mxbean

Titles, definitions, meanings, there is a word called research, according to the Wikipedias definition here in small words basically: "a large number of players interact with one another in a virtual world" and "persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game". Hmmm, it's almost synonymous ONLY to: WoW, EVE online, Silkroad, Anarchy Online, Guild Wars, Mu online .... bla bla bla,,, and about a 100 or more. Most of them are fantasy based sort of Zelda, Fable, Enclave and others if you have played them. What, are you guys still viewing this topic with those eyes ? Come on, let's go back to the first paragraph, the definition, Many players interact in a virtual world ?, like yahoo chat, IRC or like Quake, Unreal, BF, OFP and many many others. In the second definition "Persistent World even if the player is not logged in", what is that a joke iv'e seen the gameplay and tried it, sorry but I don't have the 10 hour a day (or more) time to level up my character to the next armor level so people can see my greatness in again the virtual world but, persistent it looks the same to me, no change in the buildings, NPC (non player character) just standing in the same place, selling some of the same stuff !!! immune to my effort to sucker punch him and take the loot by force ?? talk about limited so called persistent world, ok YES it's persistent all right, the same thing over and over killing the same monsters that never stop spawning, of course with less effort once I'm a level 480000 with all the 6 to 10 months effort of the same persistent world. Your guys are right, OFP/Arma should not be like that or follow in the same footsteps, so get your creativity going and don't think about what you've seen, think about what you want to make it more interactive in a Modified optional connected environment. Not so much as BF stats thing. more like "Stickler" ideas The game would not be persistent in the same respect as you might think but more unpredictable, the buildings can be configure differently, the vegetation change according to the virtual climate or warfare erosion, you could set up factories witch you may operate and decide on the product and research to be performed, manage sea ports, the local mini market, transport fuel and supplies to the other team members. You could be a ranked up NCO with your AI (of course the AI you receive could be high in intelligence and engagement distances "damn nothing like getting your AI team to take out a Rambo player at 400 meters or more, so when you decide to engage the enemy AI you better have twice the support or more if you are in dis-favorable terrain, no more "the AI is stupid", it may lack creativity in tactical situations but it can be made to engage a lot quicker than it currently does and with the help of human player directing the fire, well you get the point...) What, am I getting carried away ? are you sure ? do other game support this ? can you do that and more with those MMORPG ? This can be done with OFP/Arma,,, Now !!! it may be a use up name 'mmorpg' well don't called it that, called it what ever you want, after all Multiplayer, Persistent, Character ranking RPG, it is not limited to what you think of it now, it's just a definition it does not dictate GAMEPLAY... What, when you play OFP/Arma, are you not playing Multiplayer, Persistent world ? Character ranking of course if you in a clan, experience that too, mostly to yourself because you know more the a noob how to take out a T72, or what different servers don't make it massive only because they are not connected* *(please read other post by me on this topic 'data sharing servers'.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.. by all means I did not sugest a total permanent conversion just 1 more Mod...(IMO the biggest witch every one could take part at different times or sessions an will affect the outcome in there little part of a map) I was thinking some sort of map to map data sharing wich "BIS if it wants could build it for us" ... as this is possible with "FWATCH" to make the "SAME OFP/ARMA" even bigger an more capable and of course the open ended Modding would stay... I only got a Little carried away by the same possibilities of the game. In a nutshell... CTI/CTF/Roleplay/DM/TDM and any MOD could be integrated depends on you preference in a big battle spanning several maps, some of you would say, it will not work, to much trouble, people will not bother and a hole lot of stuff to make this work... I am personally more incline to a Realism battle... CTI is more my thing... 'CTF-DM ' is not... it's fun but the game offers more than that. I am personally very interested in this type of Mod/Campaign because is just not a session but several battles with a global purpose. for now I commented on the possibilities, not a definitive plan. I have some drafts about the design all of witch build on the more capable Mods... My wish is not to rebuild the wheel but to make them more universal for those who wish to play another Mod. Forget WoW and all others (I fine those things boring and sickening... I just don't like them but if you guys do I respect that.) If OFP/ArmA did not have all that scripting support, freedom of action, AI's an its orders structure... I would not be writing this. or playing the game. Forget the tittle MMO and it's typical method of control this is not about that...

Well I've played Battleground Europe (WWIIOL) and think it's a cool game, the sound engine and physics are high quality, the vehicle hit points, the models great, but... it's no OFP/ArmA in this respect: ...No AI To Assist You...(ride with you into battle) except for the fixed ones in the cities, yes you could team up with some other guys but normally for infantry for example they are pretty far apart in my experience anyway, no unit "Cohesion" witch is normal in multiplayer games where people seldom play as team only interested in the individual points and ranks..."like me " but that’s how we are right, take the case of mini-battlefield. I know there are some that play as a team, don't get me wrong, just a simple point, CTI is more team dependant I think. MMO games what does it mean? 100's, 1000's, zillions of players? for OFP or ARMA I personally would settle for company size battles in a given map per side, 200-300 player-AI-Civs total, including vehicles, if possible. (more like 20 vs. 20 human players or more if posibl and the rest being AI's). The only time I’ve seen the so called 1000-3000 or more players online is in a game listing, yeah when a was flying a mission in WWIIOL city by city I could see in my side anyway, 20 here, 50 there, 5 tanks heading toward a city and so on...witch is a progressive render of players when you are near them, may be there where 1000's but I didn’t last long for the total count. WWIIOL it's a cool game but no "AI" ..... AI is the main reason I play OFP/ArmA, they are there when your human teammates are in a different time zone or are busy, they don’t get tired and they will obey your order no matter how "smart" it is “When I was playing WWIIOL, I missed something in the huge map... my AI’s …" Here's an example of a game witch has the 1000's of players connected (I said connected not all on the same World or Gamebox witch is the thing your in while you play, of course there other games like WoW witch you travel the world and come up with 100's of players but they are not all rendered in your view until your close to them, called progressive rendering. Back to the example.... In EVE for example witch is cool if your into that, you log in to the main server witch is the main session, once your there you travel from solar system to solar system via jump gates (hmmm looks like "logout/login") in a virtual galaxy divided into solar systems witch we will call "sub-sessions" this design permits and supports the 1000's of players at any given time, they are just not in your same aahhh,,, “sub-session†or "game box" but you actually move (warp) from "game box" to "game box" in a big-ass global server with a bunch of mini servers (virtual or not) under it... so you actually coexist with about with some 100 or more player in the same game box, probably a lot more , but hey it's all connected right. (the keyword is connected)... So does OFP/ArmA support this Hmmm.. My suggestion: Not in the Kernel level (BIS property), no JIP (except ArmA), but yes It can be made to "simulate" a huge multi-session (maps) battle with global strategy reports and orders like WWIIOL !!! or better actually this is “BIS Architecture remember your PBO’s the limit†…. How ? simple in concept... ONE WORD ... Kegetys "FWATCH" "ok that's 2 words",,, with it there is no reason that different game sessions cannot be linked, the outcome of battles will in effect influence the other it does not have to be in real time but it can be... example: Island X "We've captured the airbase expect lots of CAS support on other Islands (server X updates server Y with "FWATCH") either real time or in a sort of game turn on a global scale, hey just like a football game “soccer for the Gringos†the teams do not all play at the same time in the same field or do they?. On your other point Connors, Planetside... have not played it but I think and EVE-BF2142 mix ... But plz correct me if I'm wrong "...NO AI..." or yes BIS guys...!! It CAN be made into a MMPOMRPG "Massive Multiplayer Persistent Online Military RPG"!!! or whatever you want to call it. (Without the point and click limitation) all events important to the war effort, commerce and other factors connected. Well with all those words said thanks goes out to all who don't limit themselves to what's shown, but who seek and create new paths to extend an excellent game-simulator that can be made to whatever you want it to be. (well almost). Ok I'm done... PS Spoock you said: "little MMO"... why ?? (another suggestion ambitious at that... but cool and related to this topic) It could be bigger and far reaching... ..Oh yeah about the size of the world in WWIIOL... (witch is about 100's of times bigger than Nogova) think about this: is it really bigger than OFP/ArmA? it is irrelevant actually there is no reason the 256/512 cell size (12.8Km./25.6Km.) in the BIS games will limit you to move only 12.8 Km or 25.6Km ("only" is an under statment ). You could actually have a map the size of 128 Km. or 256 Km. with same cell size... or ten times as big ... how? look at WWIIOL, the flatness of the world, the simple looking mountain peaks, ring any bells ?? make the OFP/ArmA units 1/10th their regular size, including basic vegetation, flat terrain great 'frame rate' and again you will get in theory, 10 times the regular View Distances. Imagine that, instead of regular MP 1200 meters how about 12000 meters with that little trick if it can be made to work... and small mountain objects to simulate the rolling hills or something. You can guide your TOW, Milan, Spandrel (AT-5) or whatever to go to it's 15 sec. flight time (OFP limit) out to a range of Ahhh. 3500-4000 meters? or how bout, Long Range Tank Gunnery (Grrrr) and of course long range Tank Busting with your little Choppas... I Think It's Scary if not cool. No more Mr. solo Rambo I got my 2 Abraham's and I'll just bust through huh ?... again If in theory it can be made to work. Hey look at Falcon 4, Lock On and others... they seem to fly fast... But as Einstein put it "It's all relative to the position and speed (size too) of the observer etc." and if done, now we will finelly run out of fuel and fly really high and be able to see our tiny target without exposing much to the AAA. If add-on makers can make player controlled chickens, there is no reason they can't make hand grenade size Units, and binocular size Hummers, or on the other side of the coin Godzilla size General Guba ... Ok I got carried away but blame OFP for that Hey there could be some special Islands for the above examples just to make the missions more multi-capable Air Strikes and what not. All this with your friendly and not so friendly AI to keep you company. Talk about "Fantastic Voyage" well that was way smaller and inside of the veins of an old dude. I realize this is a major feat but it would work great in Air and Sea Battle where distances make the strategy better (challenging) … those dudes pushing for smaller cell size well I don’t know, more polys to process?, it may be limited to a game box like BF2 to small for a cool transition from theater to theater. battle theater that is!!! Quote : “You are limited by your imagination, not your hardware†by me Sorry for all those opinions I got more to say but that’s it for now… I think these are doable suggestions without wishing for a Magic BIS Ferry to do it all for Us… I realize they are working hard to satisfy the most demanding requests, thanks goes out to you BIS and the people who build on OFP/ArmA.

Well I think trying to make it like a WoW, Silkroad, Guild Wars or any other so called massive persistent worlds would make the OFP experience just a clone of the basic character handling of the other MMORPG games (point and click thing) except for EVE online witch is IMO a great game design in the way you control your own ship... (again point and click thing) But to use it for fantasy characters as it is now or OFP ?? No thanks... you've got to understand that the way MMO's are controlled similar to some RTS (point and click thing) games in witch you point and click to move or attack. The reason is it used in MMORPG's is simple enough for the low bandwidth required to control your actions witch permits all those players to be virtually active in the same server in witch the server only gets a limited input from the players instead of constant input such as the "W", "S", "A", "D" plus Camera movement and some more stuff in games such as OFP. COD, BF2 and others (flight sims. etc.) There are others MMO's witch you have real time movement control, such as Guild Wars, But tell me this, when did you see the 500 or 1000 player on your screen, Hmmm ? if you look at the requirement for example Ragnarok with 200 players (15-20 Kbits for each player "Up/Down" plus overhead) = 4000 Kbits or more connection at the server side to handle the inputs at a given time if all players were interacting in the game. Now take OFP, if our rigs could handle 200 players, plus vehicles, plus Scripts and some other stuff, with the server also capable of it, and a client side connection minimum of 38-70 Kbit! Hmm lets see 200*70 Kbits = 14000 Kbits at server side,,, so it's a simple example of why the MMO games permit so many players logged in without the apparent effects of lag well most of the time and of course super duper server clusters. I'm not an IT guru but its simple math right. all values are hypothetical of course. But this is by no means the end of the road for a Massive Persistent On Line Campaign Driven OFP !! no sir... there is a way to do it. I would like to hear your comments ... actually its pretty simple. Hint: I don't need to see 100's of troops at a given time...

Interesting question probably the most significant of all in any forum... "That is the question ...." we of all ages either young and old maybe from 10, 12 up to 50 or more years play around OFP and other shooters (I know OFP is more than that) but still we manage to get the adrenaline pumping when we click our mouse and blow up a few virtual victims (oh its fun all right ... ) it does give us some felling of satisfaction. In real life... well let see... for my family and loves ones I would resort to it if they were under threat, after all think about it almost all animals will kill without hesitation even risking its own death in the defense of their young cubs. But for country ... That's another question it does not take much to see the horror War can do to people "the non combatants primarily" with all the videos on the the net... you may consider if you could do the same thing.

I think that recovering from a wounds would be great maybe even being out of action for a period of time in a campaign or even in a multi-player session... here's how I think it would be anti boring: First off you have a roster of specialist troops, your 12 unit more or less in reserve, once you go down wounded you can respawn nearby the main base with another specialist (a sniper maybe) while ur other body gets hauled back to the nearest med station by other AI (hhmmm sounds kool..) for recovery, amputation etc. or maybe even some players may take these roles of CASEVAC to the nearby stations. How? well take the snippet from Solus Script "exellent by the way" for casualty evac. (with permission of course). Obviously some needed tweeks and penalties would be in place if the opposing team opens fire on the the Meds. themeselfs once the main engagement has ended... Maybe Skine some Civ. units with military fatigues to take care of the Medical business to prevent the enemy AI from blowing them away. It could work in Multi and Single player. Where is the fun? if your a medic you'll get nice little points for saving AI the life. Maybe have some engineers take up the role of towing and repair for vehicles... PS. if you loose your AI reserve u take up the role of medic or engineer depending on what's needed decided by a script. of course once the AI is healed you may respawn in your own unit with somewhat less capable aiming system (annoying movement).

One of the most useful addon that i've been wishing for ... It's always been hard for me to keep the firefight going on for more then 40 sec. (using default config without tweeks on the dispersion values) or so when I'm in a mission to defend some area, normally I play with low terrain detail in order to have a lot more units in action, have payed with "very high terrain" and its kool to see how the AI gets around in order to get a good position but you know about the high poly count and it's lag issue Question: does your addon have a value such as bushes have for the AI to seek cover (hide) between it and the threat like Tank or a Gunship?? I've seen it work when I'm in a Hokum and closing in to the AI, them seem to hide, if i move behind them they go around an hide again, looks very good but only with big threats (cost) such as Gunship I think ... "thanx again for your very useful initiative"