the psyche in the end, especially if there's a mission objective worth fighting for, or due to the competitive nature of the event of not wanting to let your team down and then people won't be reckless as some of the people in this thread suggest they are.

The controls for aircraft for keyboard and mouse are perfect in ArmA, the joystick can never be competitive here due to twitchy-ness and precision of the mouse, well not in ArmA anyway. Plus you duplicate your controls on the WASD, which are used for general maneuvering, while the mouse is for precision aiming.

Great! Perhaps you could take a look at number row in-vehicle interaction maps, which I had presented a few posts back to alleviate the scroll Action list problem - we can even do away with it, since the number of Actions would rapidly exhaust itself, what would be left: open/close door, use ladder? There's no reason to duplicate it on GUI with selection of the comfortable passenger seat in a Bradley. ---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ---------- That's the problem of AI command menu, 100% of players use their weaponry, equipment and otherwise have to survive. You start with a single character, with a rifle and equipment - start work from there, you do NOT start the game with 10 AI units in your backpack. The AI command menu can go to hell before basic gameplay is fixed, but we're generous enough to provide an automatic toggle via Unit selection. You haven't played any of the Classics, have you... WASD + 1 to 9 number row keys: you use your middle finger to select equipment from 1 to 3, index finger for 4-7. Millisecond action, you're still in full control of three of the WASD keys and you're able to utilise the mouse movement fully. A menu for weapons selection in combat is a redundant thing and is no better than the scroll list for equipment. ArmA is very twichy first person game, bullets fly at 900 m/s or more, and they even kill in a single hit! Do you want to take the chances? Never. Great, great 3 dedicated keys again, but do provide the exact mapping, which you would use, because we don't have any free keys left and AI command is taking up the prime real estate. Your pinky will be used for the CTRL stance modifier 99% of the time. ---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ---------- It is already present in the game and works f-l-a-w-l-e-s-s-l-y: if you can't run, your legs are gone; if your aim is shaky after sitting there for 10 minutes observing the enemy and you hear a bullet crack, a splash of red on the screen and your aim starts shaking, your arms are gone. What could be done is to amplify these visual effects (See ACE 2), but this has nothing to do with a GUI. Health bar is out the question. Yeah, why not? Three to four screenshots detailing the action of each menu: AI command, Action scroll list, weapon selection. It's a GUI after all. :) Which means? That BIS is happy with the same 2k people who have been playing their game for a decade and that nothing is going to change? I don't quite get the irrationality here.

I'd think the world-character interaction would change in some way. :/ Can't believe it's going to be "miss one step and keep flying on a linear trajectory down the stairs."

So you haven't detailed your Graphical UI rose wheel weapon selection yet. :) Would you be so kind to do it? But be warned: even Counter-Strike has radial-rose weapon/equipment buy menu only at each round start, when the game is paused and hasn't started yet - using that in combat is unwieldy. Stance indicator... Health bar... now this is below the belt for me - there's this game, called Battlefield 3 - I'm not sure whether it has those particular features, but from the screenshots I can tell it is overloaded on Graphical UIs. :icon_mrgreen: Could you please detail it piece by piece, as I have done. :) Has the UI been ever user moddable? I want to see this game get a proper UI with ease of use, logical, fluid control layouts, so that people who try ArmA don't leave in droves due to awkwardness of the interface - that's my selfish dream.

Regarding ragdoll stances - a lot of things can be done with it, including, Heaven forbid, jumping. :icon_mrgreen: The way I understand it, is that your character is no longer tethered to the world/ground as had been the case in previous ArmA iterations. I could be wrong, but the impression given off every time you somehow ended up even a millimetre off the surface, that it was not meant to happen.

Stop by the "Controls Scheme & User Interface Feedback" thread - recent topic, lots of feedback and problems are clearly defined. Main problem is the AI command interface taking up ten keys, which could be used for dedicated weapons/equipment, thus relieving stress on Action scroll menu use, perhaps even going away with it entirely. But if they do skip on improvements to basic gameplay, I think it will be too late to patch, mod or fix anything after release.

Easy implementation would equal lazy in this case. F + Shift/F is technically the same thing - a one-dimensional cycle train with items that should not be there: M203/GP-25, Satchels, Frag grenades. The sole reason we have the F cycle key and the Action scroll list is due to AI command 0-9 interface, I'd say further why it is so, but BIS had been a small studio with perhaps not a lot of Dev time/manpower to spend on developing proper iconography, instead a simple, easy, scroll list had been adopted that has been here ever since. Number row layout is fully customizable, once there's an option for dedicated key-item, key-equipment, key-(in-vehicle)-action, then there's an option on the Developers' part to include customization/maps in the Controls. Something needs to be done about AI command interface, because it jacks up the gameplay for the rest of us. Weapons/equipment functionality needs to be restored as top priority, and then go from there. As defined on page 1, I see it as: 1) Bring some type of automatic toggle for AI command menu to enable weapons/equipment switching on the 0-9 number row; 2) Unload the Action scroll menu of weaponry and equipment; 3) Remove everything from the F key, bar the firing modes; 4) Rework AI command interface: remove commands, reposition them, consolidate further etc. This scroll system is a joke, I've seen and heard grown men stand around while under fire when they had been issued an order, turns out most of the time they were cycling, scrolling or otherwise navigating the interface to carry it out!

Lack of arguments to backup whatever personal fantasies they fancy is the prime cause. You haven't contributed at all to this thread. ---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ---------- Definitely, "Back seat", "Manual fire", "Get out", "Eject", "Driver's/Pilot's seat" is universal across most vehicles, so it should become second nature to WASD. Placing "Eject" so far back at number 9 is warranted due to unwanted accidents, which might happen, but I bet even if Eject has its own dedicated key, that number wouldn't be higher than rate of scroll list-related cock ups. :)

Anything would be better than the scroll list, but if we're going for 1-9 number row weaponry/equipment selection for infantry, wasting the same row by not using it for in-vehicle interaction would be a shame. My proposals have minimum UI work for the Dev team, in fact the weapon mappings alone could be done in two evenings. :icon_mrgreen: ---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ---------- P.S. I don't think ArmA is that kind of game where Graphical UI should be prevalent - it detracts from immersion in the long run, and I don't remember myself having an on-eye Graphical interface when I exit my car / get on a bike, but I did mention a radial wheel Action menu as Problem Number 2 on the first page of this thread - it is up to Devs to decide on the course of their strategy to implement it, if anything.

So, the most sophisticated military simulator wouldn't simulate tactical vests and still have console-like one-dimensional controls? Nice try, though, Carl. :) I just remembered something, holy hell - apart from having weapons/gadget on dedicated 0-9 number row keys, you could also assign all Scroll Action List in-vehicle (inter-)actions to it, Cars, Tanks, APCs, Vehicles in general Key 1 - Driver's seat 2 - Gunner's seat 3 - Commander's seat 4 - Back seat 5 - Get out (ONLY when the vehicle is stationary - feature already present in ArmA) 6 - Manual fire 7 - ? 8 - ? 9 - Eject Transport helicopters, Attack Helicopters, Rotary Aircraft in general Key 1 - Pilot's seat 2 - Co-Pilot's seat (Has the co-pilot seat been confirmed in ArmA III?) 3 - Gunner's seat (Transports Helos ONLY) 4 - Back seat 5 - Get out (ONLY when the aircraft is stationary and on the ground - feature already present in ArmA) 6 - Manual fire 7 - ? 8 - ? 9 - Eject Jets, Airplanes, Fixed-wing Aircraft in general Key 1 - Pilot's seat 2 - Flaps (Cycle through Extend, Extend, retract) 3 - Landing gear (Cycle through Raise Gear / Lower Gear) 4 - To back seat (Cargo planes) 5 - Get out (ONLY when the aircraft is stationary and on the ground - feature already present in ArmA) 6 - ? 7 - ? 8 - ? 9 - Eject !IMPORTANT! - Add 1 to 3 seconds transition (black screen?) delay to ALL of the above in-vehicle Actions to factor in immersion and realism, it also prevents insta-hoping in multiplayer (which BTW is currently possible with the scroll list) At this rate we will exhaust our list of Actions from the scroll menu and it will have to delete itself in shame. You may start singing High Praise to Pliskin right about... now. Thoughts?

ArmA 3 Alpha would be the best testing platform: great infantry ragdolls, smoking-hot, fluid reload and stance animations... Crap scroll lists to operate it all - priceless.

I'm suggesting that, pardon moi Francais, shit interface out the box doesn't do the game any justice, as it doesn't do anything for it in terms longevity of the multiplayer. BASIC GAMEPLAY needs sorting, where do modders come in?! If a person plays ArmA and likes it, but quits due to crap controls and then tells his friends then that's a lot of lost sales. What current system? Scroll lists + F? Good bye sanity. Cycle-jerk (Pun intended)

Most likely a ricochet, which would deal reduced damage. The weapons models are as impenetrable as those trees.

My equally quality reply: Darwinism via inconsistent/incoherent interfaces floats ArmA, though not in the direction of the surface. I think consensus has been reached on the number row, though DMarkwick spoils the party with appearing to disagree, when in reality he doesn't, he wants that along with a rose on-screen GUI. :(

You're comparing a single weapons class-dependent key with 3 possible selections, which you won't be using often, to the most important weapons mechanics in ArmA, which is the F key, that has 7+ item selections, which more often than not sees you d-e-a-d. Everything is relative.

You're exaggerating the problem now, which isn't a problem at all as proven in competitive games. Frag grenades are standard issue for infantry, not sure about smoke nades, so in theory, you'll be operating your nades with a single key press.

Incomparable: I can still select my M203 via a single number key 3 and flush you out; if you run behind a wall, I can quickly cycle through grenades with 5, which shouldn't be more than 1 key tap (1 tap - Frag grenades, 2 taps - Smoke grenade (green), 3 tap - Smoke grenade (red)) All the while my fire selector is operating flawlessly and I gain even more advantage by having everything within reach, such as sidearms etc.

Just some legacy thinking, you can already cycle nades via R in vanilla ArmA II. :) Option 1) is best.

That's a genuine question and it has already been answered several times: you cycle it via 5 key repeatedly. How the mechanic would work is subject to review: 1) either cycle quickly via the parent key (5) without playing any animations; 2) select weapon class, in this case Grenades via 5 and cycle via R key; 3) cycle and confirm selection via left mouse button, which would present a slight safety hazard, but the HUD system does work in other games. See: Counter-Strike Source, this option is on by default, you can disable it in options and it becomes 1). Then left click to throw/deploy and the correct item will be used as selected on the HUD - applies to all of the above cases. While it may seem like a lot of explaining for a very simple mechanic and in the case of multiple types of the same class (grenades) you still need to cycle through them on one key, it isn't the crammed F key with 7 items on it and it does work flawlessly, and is second nature to WSAD.

I'm a vet, the other person you speak of is being irrational. Most of us play, or have played "Real" FPS back in 1999 onward. Guess Who is right, we thought there was some consensus here. Now you tell us, you have no strong opinion on the F key, when it's THE most game-breaking feature and a pain to use. I think I'll cease the discussion for now and let the lurkers and BIS decide as to the merits of my arguments.

You speak of the vets as if they were cripples. :) Why would the old system remain, and more importantly which parts of the system? Do you agree that the F key should be only responsible for fire selection/safety? Do you agree that weapon selection would be completely removed from the scroll list? Do you agree that the former two components would be merged into one and placed on the number row keys - from grenades to satchels to sidearms?

But then you want to duplicate this on a rose wheel, so what it is - both? Wishful thinking. I'm being in "assault mode", because we must concentrate on basic gameplay and the fact that we could miss the train and end up with scroll lists and F cycle again doesn't stick well with me.