Afghans and bin laden

[NEO -PZ- 0]

Stupid ideas, those about official addons about Afghans and bin Laden. It's nothing to make a game of. And religions, what do they do? They create conflicts and make people act in strange ways. Not good. I think religions should be trashed. Sure, everyone has its right to believe in what ever he wants to believe in... but it's sick. (40+ men commiting suicide in the same time to - what? Oh yeah...)

And making a game about it?

And bin Laden is not a gaming matter. He should be killed for those acts he commited. And terrorist networks should be eliminated.

[Mr no 0]

u got a good point NEO

40 men commiting suicide for what

bloody f**king allah

you know what i say i hope the usa sends the f**kers to allah

the hardway single bullet in back of there heads

sorry if it sounds nasty but i think its what the rest of the world would want

[RedRogue 0]

Then you know very little of the world.

[Tovarish 0]

If we followed your logic there would be no wargames out there whatsoever. Would you consider Hitler something to "make a game out of"? How about Stalin? Mao? Saddamn Insane? My view is, if the "game" portrays history as accurately as possible, it can be just as effective and as valid as any history textbook out there.

[Paratrooper 0]

Well said RedRogue.

[Andres Vera 0]

Mr. no, war is not for that, in the 89 here, they shoot abaut 3000 pepole "in the head". I was 5, saw it all, not good

[IceFire 0]

Well, maybe not from where you live Red Rogue.

But I just got back from vacation last winter break.

I was in Russia and Amsterdam.

And during my tavels, I met alot of people from different places.

And when talking to them, eventually the conversation would come to 9/11 and their personal views on the matter.

I met a british girl, Australian boy, 2 New Zealand brothers, a Korean guy and his girl freind, several Russians in Russia.

In Amsterdam, I spoke on the matter to an Irishman, Frenchman, some guy from Cameroon, and a Scottsman, and several Dutch.

Every single one of them except for the African guy from Cameroon agreed that Bin Laden should be taken out, and they all said that they supported the war in Afghanastan.

I don't know, but that's alot of people from around the world who seem to agree with us.

[IceFire 0]

Ope, forgot to mention the Estonian kid I met in the hostel in Amsterdam who ALSO agreed with us.

[Major Fubar 0]

I think most organised religions are stupid, not just Islam.

What about Christianity: the crusades, burning "witches"...I could go on forever.

And for the record, Afghani's arent any more evil than Austrians. Remember Hitler? Badmouthing a whole race over the actions of one man is just plain stupid. Are all Americans evil because of what Timothy McVey did?

People need to have a good hard look at their reasoning, on both sides of the "War against terror".

[RedRogue 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ Feb. 27 2002,06:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, maybe not from where you live Red Rogue.

But I just got back from vacation last winter break.

I was in Russia and Amsterdam.

And during my tavels, I met alot of people from different places.

And when talking to them, eventually the conversation would come to 9/11 and their personal views on the matter.

I met a british girl, Australian boy, 2 New Zealand brothers, a Korean guy and his girl freind, several Russians in Russia.

In Amsterdam, I spoke on the matter to an Irishman, Frenchman, some guy from Cameroon, and a Scottsman, and several Dutch.

Every single one of them except for the African guy from Cameroon agreed that Bin Laden should be taken out, and they all said that they supported the war in Afghanastan.

I don't know, but that's alot of people from around the world who seem to agree with us.<span id='postcolor'>

Where did I say I did not support the current military activities in Afganistan.

There is a big difference between wanting the elimination of the people that commited the WTC attack. And wishing and wanting to kill the people they hide themselves in.

The intelligence of a person I meet or see that says I want to kill some afgans greatly diminishes in my eyes. Apparently many people cannot distinguish a few people from the many, that it must be a nation of people and not mearly a faction.

[Longinius 1]

"Stupid ideas, those about official addons about Afghans and bin Laden."

Not worse than a Vietnam or WWII addon.

"It's nothing to make a game of. And religions, what do they do? They create conflicts and make people act in strange ways."

Religion does not create conflict. People create conflict. "Religion is just a tool and an excuse.

"Not good. I think religions should be trashed. Sure, everyone has its right to believe in what ever he wants to believe in... but it's sick. (40+ men commiting suicide in the same time to - what? Oh yeah...)"

Yeah, away with everyone like mother Theresa. The wench! No good doers!

"40 men commiting suicide for what

bloody f**king allah"

People have commited suicide for stranger and less worthy causes. Like comets, bad grades and low self esteem.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 27 2002,11:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People have commited suicide for stranger and less worthy causes. Like comets, bad grades and low self esteem.<span id='postcolor'>

My thoughts exactly. You have to admit those warriors of allah had the guts to die for SOMETHING, however stupid. I think most people in west kill themselves, because there is NOTHING in their lives.

[NEO -PZ- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 27 2002,11:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Stupid ideas, those about official addons about Afghans and bin Laden."

Not worse than a Vietnam or WWII addon.

"It's nothing to make a game of. And religions, what do they do? They create conflicts and make people act in strange ways."

Religion does not create conflict. People create conflict. "Religion is just a tool and an excuse.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, addons about Afghans, bin Laden and the rest about this WTC story is worse than addons about Vietnam and WWII. Why? Because the WTC story took place last year, and people have not forgotten - of course most people have not forgotten the second world war either, but the thoughts about things that happened so long time ago aren't that bad as present day conflicts.

And religions do create conflicts. Think about it, what was the cause of any conflict you can - or can't - remember? Religions! A religion even started this war in the 21st century.

I am not saying that just islam is wrong, i don't like religions whatsoever.

[Longinius 1]

"Yes, addons about Afghans, bin Laden and the rest about this WTC story is worse than addons about Vietnam and WWII. Why? Because the WTC story took place last year, and people have not forgotten - of course most people have not forgotten the second world war either, but the thoughts about things that happened so long time ago aren't that bad as present day conflicts."

How does it make it worse? It all depends on HOW the game is made.

"And religions do create conflicts. Think about it, what was the cause of any conflict you can - or can't - remember? Religions! A religion even started this war in the 21st century."

Again, religion per say does not start conflicts. It is used as an excuse for conflicts. Most world religions are peaceful in nature. Then along comes man and abuses it. It is not religions fault, it is our fault. But yes, religion has been used as a reason for many conflicts.

[NEO -PZ- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 28 2002,07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Again, religion per say does not start conflicts. It is used as an excuse for conflicts. Most world religions are peaceful in nature. Then along comes man and abuses it. It is not religions fault, it is our fault. But yes, religion has been used as a reason for many conflicts.<span id='postcolor'>

Man created/creates religions. And religions create conflicts between each other, and makes the people in believe do crazy things. Without religions, there would be much less conflicts - proving that religions are the cause of most conflict situations.

[Longinius 1]

"Man created/creates religions. And religions create conflicts between each other, and makes the people in believe do crazy things. Without religions, there would be much less conflicts - proving that religions are the cause of most conflict situations. "

You really think people would fight less if there was no religion? People will find other reasons to fight. Soccer, globilization, envy, greed, power, lust etc. Religion seldom causes conflicts, it is used as an excuse to get others to join up.

[NEO -PZ- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Feb. 28 2002,17:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Religion seldom causes conflicts, it is used as an excuse to get others to join up.<span id='postcolor'>

Hello? Yes it does. What made bin Laden commit the terror attacks September 11 last year? The first/main (I don't know the right word that I'm seeking, English isn't my native language and I'm currently too lazy to grab the dictionary) cause is religion. Then he probably added some extra 'reasons' to do this. Blah blah, I don't stand writing more right now, have lots of things to do.

[Longinius 1]

"Hello? Yes it does. What made bin Laden commit the terror attacks September 11 last year? The first/main (I don't know the right word that I'm seeking, English isn't my native language and I'm currently too lazy to grab the dictionary) cause is religion. Then he probably added some extra 'reasons' to do this. Blah blah, I don't stand writing more right now, have lots of things to do. "

That is one of the excuses he uses, right. But religion did not cause it. No where in the Koran does it say "Attack Americans". And muslims live by the Koran. The simple fact that we did not see an all our Jihad confirms that it was not about religion.

Otherwise you'd have to say that David Koresh was reprsentative of Christianity. Which he wasn't. They were / are quite disturbed men and they would have done what they did WITH or WITHOUT religion.

[Bonfire 0]

Whos to say that Religion has anything to do with war?

How is a Orgainzed Religion that preaches (amoung other good things) Love so bad?   would you rather have an unorgainzed Religion were people walk around giving out kool-aid laced with cianide?

In recent months it seems to me that people are connecting Islam (and Religion in general) with the evils of terrorism.  Doing that is taking a small group of finatics and using that ideal to stereotype everyone else....ts like saying "all Christans are KKK members", its such a idiotic notion that it makes my head want to explode.

What made bin Laden commit the terror attacks September 11 last year? The first/main (I don't know the right word that I'm seeking, English isn't my native language and I'm currently too lazy to grab the dictionary) cause is religion. Then he probably added some extra 'reasons' to do this. Blah blah, I don't stand writing more right now, have lots of things to do.  

you say that because its the easiest answer to grasp.  I have several friends that are Muslems and they don't go about promoting or defending terrorism.  Like it or not, Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all relate to the same God.  There are different variables for each one, such as the siginifcance of Mohommid and Christ, but beyond that, they all grow from the same root.  I can't tell you why exactly Bin Laden orgainzed the sept11 attacks, hatered seems to be the clearest answer....and Islam does not preach Hatered.

[NEO -PZ- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is one of the excuses he uses, right. But religion did not cause it. No where in the Koran does it say "Attack Americans". And muslims live by the Koran. The simple fact that we did not see an all our Jihad confirms that it was not about religion.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In recent months it seems to me that people are connecting Islam (and Religion in general) with the evils of terrorism.  Doing that is taking a small group of finatics and using that ideal to stereotype everyone else....ts like saying "all Christans are KKK members", its such a idiotic notion that it makes my head want to explode.<span id='postcolor'>

You two misunderstand me. I don't mean that terrorism is islam's 'mission' or something. I mean that the religions create conflicts between each other, which is the main cause of almost every conflict/war in the history of Earth. In the end, the believers fights the conflicts - not the religions. Though the religions causes it.

[Longinius 1]

Lets just agree to disagree on that one then

[FallenPaladin 0]

I have no problems with addons based on recent crisis or wars. It only depends on how they are made and what the mission objectives are like.

If there was a realistic UN-Mission in Afghanistan (for example patrols in Kabul or convoi missions) I would like to play it, but if someone designed a mission "Stationary-machinegun-against-afghans-unarmed-what-the-hell-kill-them-they-are-afgha

ns" I`d say forget it that`s tasteless.

[NEO -PZ- 0]

OK, when I wrote my first post in this thread, I was pretty tired and a little pissed off about it. As a game it could work with Afghans, but not bin Laden - I think too many people wouldn't like it. There was a film about a bomb attack at WTC that would just be released, but then the terrorist attacks happened, and they decided not to release the film until in a couple of years or so. This is kind of the same thing.

But I still keep my thoughts about the religions of man.

[FallenPaladin 0]

I`m not religious, I don`t believe in god or in higher mights (than the moderators ). In most religions god is to manlike.

When science was not so highly developed like today, people needed something that explained, why they lived and why all the things happened to them. So, I guess, they „made“ god. An allmighty being that could do all the things where they couldn`t explain, how they worked. But these gods are in my eyes to manlike and so too unbelievable.

If something can give us all our abilities and feelings, it has to understand and possibly even possess them. The bad ones like hate and bloodthirst, too. What should this god be like? A nice guy you bow before? Certainly not!

I prefer to live my life only relating to science and experiences that are proven. Things that cannot be explained are simply unexplainable until someone finds an explanation for them.

I`m pretty satisfied by my way of life and don`t want to harm others because of their thoughts. Maybe being without religion is not so bad. Maybe this kind of thinking is related to the „higher developed“ western capitalized staates. Who knows?

Only MY thoughts, got a philosophic minute back there...

[Longinius 1]

First of, I am not religious. Not in the classic sense anyway.

"If something can give us all our abilities and feelings, it has to understand and possibly even possess them. The bad ones like hate and bloodthirst, too. What should this god be like? A nice guy you bow before? Certainly not!"

All men and women posses hate and bloodthirst. It is in us all, to some degree. Most of use can control it most of the time though. So why shouldnt a God be able to? Besides, good is always biased. If you worship a god and he is good to you he can be bad to your enemy and you would still worship him.

"I`m pretty satisfied by my way of life and don`t want to harm others because of their thoughts. Maybe being without religion is not so bad. Maybe this kind of thinking is related to the „higher developed“ western capitalized staates. Who knows?"

Yeah, now we don't kill eachother for religion. We kill for envy, greed, jealousy or madness instead. Much better