-Total-

People seem to have this idea that bodies fly backwards in the air when shot and flop around like rubber balls. It's quite the opposite. When a person gets shot to the point of dying, it's quite possibly the most ordinary looking reaction. They jerk slightly and fall over. No bounce, no exagerated twisting, no time spent in the air, and no wierd bending positions. They just fall over and that's it. And yes, I've seen this first hand on more than a couple of occasions. 3 were due to my M4 taking them down.

As I said a couple of times, ArmA has the potential to be an MMOFPS pay to play. Non payers can play in limited capacity, but full payers will have ot limit to growth. It has the engine. It has the ability for very large maps. Bad part is, I've never paid to play anything, yet I'd be willing for ArmA.

Evo was fun. I played the heck out of it myself. But when it got to the point to where I could defeat it by myself on veteran's mode in about 4 hours....well, it lost it's flavor. Playing AI squad against AI squad was fun in a way, but I had already figured out the algorithm's of the AI in Evo. AI just can't match the creativity, imagination, and unpredictable reactionary chracteristics of the human mind. While I like competition alot, I would pub ArmA2 for the fun of it. A league or ladder would signal me that there was a PvP base in the game. AI is fun, but any Starcraft Vet will tell you tha BattleNet where it's Players vs Players is where the REAL battles took place

Huh?!.. you blame the wrong ones. The broken animations, performance issues and the odd weapon handling are the reason. OFP is better in this things, and CTI player still play CTI in OFP. Even CTITC season 8 will still use OFP, and not ArmA. Acutally, 6 people in my clan bought ArmA. Only one had played OFP. The rest never played it, never cared if it existed. Every one of us enjoyed ArmA. The weapons, the recoil, the potential, etc We ALL quit playing due to the overwhelming amount of CooP on the servers. We paid for a server, advertised PvP, and people kept joining only if Evo was loaded. None of us will buy ArmA 2 unless we see a league or ladder go up for it with more than 1 team signed up. There was a huge ArmA thread on trying to increase the PvP as people have grown bored with Evo and not many other CooP mods could comapre to it's popularity or structure. Infortunately, it was too late for such and effort.

My reply from another thread:

Imagine being on the other team and not having anything that could combat it. Why create an imablance as great as that?

You rerefenced driving a repair truck... Funny, I seem to remember playing nothing but a support role in a pub one night for about 4 hours. Was it as much fun as shooting something? Nope. At the same time, it turned the tide of the battle. We went from getting rolled to actually pushing the line back into their territory. AI CAN be fun, but it's also one of the most debated topics in the game. Personally, I think they did an outstanding job on the AI considering the processing power it takes. There's not much else they can do. Improve their pathfinding? The AI follows the map. Humans have creative thought to venture outside the roadways, trails, and sidewalks. Imagine an ArmA MMOFPS where making rank is not nearly as easy as it is in COD4. You start off as a Private. You are issued only an M16. You have to make 1000 points to reach PFC. The distance between PFC and Corporal is 2500 points. Each rank widens the gap farther and farther out making it a process of MONTHS to make officer. Each up in rank gives you more priveleges (kinda like Evolution). Require training for vehicles and weapons. You are engaged in a battle one evening. Gets late, you go to bed. The following evening, you log on. Either your side won or lost the battle or it's still going on, but the game is not over by a long shot. The battelfield evolves as the players do. Think outside of the existing community. How could BIS make that community GROW in the face of the current marketable games? A growing community = more cash inflow. Any dev studio that says they would not like that is lying LOL! Another Coop AI-based game building up the player base? Doubtful. I talked 15 people into buying ArmA. They all quit playing after 2 months due to the full PvP potential not being used. They got bored directing AI. HOnestly, I did too. That's 15 people who bought the game who probably will not buy ArmA2 if it's ArmA with better graphics. BIS could run the MMOFPS servers. People pay to play to maintain the servers and provide cash for updates. Now, this is not saying that a Coop mode could not be made as well for people who wanna run a dedicated server and play the conventional OFP/ArmA-style play. Actually, alot of people might just play both and enjoy ALL aspects of the game. It just depends on if BIS and those with the greater influence can look past what they are comfortabley used to and carry it a step beyond.

Nobody will ever be happy on how the AI react. This has been stated over and over again as to how it would be impossible to obtain. Other games that have AI that are more reactive than those in ArmA have MUCH fewer AI. Generally, a few hundred fewer. The AI in ArmA are not reactive as you come to them. They are reactive across the entire mission area. Think to Evolution. Until you take out the radio tower, reinforcements come in from the other cities. That's not proximity-triggered AI. Now, try to calculate the processing power it would take to make 500 AI act with human strategic approach and reaction simultaneously. The result - it would require a super computer that doesn't exist yet. You talk of alienation - how about those people who really would like to have PvP-centric action. Why should we be alienated? If ArmA2 were released as an MMOFPS, it would be the only one of it's kind since Planetside. Yes, I would pay to play that. Many others would too. It not only would mean a constantly evolving battlefield, but also would mean BI would be getting monthly income justifying constant updates. They've pretty much pushed the CoOp FPS/RTS as far as it can go. The only thing left is prettier graphics, which will take up more processing power meaning something (aka the AI behavior) will have to be compromised.

How about just release Arma2 with no Ai period? That will solve two things: 1) All the complaining about how AI should act more human 2) It will focus the game on player vs player tactical wars Also, make every vehicle fly as close to realialistically as possible. Stalls and everything.

For those who never played Advance and Secure, but have COD4 - Think Domination, but you have to take the flasg in a particular order. Randomness won't cut it. The coordination and teamwork it takes is probably the pinnacle of ArmA's potential. just wish people woulda grown tired of AI earlier.....

Precisely. Once you learn the algorythmic patterns, it's easy

For those who think we didn't try: The first two Advance & Secure maps submitted to teamwarfare.com ka TWL were created by me THe fact that TWL was trying to start up a league was advertised on these forums by your's trully as well. I advertised our ArmA server on here and other places that it would have PvP maps up. We would sit in there for hours and no one else would join. We would look at the server listing and only Player vs AI would be populated. The only real populated PvP server (I forget the name) was running the Berzerk Mod and usually one hacker would empty out the server. As far as the AI not being scripted? They are. The AI in ArmA are more adaptable in this game than others, but I could conquer Evolution (ranked version in veteran's mode) by myself in about 5 hours. With the rest of us playing, it took even less time. Left side of Parasio with MP5. Get Corporal. Set up a FARP on the hill to the right side of town. Get a Mk2 hummer shoot the nearest squad to make Sgt. Bring up a Mk19 and a missile hummer. Clear the trees with the missiles. Use the Mk19 to kill troops and passing Hinds. Shoot and they hit the ground. Kill them, but kill the sniper first then kill themachine gunner. Watch out for the flanker. Shoot the flanker. By this time, you should have enough rank to fly at least the MH-60 mg. Assign AI to a formation and press forward. Once you make Colonel, get in a cobra with ground support and you have it made. Do not full destroy enemy T-72's and repair them afterwards. Free tanks. Town after town, repeat. It's no more than a glorified first person Real-time strategy game that, once figured out, no longer hold the initial challenge at all. I applaud the effort that is being made to get more PvP, but it's the effort I was making months ago when peope were still oggling and lamenting over the PvAI shortfalls. Once a game's population falls, it cannot be re-susbtantiated by a group of the community. I knew of at least 50 people from the competative side of America's Army and Battlefield 2 who bought ArmA for it's multiplayer possibilities. Most unistalled after a month of waiting. I unistalled 2 weeks ago. I was the last one in .rX^ to uninstall as I was the one who basically talked the others into buying it. Good effort, but it's too late at this point to try to use PvP to revive the player population. I await ArmA 2 and will actively push Player vs Player when it comes out. I only hope that those pushing the PvP side now, will immediately push it then. If a large portion of the community doesn't bring it alive upon it's release, then PvP will not succeed in ArmA2 either.

Actually, my clan was talking about ArmA last night and our disappointment as alot of us got it and really gave it a shot. A couple of us played OFP, but we didn't approach ArmA as some sort of OFP2. We wanted a completely new game and got it. We played invite-level competition in America' Army and all of us competed in other previous games as well. Hackers are part of life in both pubs and match play. They will never go away, so just accept it as an occurance you will run into at least weekly in any game. Example: Hacks are already out for COD4 lol! Our disappointment was in the community and the lack of Player vs Player and the love of Evolution or Evolution inspired mods. We got tired of only seeing people play AI. In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI. So, ArmA, instead of being the End All of massive battles, has become the game that my clan, like many others, unistalled due to the community's love of playing a predictable oppenent - the AI.

Actually, my clan was talking about ArmA last night and our disappointment. A couple of us played OFP, but we didn't approach ArmA as some sort of OFP2. We wanted a completely new game and got it. We played invite-level competition in America' Army and all of us competed in other previous games as well. Hackers are part of life in both pubs and match play. They will never go away, so just accept it as an occurance you will run into at least weekly in any game. Example: Hacks are already out for COD4 lol! Our disappointment was in the community and the lack of Player vs Player and the love of Evolution or Evolution inspired mods. We got tired of only seeing people play AI. In ANY game, once you figure out the scripted behavior of the AI, it's easy to beat. That's why it's AI. So, ArmA, instead of being the End All of massive battles, has become the game that my clan, like many others, unistalled due to the community's love of playing a predictable oppenent - the AI.

America's Army? The game that was fun to play about 7 versions ago? Wanna talk about a game with bugs galore - download AA. I just recently unsitalled it. I played it since the day it was released in 2002. I was in top ten ranked competition for the past 3 years in that game. Believe me when I say that ArmA is so much more than AA can ever be. The only thing that AA has over ArmA is that AI are not a standard in that game. The two missions that involve AI (they are the enemy) are so easy to defeat it's pathetic. ArmA has it's bugs (and different vehicle physics is not one of them - that was a change, not a bug), but it's still far more expansive than anything else out there. It does not have an arcade feel to it and it's not a fragfest in a shoebox. Unfortunately, that's why it's not popular at all.

If ArmA2 advances the gameplay, then why wouldn't I buy it? Has the successfully industry brainwashed everyone into thinking that graphics is the only thing that needs to grow and change? If a sequel does not make the vets of the original learn how to play it all over again, then what purpose does it serve? If a new player comes into a server of a new game where there are a majority of veteran players from the previous title - how long will that player stick around when they get annihilated time and time again by players who already know every aspect of the gameplay and physics? The answer - they won't stay. They will say the game blows, the players cheat, and stick it back on the shelf. The new title will be left with the vets and, as they get bored and stop playing, it will die completely. Out of the 7 people in my clan who played ArmA, only two of us played OFP. The other 5 liked ArmA. They were amazed at the physics and the depth of the game. None of us were really estatic about playing AI though. It was alright for a bit in a relaxing sort of way, but AI are predictable once you figure out the patterns they have to choose from (that's why it's called AI - it can't create and doesn't have imagination!!. But AI play got old quick, PvP never materialized, and too many OFP vets kept saying ArmA sucks. So, 5 of the 7 have unsitalled due to the opinions of the vets stinking up the airwaves. If a game franchise dies - it's usually not the Dev's fault. It's the fault of those who didn't want any change in their beloved game except more eye candy.

I love sequal syndrome LOL! Everyone who played the original wants it to be EXACTLY the same with just better graphics. Those who didn't play the original don't see what the big deal is. I've been online gaming since 1995. Sequal Syndrome took it's toll between Unreal 1 and the first Unreal Tournament (yes, I thought UT sucked). It took it's toll between Warcraft and Starcraft. It took it's toll on Starsige:Tribes when Tribes 2 was released, but I was one of those who though T2 was better. In the end, people hate change. They don't like to adjust or have to start over. To those of you complaining how so much changed from OFP that it sucks - go play OFP. This is not OFP. If it was, they would have called it OFP2. It's ArmA. It's a good game, with alot of potential that's getting wasted due to Sequal Syndrome and player vs AI CoOp missions. I played OFP and, honestly, the vehicles in OFP were easier to operate because the physics were alot less realistic. ArmA's physics are far from mirroring reality, but they're closer than OFP. For the record, AI in an FPS will never react the way it should. A computer is not human and never will be. For one AI to react the same way a human would, it would take too much processing power and lower the perfomance of the game even further. If anyone here thinks they can do better, get your programming degree and write a better game. Until then, play what's given to you and marvel at the fact that this game started off with and idea and one line of code......

It's a disappointment for me, but not because of anything to do with the AI. Personally, I could care less about the AI or the driving of vehicles. I never had a problem with vehicles. I have a joystick. The trick to flying or driving anything is throttle control (do you get in your car at full throttle and keep it full throttle around turns and corners?). ArmA has more realism with it than OFP did. OFP was ridiculously easy in comparison. The best they could do is assign keys for throttle position (0%, 10%, 25%, 60%, 75%, 85%, 100%) to make it easier on keyboard. My disappointment is how ArmA could be the single most challenging player vs player game in it's genre, but the pvp part gets pushed to the side. AI will NEVER react as humans do!! AI will do what they are programmed to do - react with the options scripted in. Until things like surprise, imagination, and a bit of anxiousness can be duplicated in the scripting, then the AI will be exactly what they are now - computer models reacted as per the programming. Humans on the other hand are unpredictable. They are not scripted. They have imagination. They adjust. They are creative. AI-centric was cool for OFP, but the focus on AI is going to kill ArmA....if it hasn't already.

Let me start out by saying that I really enjoy Evolution, mainly for the reasons stated int he post directly above mine. At current, I have 3.1+ uploaded on our server. What I dislike about Evo, is once you figure out the expectations of the AI in a city, then they are easy to defeat. I can defeat Evo with myself and two AI now. Anything involving AI is going to become predictable over time. That's another draw to Evolution, one knows what to expect and there is a comfort of familiararity in that. That's also the downfall of PvP multiplayer in ArmA.... I look at ArmA not in the casual pub mindset, but rather I look at the potential it has in forms of structured gameplay in matches and scrims. The potential is almost limitless expecially with new maps being released. I have made some AAS missions and, honestly, I don't know if my team could succeed at them. And these were made by both a mission editing novice and an ArmA novice. But, I am an FPS competitor for around 10 years. For me, it's where I find the most fun. The allure and the ease of the coop missions in ArmA has killed any chance of organized PvP in this game and that is probably the greatest tragedy in ArmA. I see post after post complaining of bugs with the AI, but (aside from the need for an effective anti-cheat), there's very little discussion on the PvP side. People are challenging. Whether they are part of your squad or on the opposing team. There's the allure for me. Maintaining cohesion in my team while trying to break down the same of the opposing team. Think about it. You're squad of 8 is engaged in a match up against another organized squad. Your team has ground forces, some medium armor, and an AH-6 for helo cover. The other team has the Redfor equivalent. You just took out the enemy BMP, but you vehicles was damaged in the process. It's imperative you get your vehicle to the objective area in order to fortify it. You call to your teammates who now have to take the people designated as a supporting role to get the BMP back up and running by bringing out the repair and fuel truck (or maybe a FARP as in Evo). Either way, the coordination and management of team resources would be vital. Espcially since you just couldn't assign an AI to do it, while you kept fighting. Unfortunately, I am a minority who looks at ArmA's PvP potential. Maybe if Killjoy made another Evolution centered around PvP, maybe people would give it a shot just because of the name Evolution.... I doubt that will ever happen though and ArmA will slowly fade away as more people bore of the AI wars.

My wife used to play America's Army with me and was on TS. Yeah, it could get a little racey, but she learned to take it in stride and was soon considered "one of the guys"

Check your PM Inbox

TBH i'd say there to much PVP out there and it about time co-op ruled over it in one game atleast. No Offense  No Offense taken I keep looking at ArmA from a competition point of view. Beyond the team death match aspect. The coordination and strategy it would take to beat another team of actual human players in an objective orientated mission would be immense. Most games these days are speed-shoot games. Unlike BF2, ArmA is not an arcade game. It would provide one heck of a challenge to competing teams. I have already made 3 missions using the Advance and Secure templates that 16AAB provided. When my teammates came in and we were done tweaking it, we all agreed that it would be very difficult for either team of 5 to ever gain control of all three flags the way I laid the maps out. Playing with AI can be a relaxing way to chill out for a while, but face it - the AI in ArmA are not the smartest of soldiers lol! Even on Veteran's mode, once you figure out the pattern the AI is expecting, it's easy to flank and defeat them. Nothing like shooting at an AI and it laying down in the middle of the street instead of jumping for cover. Bang - another kill. Of course, AI ebing able to see through trees and smoke is a bit agitating. People on the other hand are going to find cover. People cannot shoot through blinding objects or effects. People are not predictable and tend to change their patterns of attack and defense. I can fully understand the Pro-AI stance, but pelase understand mine. I am looking at ArmA's full potential in PvP, not jsut a portion of it

Missions with no AI on either side Game has too much potential to go CoOp only. Especially with all of the AI complaints.

Our server bounces between public and private. It's a 10 player server and, when going public, we will have people of less desirable traits join. Some hack, some are foul mouthed, and others have no concept of teamwork. We tolerate those not hacking and kick those who are. The reason for tolerating the others is that it's a small price to pay for maybe getting player vs player going in the game. I've competed in America's Army since it started in competition shortly after it's release. I competed in Tribes 2 and Battlefield Vietnam. It was Unreal Tournament, Battlefiel 1942, and Strasiege Tribes, and Unreal 1 before those. Egotistical morons and cheaters existed in numbers in every one of those. A safe, cordial, and cheat free enviroment will not exist in online gaming for the reasons I posted above. If the majority wants the game to grow, then suck it up and police servers ourselves as admins. You think punkbuster does a good job in America's Army? LOL!! The day a new patch is released, the updates to the undetectable hacks are ready for release. Quit relying on BIS to provide a miracle cure. Whatever they insitute on the software side, cheaters will find a work around. America's Army has encrypted almost every file of the game and the hackers still find it easy to get around. Enforcement of fair play is up to the community of fair players.

Let off of your forward motion key completely before going to a crouch or prone. You will stop faster and get into your combat stance sooner. I figured this out probably the 2nd day I played. Workes everytime