scubaman3D

I see, you're an idealist. You think the world will frolic and live at peace after the evil capitalist empire has fallen? What about my statement regarding McCain is unclear? I disagree that we are loosing. I think we have to put some hard work into making Iraq work and I'm one of those idealists that democracy can eventually develop there - unless you think there is something inherently wrong with the Iraqi people... Call me an optimist. And the obama campaign is built, in part (even in your eyes), that we have lost the war in Iraq and that he will end it. Therefore a win in Iraq will mean one of his running platforms will no longer resonate in people's opinions. If we win in Iraq, its bad news for his campaign. Therefore I say a win in Iraq is a loss for obama.

Or, God-forbid, did Bush's plan for a surge actually work, and its ok to now start a drawdown. I know, this is an unthinkable alternative - that he might have actually done something right. Scorpio I think McCain is stating to his commitment to victory in Iraq, and he used a hyperbole to drive his point home. This is in contrast to democrats like obama who seems to think we were defeated in Iraq. A win in Iraq is bad news for obama, so why would you want a US president to have interest in the loss of our war overseas? Anyways, all you've managed to prove is that before Palin was picked for VP, she wasn't exactly sure what the VPs role is. In contrast to Biden, who still didn't know as of last week. Also, this business about the US falling. For your sake, you should hope not. The world's economy is a house of cards the whole thing will crumble after a US crash.

To begin with, if thats all you care about in the context of this election, I'm afraid you're being slightly obtuse. Anyways, from what I've read, Bush has already instituted a plan to gradually drawdown troops from Iraq over the next 2 or 3 years, I believe. He plans on taking something like 4,000 or 8,000 out before he leaves office. I guess Obama's thunder has been stolen already. General Petraeus is saying more cuts could come next year - a decision the next president will need to make. Oh, and you know that because Palin hasn't traveled abroad as much as Obama, she can't possible understand other cultures and therefore couldn't possibly function as a VP. Is this seriously your argument? Also, at least Palin knows what the VP does, unlike Joe Biden: http://washingtontimes.com/news....e-wrong

But then, that's not really the point, is it? And how does Obama living in a foreign country for 4 years equate to foreign policy experience? Obama has been in the senate for what, three years. He has been campaigning for 1.5 of those 3 years and he is supposed to be more qualified and experienced than McCain, who has been there for 26 years or Palin, who has actually governed something before?

Well this I agree with. When "American Idol" gets more votes than the US President, you know we live in a sad state of affairs.

I have read stories of Russian bombers or fighters approaching the airspace and then being escorted away by US fighters - so you're right, thats what I was thinking about. One example: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/03/26/us.russian.planes/index.html Now, as to your point that this doesn't translate to experience. I will restate my point for the "who-knows-how-many-ith-time": Â However little experience she actually has, its still more than Obama.

This was discussed a few pages ago. She is referring to the probing of US anti-air defenses by Russian military aircraft over Alaskan territory.

old

my bad.

So then froggy, you don't agree with the bailout plan, since its not truly fiscal conservatism?

snafu: Why would we expect a system from Ireland to work in the US? The two countries are completely different in so many ways, I barely know where to start. You are more than welcome to repeal the amendment, if you'd like. Unfortunately, for you, an amendment to the constitution is the only way to take guns away from people. I personally own 3 rifles and 2 shotguns. I also stand to inherit several handguns from my father - though I do not own any of my own currently. I can also proudly say I have not once pointed one of my firearms at a person, nor have I ever threatened or been threatened by anybody with a gun. I have completed two firearms training courses for civilians and I am legally capable to keep arms in my home. Chops: Nobody is preparing for a coupe. If you want to know my opinions, seriously, PM me. I'm also on skype often in the evenings.

Hell yes. They answer to us and they should never forget that. Its something that you may never understand unless you were raised here.

Well why are Russia and China building their respective militaries at a rate more comparable to wartime than peace time? Do you think they intend to challenge each other, or do you think they intend to challenge the US?

haha, she seriously said that? Ok, I'm honestly disappointed.

Hey congratulations, let me shake your hand. Your one of an enumerable amount of people who has come to the US as a tourist. I've been on vacation to Turkey and Russia, among others, and I know my country is a better place to live than those. Again, you're being over critical by belittling the role the US has played in improving the conditions for a good portion of the world, post WWII until present day. I'm sure your country could have defeated Germany and the USSR without our intervention   x2

Yeah, this is really lame B. I'm sure I could drum up an equally crappy list of thing your country has regretted.

Well you should vote for Obama. He stands for change too. http://radioactiveliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/obama-change.png

So are you saying I'm just over reacting to your criticism and you're actually more US-friendly than I am interpreting your statements? Boy, that would be something - if this whole argument was just me thinking you were being over critical, but you really weren't.

Unfortunately in the world, perception is reality. But your perception can be changed by experience. Thats why I said I've seen enough to know... My wife, from Russia, had no idea how bad she had it there until she moved here.

But definitely not by you. You prefer to belittle our contributions and focus only the negative attributes. At lease I am reasonable enough to acknowledge that we're not perfect, but I've seen enough of the world to know we're a hell of a whole lot better than most other places out there.

I could see if I can dig up my old test setup soldier. PM if interested. Also, the camo is an interesting pattern but it does look very big. You sure that its supposed to be like that Do you have a pic of the real stuff?

Lets recap, because the point to this entire conversation has already gotten lost in a myriad of details and bickering. My initial statement was if "the rest of the world" so much dislikes the US, then why do they take our help? I said this because several people had brought up some diluted fantasy that Obama will repair the relationship between the US and "the rest of the world", which really means "the opinions of people in foreign countries, who don't vote or pay tax in the US" So I say, if we are really that bad, why do people insist on our involvement in international matters of crisis and security? If Bush is so bad and the Republicans so corrupt and our motives so selfish, why wouldn't people say "thanks, but no thanks" to our offers of help? All you see is negative reporting and never a good word about US. Then the perfect example of this exact behavior was the effort to belittle the contributions we make by snafu and chops. They have said "well the US isn't generous enough". Provided some statistics about a kind generosity index, where the US doesn't come in 1st place. And completely ignored the astounding dollar amount we have given internationally. Also we were told by snafu that the economy of Europe was improving even without the help from the US after WWII, that Europe wouldn't necessarily have been threatened by communism and the American motivation wasn't pure enough. So now here you are telling me that I shouldn't try to prove the US is "the best" because of the aid we are giving - but that's not really what I'm trying to do, is it? My point is that we are looked at as the leader of the west. People line up for handouts and turn around to curse us. Its upsetting.

This exact thing is taking place in North Korea. The gobs of food we send there is being sold to the people, instead of given, or it is being used to feed the military. There was some undercover journalist who had sneaked across the border from china to video tape this happening and then back across to China. I think I saw it in a documentary on National Geographic last year. If we protest and say that we are going to stop sending aid, they launch a missile or detonate a nuclear bomb or threaten to invade the south. Its basically blackmail and yeah, as an American who has to pay for that food that is being used to strengthen this madman Kim, it is maddening. -snafu- Are you saying that Europe would have been fine if the US just up and left after WWII and didn't help? You know...that is a very difficult position to defend. I know you don't like the US but this is extreme.

d'oh! If it was UV mapped I would take a run at the textures. Anybody want to UV map?