KA50 AT Weapon Fix for ArmA 1.14

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

To the best of my knowledge, detecting what target is locked on to or even if *any* target is locked on to is completely impossible in arma.

The only workable solution (even remotely), is to code a whole FCS around the laser designator. Even then, you could not force the AI to use it correctly. Ever.

In short, yes the missile can theoretically engage air targets, but no, it works nothing like it does in game. Shooting down a several A-10s or several harriers, or a dozen cobras with a single kamov should not be the norm. Anyone that truly thinks so simply does not know what they're talking about.

Hell, you'd be hard pressed to make a dedicated air superiority aircraft carrying AAMs do this in reality.

OTOH, if you added Stinger pods or sidewinders to the cobras (US helicopters can and do carry them), found some way to make both realitivly inneffective against fast-movers (as they should be), and added countermeasures to all aircraft, things would be more balanced and much more correct.

There's some naysayers that seem to think that the game isn't built around balance, but there's just way too many things done in the name of it to make this argument even remotely valid.

I could give an itemized list, but it's 0700 and I just don't care that much.

Personally though, I'd take east any day, since they actually have an IFV (the stryker is *not* an IFV, that's what the bradley is for) in the game and commonly have full-auto small arms, and the west doesn't.

[frederf 0]

Laugh at this "fix" which basically is because people don't like being owned with real-ish weapons systems. Don't market it as a fix if it's just an "arcadifier" change to the game.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Laugh at this "fix" which basically is because people don't like being owned with real-ish weapons systems. Don't market it as a fix if it's just an "arcadifier" change to the game.

The way it currently is is actually the arcadifier. Shooting down several fast-movers with a single kamov is flat wrong, end of story.

[whisper 0]

Laugh at this "fix" which basically is because people don't like being owned with real-ish weapons systems. Don't market it as a fix if it's just an "arcadifier" change to the game.

The way it currently is is actually the arcadifier. Shooting down several fast-movers with a single kamov is flat wrong, end of story.

Which, again, doesn't mean the capability should be plain removed.

Tweaking flight characteristics of the missile, yes. Having the AI not shooting at targets above X kph, yes.

All this is possible in ArmA

But the whole outburst reeks of "OMG, russian able to do something that US can't? NOT POSSIBLE!"

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Personally, I think it reeks of "DON'T REMOVE MY SUPER WEAPON THAT WILL KILL ANYTHING ON THE MAP WITH ONLY ONE SHOT IN UNDER 2 SECONDS!! WAH!!!111eleventy-one!"

It's not like we're largely polarized PVP community, I don't see what the big deal is here. Most of us play east as well, this is not an "Us vs Them" oriented game like the red vs blue you see in IL-2 or other such games. Hell, the PVP community probably wants it removed even more than the rest of us because frankly, it's game breaking.

On the subject of reducing missile accuracy, it would make it far less effective against tanks as well if you did that.

As far as reducing max-lead speed goes, this only applies to the AI, not to players. Therefore, it's not even remotely a solution.

As far balance goes, US choppers should have stinger pods and sidewinders available and all aircraft should have counter measures as they do in real life.

I don't see any of these things happening here.

In short:

It's wrong as currently modeled, someone sought out a workaround, what's with the complaining about it? Just don't use the damn thing if you don't like it, it's not a mandatory addon. Or better yet, why don't you figure out a better solution than this and release it instead of complaining about it?

[manzilla 1]

That really sums it up perfectly. It's mind boggling how polarized a few can get over this game.

[whisper 0]

Personally, I think it reeks of "DON'T REMOVE MY SUPER WEAPON THAT WILL KILL ANYTHING ON THE MAP WITH ONLY ONE SHOT IN UNDER 2 SECONDS!! WAH!!!111eleventy-one!"

Exactly, but more "change the damn thing so it doesn't kill anything on the map with only one shot".

Missile agility reducing efficiency against ground targets?

There's a whole range of possible parameters between the current missile that will make a air-to-air kill on a target behind him and a missile that would miss most tanks.

As for why I react like this : it's because I see an incredible outcry and shouts for removal of a function that exists in the real bird, outcry over balance issues, when funnily enough, every other balance "issues" so far has been (rightfully so) disregarded.

The problem is not that Ka-50 Vikhr can shoot down aircrafts. It is that Ka-50 is far too efficient at doing it.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

Missile agility reducing efficiency against ground targets?

There's a whole range of possible parameters between the current missile that will make a air-to-air kill on a target behind him and a missile that would miss most tanks.

Um, no.

There isn't a whole range of parameters that will make it more efficient against one target than another.

In fact, here's the relevant parameters available to mess with, ripped straight out of the pbo:

manualControl = 1;

maxControlRange = 10000;

initTime = 0;

thrustTime = 2.5;

thrust = 350;

trackOversteer = 1;

trackLead = 1;

maneuvrability = 25;

Note that all of those parameters apply regardless of target type. In short, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to prove me wrong and release something better though. I'm sure everyone, including me, would be perfectly fine with that.

The problem is not that Ka-50 Vikhr can shoot down aircrafts. It is that Ka-50 is far too efficient at doing it.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT EVERYBODY IS SAYING. The problem is also that there's no efficient way to fix it without disabling it completely. The only way I see involves heavilly scripting the Vikhr, but that introduces a multitude of problems as well, not the least of which is lag and lack of necessary commands to tell which kind of target is locked.

[ravenholme 50]

It's not like we're largely polarized PVP community, I don't see what the big deal is here. Most of us play east as well, this is not an "Us vs Them" oriented game like the red vs blue you see in IL-2 or other such games.

First off: He suggested tweaks that would make the system more realistic, not removing it. It's a capability of the Vikhrs, it's just that the way the game handles it makes it somewhat better than it is.

And secondly: IL-2? "Us vs Them"? Most IL-2 players I know would argue that this statement is invalid.. Lots of people play all the sides in IL-2 (For instance, I'll play all sides, but my Father sticks with the Germans because he loves their fighters, etc.)

[whisper 0]

In fact, here's the relevant parameters available to mess with, ripped straight out of the pbo:

manualControl = 1;

maxControlRange = 10000;

initTime = 0;

thrustTime = 2.5;

thrust = 350;

trackOversteer = 1;

trackLead = 1;

maneuvrability = 25;

Note that all of those parameters apply regardless of target type. In short, you simply don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to prove me wrong and release something better though. I'm sure everyone, including me, would be perfectly fine with that.

Also sideAirFriction, simulationStep, along with maneuvrability and thrust, all this will make a missile more or less prone to hit fast moving targets. This is the parameters I was talking about.

[ColonelSandersLite 0]

@whisper

Again, those effect *all* targets. Like I said though, feel free to prove me wrong and release something better.

@Ravenholme

Again, tweaks aren't practical here, but feel free to prove me wrong and release something better.

Also, you may think that but my experience is quite the opposite as far as IL-2 goes. I've seen enough amerwhiner vs luftwaffle fights on the ubizoo to last a lifetime. That's the single biggest reason I'm simply not active in that community, and stick to private games with people I know. I was starting to get really active at one time, but left because I was just sick of the BS. I still lurk on the ubizoo from time to time just to watch the hilarious fights, but haven't posted there in ages. That community seems to me to be largely counterproductive us vs them bickering. Just look at one of the thousands of .50 cal threads to see exactly what I mean. It's totally off-topic, but my personal guess is that what makes our 2 communities so different is focus on coop vs focus on deathmatch. To my thinking, the largest faction in the IL-2 community plays mostly in dogfight mode, which is nothing more than deathmatch with WWII aircraft. In ARMA, we tend to focus on other areas. This is just IMO though, so take it how you will.

[Frank-O 0]

ok. To illustrate the point. I overflew the enemy base in a kamov, approaching at treetop (10m) level up to 1km before climbing a little at max horizontal speed to 30m. Speed was around 200kph.

9 Vikhrs were avail, 8 were fired, 7 kills, then a volley of 12 ffars to finish the attack run.

What's wrong with this picture? The real KA-50 can't do this. We really need to see the implemented fix of locking on to 1 AT target, and staying locked on to that target until the missile hits/misses. If you change target, the missile will try to alter flight path, or loses lock-on.

Also, the current lock-on behavior of the Vikhr is good. You have to put the reticle of the AT missile in the "box". Then the missile will fly straight. If you launch the missile with the reticle outside the lock "square", then the Vikhr will "wiggle" and probably miss. I like that. Please keep this behavior. Hellfires do not do this, and hit whether the reticle is inside or outside the box.