Black Knight 0 Posted March 1, 2002 from Maruk: Dear Operation Flashpoint fans, After seeing various reactions on the Official forums and other places, some of the full of displeasure, disrespect or offences, I believe I should clarify our goals with the tools to the community. We had two options: to postpone release of the tools completely or to make the tools available under more restrictive conditions. Our decision was it's much better to start something immediately instead of waiting next couple of months.We believe this initiave will show first postive results in near future because more high quality freeware addons and MODs will be avaible for Flashpoint. 1) We still plan to release the tools for general public later. No exact details has been decided but the original goal remains unchanged but it will certainly happen later. 2) The tools are useless to vaste majority of people because of the complexity of modeling for Operation Flashpoint. Also, the tools in current stage are still not really polished so there's no purpose giving them to general public without some more documentation and tutorials. This is one the things we hope will be developed in conjuction with various MOD making teams. We believe it's much better way to start with more limited number of users now and extend the availability of tools later to wider audience in right time and right form. 3) We want to help to establish good level of quality of the new content for Operation Flashpoint. We believe this is the best way to ensure the standard will be pretty high. 4) The tools are result of many years of our work and the tools have very high value. We have serious concerns the tools could be used for some unauthorized commercial products or another acitivity we don't want to support at present stage. 5) The tools are intelectual property of Bohemia Interactive Studio and no users of Operation Flashpoint was granted any right to use it. We've started this initiative to make the tools available to some more people if they want to respect given condititions and limitaions of use the tools. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 As Kegetys said ------------------------------------------------------------ </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> 2) The tools are useless to vaste majority of people because of the complexity of modeling for Operation Flashpoint. Also, the tools in current stage are still not really polished so there's no purpose giving them to general public without some more documentation and tutorials. This is one the things we hope will be developed in conjuction with various MOD making teams. We believe it's much better way to start with more limited number of users now and extend the availability of tools later to wider audience in right time and right form.<span id='postcolor'> Hmm.. Useless... Sure everything is useless first, but people learn by using. If you dont know how to operate something, you dont just leave it alone and wait for you to magically gain some skill in using it after a while (And no, this is not The Matrix where you ask the operator to upload the skills  ). I still would say that would be better if everyone could get them to try them out, and to experiment with them. Test all the buttons, all the menus etc and see what they do, this is what happened with ofp editing so far. There was no documentation for the mission editor (until recently), there was no documentation for config.cpp but still what can we do? Pretty much everything possible. Of course documentation is good, but lack of it doesnt matter me at all as I wouldnt propably read it anyway, im the "learn by experimenting" kindof person... So maybe I should sign up for it? Well I dont think I can write documentation or tutorials... </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3) We want to help to establish good level of quality of the new content for Operation Flashpoint. We believe this is the best way to ensure the standard will be pretty high.<span id='postcolor'> Hmm.. before anyone can make any quality models they need to learn how oxygen works and for that, oxygen is needed... The longer it takes for everyone to get oxygen the longer it takes before we will start getting the quality models. If the tools would be available to public right now, we would propably get some "crap" models by people who are just experimenting with oxygen now but then we would start getting the quality models after a while. Delaying oxygen release is just delaying this unavoidable fact which will happen anyway no matter how long the oxygen release is delayed. (unless its so long that no one in interested in ofp anymore) </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4) The tools are result of many years of our work and the tools have very high value. We have serious concerns the tools could be used for some unauthorized commercial products or another acitivity we don't want to support at present stage.<span id='postcolor'> Yes, Oxygen is from what I know a very advanced lowpolygon modeler. But it can only save a P3D right? And P3D is a file format developed by BIS so therefore if someone would want to use oxygen for commercial products they would need to use the P3D format. How legal would that be? Well this whole matter is rather complicated I would say.. Its not that bad as what it seemed like first, but I would still have wished things to be very different, but I guess I cant do anything about it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damage Inc 0 Posted March 1, 2002 Why do you people have to start a new thread about modelling tools every 15 minutes ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Knight 0 Posted March 1, 2002 well this news just came out like 5 min. ago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 More like about 30-45 mins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damage Inc 0 Posted March 1, 2002 Well why start a new thread when there are many others you can reply to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Monkey Lib Front @ Mar. 01 2002,21:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As kegyts said<span id='postcolor'> Kegetys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goodspeed 0 Posted March 1, 2002 Legal issue As far as I have understood you forbid to users to sell MODs made for Operation Flashpoint? If it so, I would like to find out on what basis? Whether you want to create precedent. Present that company Adobe will declare about the property right to all products made with Photoshop, for example:) And in new patch you have forbidden to change config.bin... What is the next step? You'll delete mission editor? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 01 2002,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Monkey Lib Front @ Mar. 01 2002,21:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As kegyts said<span id='postcolor'> Kegetys <span id='postcolor'> There u go sorry its hard to type when ur ill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maruk 80 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodspeed @ Mar. 01 2002,20:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Legal issue As far as I have understood you forbid to users to sell MODs made for Operation Flashpoint? If it so, I would like to find out on what basis? Whether you want to create precedent. Present that company Adobe will declare about the property right to all products made with Photoshop, for example:) And in new patch you have forbidden to change config.bin... What is the next step? You'll delete mission editor?<span id='postcolor'> Do they give Photoshop for free? I think you have made good point but you have missed this important difference. Sure there can be an option how to license the tools for a company that wants to use it for commercial production. But I hope you agree in that case it would be absolutely fair if we ask some compensation for it. Currently, we offer the tools for free with some limitations - and not using the tools for creating commercial content is one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Maruk @ Mar. 01 2002,22:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodspeed @ Mar. 01 2002,20:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Legal issue As far as I have understood you forbid to users to sell MODs made for Operation Flashpoint? If it so, I would like to find out on what basis? Whether you want to create precedent. Present that company Adobe will declare about the property right to all products made with Photoshop, for example:) And in new patch you have forbidden to change config.bin... What is the next step? You'll delete mission editor?<span id='postcolor'> Do they give Photoshop for free? I think you have made good point but you have missed this important difference. Sure there can be an option how to license the tools for a company that wants to use it for commercial production. But I hope you agree in that case it would be absolutely fair if we ask some compensation for it. Currently, we offer the tools for free with some limitations - and not using the tools for creating commercial content is one of them.<span id='postcolor'> But that doesnt requite you to make a special agreemet with everyone before you let them download it does it? The installer could just pop up a license agreement window that you have to agree on before you can install the tools... It would tell you that you are not authorized to sell the things made with this software without a written agreement with bohemia etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akm74 1 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And in new patch you have forbidden to change config.bin<span id='postcolor'> Is this mean we CAN'T use Satchel sound addon anymore ??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goodspeed 0 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do they give Photoshop for free? I think you have made good point but you have missed this important difference. Sure there can be an option how to license the tools for a company that wants to use it for commercial production. But I hope you agree in that case it would be absolutely fair if we ask some compensation for it. Currently, we offer the tools for free with some limitations - and not using the tools for creating commercial content is one of them.<span id='postcolor'> Do you guys give us OFP for free? Understand me correctly, it is really interesting to me how you are going to settle relations between developers of MODs and campaigns. And it is very interesting to me how you are going to distinguish bad and good MODs and campaigns? And I absolutely agree that you have the right to a part of the profit from sale of additions, you have spent too many time for creation of this game... I kept up development from the very beginning... But give then a message of an affair fairly and directly! Make the offer for us! Develop the strategy concerning independent developers! If it is interesting to you, I can send by mail the offer. I have some experience in it. Believe me - its very simple. Also do not forget the GOLD RULE OF BUSINESS - THE CLIENT IS ALWAYS RIGHT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goodspeed 0 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is this mean we CAN'T use Satchel sound addon anymore <span id='postcolor'> Nope Just dont install 1.45 patch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MosquitoMkVI 0 Posted March 1, 2002 OK, I'm a little confused here, I've read all this stuff from some very angry little people about how releasing Oxygen now will only cause people to put out millions and millions of lousy mods which will destroy the game. I mean forgive if I'm wrong, but Half Life came with full modding tools, and lots of crappy mods came out and Half Life is doing how badly...oh I remember now, they're doing great, gee I wonder why..couldn't be the mods, people must just be playing the same old stuff over and over and over... Funny how they didn't just curl up and die eh. Anyway, I figure BIS has got every right not to release they're tools for the game if they don't want to, it's they're product they can do what they want with it. They even have the right to say that they'll release it, and the not release after all, again they're product and hey not great customer relations but that's they're problem not mine, I'm just a customer. I love the game right now, and the editor does increase the replay value, but quite honestly being stuck on the same three islands for all eternity isn't exactly going to increase it's overall replay value all that much for me. Once bored, it'll get shelved, but then hey I've already paid for it, so BIS has my money so they don't really have to provide anymore. Just a shame, because the gameplay is great though. Anyway, I expect a bunch of people will now want to call me a baby and all kinds of other nasty names, or a couple of mods will want to threaten to throw me out for not cowing the mighty developers so have at it and maybe I'll talk to ya late..If not, then I wouldn't really want to be a part of a community that doesn't allow for my freedom of opinion anyway!!! ciao... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drcharm 0 Posted March 1, 2002 You're absolutely free to have opinions, you just have to make sure they are approved by certain parties before posting them Cheers, Dr. Charm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Black Knight 0 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodspeed @ Mar. 01 2002,22:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is this mean we CAN'T use Satchel sound addon anymore <span id='postcolor'> Nope Just dont install 1.45 patch <span id='postcolor'> Well i guess thats what i'm gonna have to do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sith 0 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">or a couple of mods will want to threaten to throw me out for not cowing the mighty developers so have at it<span id='postcolor'> Why on earth would we do that? These boards are meant for ppl that want to share their opinions with eachother. If we (mods) would've been banning ppl and deleting posts just bcuz they say something bad about BIS, I really dont think there would've been much of a community left here So please feel free to express your opinion on this (or any other) matter, just keep it nice & tidy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MosquitoMkVI 0 Posted March 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">These boards are meant for ppl that want to share their opinions with eachother. If we (mods) would've been banning ppl and deleting posts just bcuz they say something bad about BIS, I really dont think there would've been much of a community left here So please feel free to express your opinion on this (or any other) matter, just keep it nice & tidy <span id='postcolor'> Very good hear. I was just a bit worried when I saw a couple of people (to be un-named) threatened with banishment to the wild woods of cyberspace, for expressing dissatisfaction with the release of the tools. But to be fair to the mods, I know little of the backgrounds of said wolf-bait and therefore am in no position to judge those actions. Anyway I can be nice, but I've always had trouble with tidy you know, never was very organised. Just couldn't get the hang of....Tidy don't look lived in!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
