How many Layers tested?

[bravo 6 0]

The green color represents the multiple of 4, ie, the number of layers theoretically possible to use for our 'Mask_lco.png'.

What i would like to know is, in maximum, how many layers were already tested without problems?

I ask this because i think 12 will not be enough for my demands.

I may need to use 16 or 20 layers, but i also would like to ask if add per example 40, will it lag more just because of that?

[Romolus 0]

May I ask how you come to the conclusion that only a multiple of 4 layers can be used for the layer mask?

[bravo 6 0]

hum...

I got the impression that multiple of 4 layers was required

Am i getting crazy?

Damn! if multiple of 4 is not required i did some confusion while reading in slopes.

*sad*, sorry for this confusion.

ps- in other hand this is good news though.

But the main question still remains, if i add 40 layers will the map lag more due to it?

edit: its a damn coincidence because in Rahmadi theres 4 layers and in Sara we have 12 (plus 1 more paa with no rvmat)

edit2: i think i got that impression from here:

Quote[/b] ]With terrain grid 10 and texture grid 40 the satellite segment size needs to be a multiple of 4.

Editing Layer Map and Satellite Map

and maybe i got confused after reading in slopes.

[Nicholas Bell 0]

Not sure how layers figure into this. Maybe you're thinking of the fact that the mask_lco.png can only have 4 colors in segment, which is set when you first setup the island? Segment size is under Project parameters | Satellite grid calculator.

When you import the mask and the satellite png files, Visitor chops them up into pieces the size specified by the segment size (usually 512 pixels square). I resegmented Schmalfelden into 256 pixel segments which allowed be to better avoid the 4 mask color per segment limit. I was able to squeeze another texture in some segments, given Schmalfelden a total of 7.

[Auss 208]

You can use as many layers as you like, but remember you can only use a Max of 4 in any one square which is dependent on the perameters you set when you setup V3. At present I have way over 10 textures in the Australian island, but not in one square.

[bravo 6 0]

ok,  atm im using 12 layers but not in one square.

But do you guys have any suggestion or a easyer way on how to control this max for 4 textures per square?

[Nicholas Bell 0]

Quote[/b] ]But do you guys have any suggestion or a easyer way on how to control this max for 4 textures per square?

I set up a grid in Paint Shop Pro to match the segment size. I'm sure you can do this in your graphic editor too. Because of the segment overlap, you have to stay away from the edges of the grid lines, or you'll run into the 4 color limit conflict.

I also check after V3 chops up the mask file - I look at the individual "m" .png files in the Data/Layers folder. The 5th color usually ends up looking a brown-grey color in the rendered png. It definitely does not look like the other pure colors V3 uses. Very tedious work, but sometimes the only way I could find the wayward mask color.

Another interesting method I accidentally discovered to help see how the mask was working on map is to import the mask_loc.png instead of the sat_lco.png when V3 asks for the satellite image. Pretty wild looking in Buldozer or in game, but was helpful in seeing how the game engine renders the mask file in true relationship to objects.

[ProwlerWolf 0]

Must have been a very colorful accident. Thanks for that idea though, I will have to give the grid method a go in photoshop the next time I need to create a layer mask with more then 4 colors.

[bravo 6 0]

What happens if more then 4 colors are in same square, what are the in game symptoms?

[Nicholas Bell 0]

Quote[/b] ]What happens if more then 4 colors are in same square, what are the in game symptoms

Two possible results:

If the extra color is close to another "good" color it will display the "good" color. This can be hard to spot, which is why creating a satellite image from your mask image can be useful. I had white, yellow, red, green and blue in a segment and the program decided that the white was yellow (the predominant color).

More typically, the segment with more than 4 colors will be pure white.

[bravo 6 0]

is this one of the possible errors?

1024x768

If not, can someone explain why this happens?

The pretended color in this case is the color one the left side of the white arrow. The right side of the cursor should have the and texture from the left side.

[Auss 208]

yep thats the symtom

[fasad 1]

Based on findings in ArmA from about a year ago (and I haven't touched ArmA or Visitor in ~6 months):

If the mask contains a colour that isn't a match for one of the defined terrain types, ArmA will blend multiple terrain types over a single pixel of the mask, which may be what is happening in that pic?

There are (or at least were) some areas on Sahrani where multiple terrain types are blended into a single pixel (where the games version of the mask has brown pixels). I don't know whether these areas are deliberate or introduced as artifacts by the pac conversion.

The engine allows smooth transitions between terrain types over multiple pixels, but for whatever reason it isn't used (performance?).

[bravo 6 0]

another thing that bothers me is that i have to use 4 colors in a square. Why only 4? Is a engine limitation?

I read the text that we could only use 4 colors in a single square, but why?

Another thing that bother me is the terrain detail. Would be nice if we could model it better, with more details, so we could creat rivers and small streams better.

argh!

[bravo 6 0]

Quote[/b] ]But do you guys have any suggestion or a easyer way on how to control this max for 4 textures per square?

I set up a grid in Paint Shop Pro to match the segment size. I'm sure you can do this in your graphic editor too. Because of the segment overlap, you have to stay away from the edges of the grid lines, or you'll run into the 4 color limit conflict.

Can someone help me set a grid so i can control the colors better?

my image is 10240x10240

my Terrain cell size (meters): 10.0

my Texture Layer: Texture size = 40.0x40.0m

with this info how do i set up the respective grid?

[fasad 1]

another thing that bothers me is that i have to use 4 colors in a square. Why only 4? Is a engine limitation?

I read the text that we could only use 4 colors in a single square, but why?

Another thing that bother me is the terrain detail. Would be nice if we could model it better, with more details, so we could creat rivers and small streams better.

argh!

It is an engine limitation. The game engine mask (ie, not Visitor) uses 4 terrain types since it uses the 3 RGB colour channels of the PAA format to store the terrain type, with black as a forth.

Advantages :

- I assume that since the memory systems for storing and reading compressed textures already exist, less work required of developers.

- Allows possibility of blends between terrain types.

- Data in an easy to inspect and edit format.

Disadvantages:

- Four terrain types is restrictive.

- Since blends are not used, lots of memory and potentially exploitable data is wasted! (there is the potential for 16777216 different layers in the PAA data format, although there are obviously other engine considerations)

[bravo 6 0]

yeah, i kinda understand what your explaining..

the official text i mentioned is here: Surface mask

Quote[/b] ]4 colours on each single segment..

"4 full RGB shades (black, full R, full G, full B)"

Im not sure what the letters mean but i assume its full Red, full Green, full Blue

All i can say is really frustrating when we want to simulate more textures to make it more natural.

Would it be possible to change the engine and add 2 more colors or so?

example:

"6 full RGB shades (black, full R, full G, full B, White, full Y)" ?

would open more possibilities to terrain makers.

If this was done, what problems would the engine face anyway?

[fasad 1]

I agree, but the engine is up to BI. I doubt that they will change the engine for a luxury item, although we know ArmA2 will allow clutter that matchs the satellite mask.

The only thing we can do with ArmA is use small segment sizes. I seem to remember starting to test the performance impact, but can't remember the result. I do remember that windows didn't like having 100,000+ files in the layer directory...

[bravo 6 0]

well i didn't know that about ArmA2, it good news though.

If i just know how to set the grid (sizes between squares) i would set a new layer to my PS mask and would guide my colors through it, minimizing the color problem.

fasad can you help me set this grid for these settings:

image size 10240x10240

Terrain cell size (meters): 10.0

Texture Layer: Texture size = 40.0x40.0m

I really don't know how the grid should be using these settings.

edit: this is a part of my mask:

1024x768

it will become more complex soon :s

[fasad 1]

I can't help, since I don't really know how ArmA's masks work anymore. I remember setting up a non-regular grid spacing alternating between (segment size - overlap) and overlap. For example, 480, then 32 pixels, then 480, etc... I can't remember how the edges work anymore.

[Nicholas Bell 0]

Quote[/b] ] The only thing we can do with ArmA is use small segment sizes. I seem to remember starting to test the performance impact, but can't remember the result.

I changed the segment size in Schmalfelden around v.94 from 512 to 256 pixels and didn't see changes in the frame rate. Loading time may be a bit longer because of the additional files.

Quote[/b] ]If i just know how to set the grid (sizes between squares) i would set a new layer to my PS mask and would guide my colors through it, minimizing the color problem.

Bravo 6-

I found the easiest way to figure this out is to open the chopped up .png files in the Layers folder. Overlaying adjacent "s" files allows you to determine the amount of overlap. The exact formula is in the Biki but the translation to English there makes it difficult to understand. Thus my workaround.