Shortsighted ATGMs

[Dark-Light 10]

Hi, I've been a long time player of OFP, and ARMA. ARMA 2 is a big improvement over both in many areas and is a lot more fun as a result, but there is one particular annoyance that has been driving me up the wall, ATGM range. Why is it that a BRDM-2 with konkurs missiles (max range 4km) cannot target and shoot a tank in plain sight from barely over 1000m estimated? Tanks are fine and can engage well over this range with their main gun, as can BMP-2's albeit with their cannon. It sort of makes the BRDM, and vehicle mounted ATGM in general pointless because they have to be practically running into the target before they will fire.:(

Still best game of its type out there though:cool:

[Dark-Light 10]

Ok, its definitely a problem with sight distance as far as I can tell - assigning a spotter of greater rank to a vehicle not using its long range weapon can 60-70% of the time result in acquisition and consequent destruction without any unnecessary movement.

BIS should definitely look into that. Modern AT platforms do not need separate infantry spotters.

[mchide 0]

Rockets are much slower than tank shells mate...

There is allso one nasty bug on AT rockets like Maljutka, TOW ... its there from Arma1 version 1.0. Bug was not present in OPF... You simply can not guide rocket by hand on distance more than 1500m. Rocket stops responding and starts to fly like crazy.

Most modern AT sistems work on more than 1500m. I think engine code needs to be checked since in configs all is ok.

Maljutka range is around 3000m (depend on version) and rocket need for that distance 28seconds.

For sample... i fixed way to fast Javelin in Arma1 with only config. But note this weapon is not handguided and works perfect.

class CfgAmmo  
{	
class M_Javelin_AT;
class M_Javelin_AT_N  : M_Javelin_AT 
{
	maneuvrability = 6; // could be more...with this vaulve, hit on bmp on 800m in full speed 70-30%
	simulationStep = 0.001;
	timeToLive = 25;
	sideAirFriction = 0.100000;
	trackOversteer = 1.0;
	trackLead = 1;
	maxSpeed = 217; //217.39m/s  =  1000m in 4.6s      //    137.93 m/s  =  2000m in 14.5s 
	initTime = 0.35;
	thrustTime = 3.5;
	thrust = 66.95;  // thrust to hit 2000m v cca 14s
};
};
class CfgMagazines
{
             class CA_LauncherMagazine;
 class Javelin  : CA_LauncherMagazine 
 {
	initSpeed = 15;
	ammo= M_Javelin_AT_N;
};
};
class cfgWeapons 
{
class Javelin  : Launcher 
{
	modelOptics = "\Slo_fixbis\bisfix\optika_Javelin	
	nameSound="atlauncher";	
	model = "\ca\hotfix\javelin_launcher";
	opticsZoomMin =  0.062500; // optic 4x 
	opticsZoomMax = 0.062500;
	opticsZoomInit = 0.062500;
};

};

[frederf 0]

The problem with the TOW-style ATGMs is in how they are designed. The missile tracks a target destination on an invisible 1500m stick connected to the TOW turret. The problem is that at 1501m the destination target goes quickly from directly in front of the missile to very much behind it like a car passing a sign on a freeway.

The missile then attempts to turn to hit this new target behind it and the controls programmed into the tracking logic are reversed and the whole thing goes batshit insane.

[Pyrodox 0]

The problem with the TOW-style ATGMs is in how they are designed. The missile tracks a target destination on an invisible 1500m stick connected to the TOW turret. The problem is that at 1501m the destination target goes quickly from directly in front of the missile to very much behind it like a car passing a sign on a freeway.

The missile then attempts to turn to hit this new target behind it and the controls programmed into the tracking logic are reversed and the whole thing goes batshit insane.

So we need a bigger stick?

[frederf 0]

Or a variable length stick that goes from the launcher to the target. Imagine if the TOW launcher was a laserDesignator and the TOW missile was laser lockable. It's not how they work in real life but the behavior in ArmA2 would be better.

[manberries 0]

Half life 2's rocket launcher used a laser target follow scheme as well, and when fired straight on acted very much like a tow; so i see that as a possible fix definitly. The real problem with range in this game is that the models are not drawn farther than 2000m (actually less than that!). So it would be all nice and dandy to guide it from 4km, but there would be nothing to guide it agaisnt. Fire and forget missiles could target something thats not physically drawn though, and solve that issue somewhat. Reminds me of trying to take out a helicopter thats just flying too high.

[galzohar 31]

Fire and forget also have the issue of no kind lock indicator on expert difficulty, making them incredibly unrealistic as IRL they have at least some kind of way for you to know that they're locked onto something. Non-expert difficulty has much worse lack-of-realism-issues so lowering difficulty isn't a solution.

[Dark-Light 10]

I think unfortunately its probably too much to ask to get a missile 4km on target via AI launch with this engine, but that is easily acceptable since the undulating terrain and copious high forests naturally make a closed fighting environment from a fly by wire point of view. Still, would be nice for missile equipped vehicles to see targets on their own at distances greater than 500m. A BRDM-2 ATGM in game can hit an M1A1 at about 900m, it just cant detect it on its own that far out. I think 1500m is a pretty reasonable distance for detection by all anti armour vehicles, as the game makes things look further away than they are anyway.