IceFire

Your blindness is quite amusing. Do a switch of Christianity and Islam in your post and you'll get something that looks very much like an Al Qaeda press release. You are really no different than an AQ supporter. It's fundamentalism on both sides. Christianity and Islam are very similar. Judaism-Christianity-Islam - the so called "book religions" have the same basic fundamental beliefs and the same code of moral conduct. That's a dangerous mentality that many people have developed. Some people say that they are all different paths to the same place. This is completely untrue and dangerous thing to say. I am not going to preach about the vitrues of christianity(besides your relationship with christ with the added benefit not going to hell) because that would be a waste of time here.

This is the single most stupid thing I have ever read. Christianity has as many, if not more, passages condoning violence, hatred, ignorance and intolerance than Islam. Â That is all that needs said on the subject. Â If you want to debate that, Find another forum or thread to do it in. Â (or PM me.) Â Or, heavens forbid, read the bible. I don't know what version of christianity you believe, but it does not condone murder. I don't know when the last time you have been to church, but I recommend you go pay a visit. But then again, I don't know why I would argue with someone who thinks religion is evil.

You just don't get it, do you? car·i·ca·ture  n.  1.     1. A representation, especially pictorial or literary, in which the subject's distinctive features or peculiarities are deliberately exaggerated to produce a comic or grotesque effect.     2. The art of creating such representations.  2. A grotesque imitation or misrepresentation: The trial was a caricature of justice. tr.v. car·i·ca·tured, car·i·ca·tur·ing, car·i·ca·tures   To represent or imitate in an exaggerated, distorted manner. See it may be satire and fun and witty to you, but it is not accurate. You can't just create the inverse of something and say "well that is the opposite perspective". Both sides, good and evil are completely different. You are trying to draw parallels where there are none.

And for those of you who are trying to draw parrelels between Christianity and Islam. Don't waste your breath. Islam encourages the killing of westerners and people who are not muslem. It is a violent and jealous religion. Christianity is about love and speaks only the truth. We defend ourselves when we must. We won't allow terrorists to kill our women and children. Don't even try to compare the christian faith and islam. It is like comparing scorn and hatred with all that is right. That's all I am going to go on about that. I don't feel the need to discuss christianity as if it is something that is accused.

Considerably less than the number of dead Iraqi civilians killed by US bombs. Yepp, and 80% something of the American public supported the bombing of Iraq. I agree. The problem is in the fundamentalists on both sides. When the shit hits the fan, they get plenty of followers. Do you see however that there is very little difference in principle between you, who support war on Islam because you consider the Islamic culture to be undesirable and an AQ follower who supports war on America because he considers western culture undesirable? We are angry at the terrorists for killing Americans, they kill children, women and babies and killed 3000 americans FOR ALLAH. They hate us because they are hate western influences. Islam detests any form of westernism. They hate us because we are "infidels" to islam. Our anger is a result of being attacked for religious reasons. Their hatred is a result of islamification and antiwesternism. Sure, their are strong feelings on both sides. But the reasons behind them are what justifies them. We attacked them in order to kill the terrorists, not children. The reason we kill terrorists is because we know they are planning to commit acts of terrorism in the west.

Baron, don't edit my quotes like that. If you want to make a point, copy, paste and edit it. Â But don't make it look like a quote from me. Â Regardless, we attacked in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept 11. We are eliminating the terrorist threat. We do not going around intentionally killing civilians. If you can't discriminate between our actions and theirs, then that is like not being able to discriminate between the police going after a murderer.

There is a problem in the Islamic-Western reltationship. That problem does not come from the cultures, but from people like you and Al Qaeda supporters. Yeah, thousands out of hundreds of millions normal peaceful citizens who wish you no harm. There is a smaller percentage of Islamic terrorists in the muslim population than for example the percentage that the soldiers that abused the prisoners in Iraq are of the US military. Does it mean that sexually abusing, beating and killing prisoners is a part of the American culture? While the number of terrorists are not as high as you would like, it is enough to cause 3,000 dead Americans in New York. Also, while everyone may not be a terrorist in the ME, many people do support the terrorists and hate the US. That itself is a serious social problem.

This thread was created slightly as a way to mock Bush's policy of attacking Iraq but not N.Korea. It's comparitave in saying that we are not going to attack NKorea who has WMD, but we are willing to do so in Iraq who supposedly "has none". I am giving the explanation.

As I stated in my post, racism can be about more than whether they are black or white, and your fanatical hatred of Middle Eastern culture fits that perfectly. Whether you want to believe it or not, you are racist. For example, your assertion that every Middle Eastern child is going to grow up as "violent raging fanatics"is clear racism. Your belief that American culture is in someway superior to all the cultures in the Middle East, is equally racist. Really? What about the Iraqi culture was directly threatening you? I'm sure Hitler felt the exact same way. You don't think there is a problem in the Middle East then? You ask what aspect of the culture and islam in the ME is threatening to Americans? Does Sept 11 ring a bell? Â Clear proof of the danger they pose. The fact that there are thousands of islamic fanatics there who will do anything in their power to kill the greatest number of Americans. Â They are 100% resolute in their commitment to terrorism and murder. Â They are willing to kill American women, children, even babies for allah. This is not a problem to you? The reasons I stated above are the whole point of why we are going in there to change their political structure and society. Islamic terrorism is a cancer there and their whole society needs a complete cultural reform. This is not racism. This is fixing a very serious problem that is a real danger to my country and it's people.

The only problem with that is that racism CAN be defined as cultural and or religious persecution, especially calling for the "de-islamization" of the entire Middle East. So indeed. Everything he has said is "racist," and his attempt to call everyone racist who calls him the same is a mere diversion from the facts. He called for the de-islamization of the entire Middle East, and indeed, Muslims can be considered a human group that share a common history (as any religion can), especially considering the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East are Arab, Sunni, Kurdish, etc etc. EDIT: Can we make a stickie just for Icefire's ideological explanations....that would be WAY too much fun! Akira, just as Denoir said, cultural traits are manmade, they have nothing to do with a race. You defined racism as attacking a cultural attribute. This is wrong. I feel bad that little children in the middle east are subjected to the dominant cultural influences that will one day make them violent raging fanatics. They were not born with this cultural attribute, they learn it in their society. Not all cultural aspects are good. Surely the society that has developed in the middle east is not good. And now they are legitimate threats to American lives. When that happens, it is time for us to make changes over there to defend our lives. I am NOT a racist. I simply believe in right and wrong and the country.

As much as I'd love to continue this, I have things to do today. I will continue this later tonight.

Forcing people of a specific race to give up their culture or religion certainly is racist. <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">They are just average Americans who speak plain english and only english. True nationastic Americans. I or they don't even think about where their grandparents or whoever is from. Ofcourse that is a rarity in big cities where politically correct BS is everywhere. So anyone who speaks a second language is then not a "true" American? Are these people polluting your immagined precious and pure "American" bloodline? Tovarish, hating people of a specific race simply because of their race is rascism. Eliminating a toxic aspect of a peoples culture is not. Especially when those cultural and religious aspects are turning poor middle easterners into raging violent fanatics. Even a good deal of people in the ME are white. Â So do NOT accuse this of being some rascist agenda. Â That is your own twisted logic bent out of PC crap or whatever that makes you believe that.

You see religion and culture as part of race? Â Maybe that makes you a rascist. Â Religion and culture are a result of choices and upbringing. Â Race is an entirely different thing. Â I know a few people of different cultural or racial origins who have nothing to do with those religious or cultural origins. Â They are just average Americans who speak plain english and only english. True blue nationastic Americans. I or they don't even think about where their grandparents or whoever is from. Ofcourse that is a rarity in big cities where politically correct BS is everywhere.

ll;k

Beautiful         Now why didn't Bush come out and say that right away?   Because the liberal idiots would never go to war because of their stupid politically correct ideas would be against a war about the defundementalism and deislamification of the middle east. They are not willing to do what it takes in that manner to fight islamic terrorism and the islamic stranglehold in that part of the world.

Well, that is a nice theory, but it has one very fatal flaw. Of the Arab countries, Iraq was the least muslim one. Iraq was primarily a secular dictatorship. Saddam's creed was a form of stalinism. The Baath party have a combined ideology of pan-arab nationalism and communism. Shia muslims were persecuted in Iraq as were many Sunni clerics. Bottom line, if the idea was to get rid of muslim theocracies, then Saudi Arabia or Iran would have been invaded, not Iraq. Maybe so, but it Iraq is secular and nationalistic enough to be the best suited for a nonislamic democratic western style government. It would have then made a perfect base to influence the other middle eastern states.

If you really think the war in Iraq is about terrorists, then there is nothing that can really be said to you... Also consider all the human rights abuses TBA gave for a reasoning to go to Iraq, NK has even worse. Plus throw in the healthy dose of  ACTUAL proven WMD production in NK and there ain't jack in Iraq... Well I think you get the picture... (and if you don't then you are deluded) Hahaha You need to learn to seperate what the Govt has to "officially" say and the REAL reasons to go to war. Sure, on TV what any idiot can watch, they will go on about human rights abuses, and WMD.  They have to say all that stuff to get the "official political" reason to go to war. Read the papers for once where the govt will be more candid. Any intelligent person, even the administration will tell you the real reason we went to war was because we needed to cause dramatic political and social change and reform in the Middle East region.  We went in to break the hold of islamic culture on the Arab states there and eliminate the stranglehold that the muslem religion has on the people there. This is why we are trying to build western style democracy there and eliminate the fundementalist culture that is so dominant over there. Ah... So you support the war to support the rascist ethnocentric Neo-Hitleresque policies of the TBA, which must make you a closet (or outright) rascist and/or Neo-Nazi. Not only that, you support TBA lying to the entire nation about the reasons for war, an illegal and impeachable act. And you must have the reading comprehension of a 6 year-old, as I stated that the reasons they gave were false. EDIT: BTW belongs in the Iraq thread...not Korea No, I read you right. You stated that the reason provided was false.  It was NOT false. It was just not the MAIN reason.  It was an official reason. Now that we have overthrown the Iraqi govt, we have effectively stopped any production or planning or distribution of any WMDs, whether found or not. And I don't know where you got any rascist ideas from. Nothing I said was rascist.  Maybe it is you who is the rascist. Cultural and religious dominance has nothing to do with race.

If you really think the war in Iraq is about terrorists, then there is nothing that can really be said to you... Also consider all the human rights abuses TBA gave for a reasoning to go to Iraq, NK has even worse. Plus throw in the healthy dose of  ACTUAL proven WMD production in NK and there ain't jack in Iraq... Well I think you get the picture... (and if you don't then you are deluded) You need to learn to seperate what the Govt has to "officially" say and the REAL reasons to go to war. Sure, on TV what any idiot can watch, they will go on about human rights abuses, and WMD.  They have to say all that stuff to get the "official political" reason to go to war. Read the papers for once where the govt will be more candid. Any intelligent person, even the administration will tell you the main reason we went to war was because we needed to cause dramatic political and social change and reform in the Middle East region.  We went in to break the hold of islamic culture on the Arab states there and eliminate the stranglehold that the muslem religion has on the people there. This is why we are trying to build western style democracy there and eliminate the fundementalist culture that is so dominant over there. Ofcourse you must get all your information from what they say on the TV(where they have to give out straight official reasonings to everything)

What kind of reasoning could you put up to say I'm wrong? Whatever it is, it's obviousy wrong since the war prevented the possibility of terrorists getting their hands on dangerous weapons of mass destruction.

Wait, you all want to go to war with NK because they have nukes? Oh my god! The situation over there, and the situation in Iraq are TOTALLY different. Iraq was a country with a poorly trained army who really didn't care at all about fighting or anything. They all just dropped their guns, took off their uniforms and walked home as soon as they heard the approach of US troops. North Korea has a huge army of highly trained, 100% devoted soldiers. The North Korean people are not only willing to die for their country and their great general, they are totally loyal to the state and the doctrinal philosophy of their communist revolution. North Korea is essentially a Stalinist state. The amount of love and devotion the people and military have for their leader is incredible. In North Korean schools the professors teach the students about their form of government and it's values in comparison to democracy. They also teach that North Korea wants to have peace and live seperated from other countries within its own ideals, and that it the only reason for its nukes and military is for defensive reasons. Whether you and I believe that is another story. The people there believe themselves to be educated about the happenings of world politics and American political tactics and are devoutly against any American action against North Korea. If the U.S. were to take action against North Korea, it would result in thousands of American casualties. The North Koreans would fight to the bitter death. Plus they have a nuclear arsenal. So in conclusion I see NO reason why we would want to take action against North Korea at this time. I don't believe they would be a threat unless they felt they were threatened. Plus, Iraq is not just about Nukes. The middle east is a hotbed for terrorists. And we are trying to fight a war on terrorism. You are not going to find terrorists in North Korea. Right now, eliminating all terrorists is our major concern.

Whew!! Thanks edc, I downloaded that thing you gave a link for. I deleted everything that it scanned up, and that killed the problem. thanx all.

Everytime I try to log into my hotmail email account, the page automatically switches to this page. http://296f8.ilxt.info/index.php?aid=20009 It's like whenever I go to the hotmail site, it immediately does this. I cannot check email. This is pissing me off. I went into the IE properties and cleared history and deleted webfiles. It is still happening. HELP!

Heh, There's a saying. "If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid".

I used the AdWare thing. Â I did the scan and deleted every file it turned up. The problem still persists. Perhaps I am not using the tool correctly?

Polls taken after the mog incident reported a majority still supported staying in Somalia but Clinton pull them out. Blame Clinton not Bush. Yeah, and I don't see Bush either offering a helping hand to the victims in Sudan... I find it hyppocritical that the entire world is going on about how the US should mind its own business and stop policing the world, but when someone is in trouble, they all scream about "Where are the Americans??". You want us to save your butts, but afterwards you will say "get out". Do you want us to help you with your problems, or do you want us to mind our own business. We can either stay home and mind our own business and quit policing the globe, or we can come and help. But when half the time you are saying "Stay out of other peoples business" and the other half saying "We are in hot water, help USA!", then we decide to use our own judgment and do what we feel is right, good for us, or worth it for us. We are not going to break our backs helping people who may only try to kill us in the future anymore.