PC Discussion Thread - All PC related in here.

[chris330 0]

Ok great! I've got a rough idea what I should be doing and what area to be looking in now thanks to you cheers ;)

[Sertorius21 10]

A word of advice: If you're going to get this particular system, don't buy a gfx card until you have the case in your hands. A lot of new model gfx cards are pretty damn long, and might not fit into a small case. Measure the case first, then buy a card.

[echo1 0]

Well, if you look at a card like the 9600GT (which is probably in Chris330's budget) it's shorter than a mATX motherboard, so if it can't fit, there's probably some very serious issues with the case :p

[chris330 0]

I'm glad someone has mentioned the issue of graphics card compatablity, as it's made me think of a few things. I know all cards these days use a PCI slot not and AGP slot, but I notice the new geforce ones are listed as being suitable for a PCI 2 slot.

Is there a difference between a PCI and a PCI 2 slot? Does anyone know if the machine in the link can accomodate a PCI 2 stated graphics card?

This might have saved me alot of trouble so thanks for mentioning it.;)

[Quiet Blue Jay 10]

Hello everyone! I'm looking to buy a new computer, instead of upgrading or building my own. I need an opinion.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saving/show.asp?id=2080198

I have my eye on this Infinity 9000 GS. I customized it, so it seems to have the ARMA 2 requirements. To me, it seems to be the perfect package. I, however, have no experience with computers outside of the screen.

Will it run ARMA 2 at max settings(when it comes to graphics) with 40-60 FR minimum? What needs to be changed, if anything?

I thank you all for your time.

**Edit

In case the link doesn't work, here are the specs. If I'm missing info, please do let me know.

CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® CoreT 2 Quad Q9650 @ 3.0GHz 1333FSB 12MB L2 Cache 64-bit

MOTHERBOARD: (3-Way SLI Support) Asus P5N72-T Premium nForce 780i SLI Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard

MEMORY:4GB (2GBx2) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)

VIDEO:NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT 1GB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)

MULTIVIEW:Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors

MONITOR:22" TFT Active Matrix LCD Display (Generic 22inch WSXGA TFT LCD Display)

HDD:Single Hard Drive (750GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)

HDD2(data hard drive):250GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive -- Recommended

CD: (Special Price) LG 22X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Dual Layer Drive (BLACK COLOR)

SOUND:HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

FLASHMEDIA:INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)

IEEE_CARD:NONE

USB:Add External USB 2.0 Hub (4x USB 2.0 Ports) [+19] (SILVER Color IR-4100-SL)

OS:Microsoft® Windows VistaT Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)

OS_UPGRADE:None

CARE2:Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System

Edited August 8, 2009 by Quiet Blue Jay

[echo1 0]

I'm glad someone has mentioned the issue of graphics card compatablity, as it's made me think of a few things. I know all cards these days use a PCI slot not and AGP slot, but I notice the new geforce ones are listed as being suitable for a PCI 2 slot.

Is there a difference between a PCI and a PCI 2 slot? Does anyone know if the machine in the link can accomodate a PCI 2 stated graphics card?

This might have saved me alot of trouble so thanks for mentioning it.;)

Yes, a graphics card designed for a PCI-E 2.0 slot will work in a motherboard that only supports PCI-E 1.0 I had such a configuration myself for a few months and I had no issues.

Incidentally, PCI and PCI-E are too quite seperate things :)

Hello everyone! I'm looking to buy a new computer, instead of upgrading or building my own. I need an opinion.

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saving/show.asp?id=2080198

I have my eye on this Infinity 9000 GS. I customized it, so it seems to have the ARMA 2 requirements. To me, it seems to be the perfect package. I, however, have no experience with computers outside of the screen.

I went through the list, and I came up with some improvements. I'll put a star beside the ones that I think are particularly important.

*PSU: Change to a Corsair brand one.

Cooling fan: Just get the standard Intel one, none of the ones on the list are particularly good.

Motherboard: Since you don't need SLI support, I switched down to the Gigabyte motherboard with the G41 chipset, saved money for more important things.

*Graphics card: Switch to the Radeon HD4890, the 9800GT is a bit slow by today's standards.

*Hard drive: Don't bother with two hard drives, just get a single one terabyte one, and partition them if needs be.

Speakers: I'd upgrade to the Logitech X-240, they're pretty good speakers for the price.

Mouse: You should consider a better mouse - the Logitech MX518 is a very good mouse for the money.

OS: I wouldn't bother getting Vista now, or even getting an upgrade voucher... Just get the PC without Windows, download and install the Windows 7 release candidate, and use it until it expires in March/June of next year. Then buy an OEM copy of Windows 7 (should be less than $100) and install it.

Edited August 8, 2009 by echo1

[chris330 0]

Wow more great info ch 123 thanks alot. Does anyone know what it refers to when a spec talks about a PCI-E slot being x 16 or x 1? I'm looking at a machine which has a PCI-E x 16 slot and also a PCI-E x 1 slot. What on earth does all that stand for? Is there a book I can buy which can educate me as a n00b on the basics of PC hardware? Thanks again ;)

[echo1 0]

In the motherboard, there is a single link between all the PCI-E slots and the CPU - this is called the PCI-E bus. Obviously the bus can only carry so much data at one time, so that bandwidth has to be subdivided into different 'channels'. By means of an analogy - if you own an office with a 10Mbps broadband line, and you have 20 employees, you might set up your network to have 20 0.5Mbps channels to ensure everyone gets a fair share.

The x number for a slot represents how many channels that particular PCI-E slot can provide to the card. So, in very basic terms, the more channels it has access to, the faster the card can communicate with the CPU.

So, here a pic of two PCI-E slots, and three regular PCI slot underneath (despite the similar name, they dont have much in common). The small one is a PCI-E 1x slot, this is for stuff like sound cards, wifi adaptors... things that don't need much data bandwidth. They're the replacement for the older style of PCI slot. Top one is the 16x slot, this is for graphics cards and other stuff that need very fast communication with the rest of the computer. On some motherboards you have 4x and 8x which are used for fancy stuff like server network and hard drive controllers, the one in the pic has a 4x in the middle.

The thing to note is that all of these are backwards, and to an extent, forwards compatible. That is to say - you can plug a 1x card into a 4x or 16x, or a 4x into an 8x/16x etc. The reverse is technically true, however they will operate at slower speeds.

Oh, as for learning this stuff... sites on the net are useful, and Wikipedia is quite handy, because it puts everything in one place and gives you links to other sites.. Books tend to go out of date, but there is one in particular I am fond of - Upgrading and Repairing PCs by Scott Mueller. It easy to read yet full of very useful information. As with all computer books, make sure to try and get the latest edition.

Edited August 8, 2009 by echo1

[chris330 0]

Wow that's great! Thanks alot pal that makes much sense, I've done some work in the past with DCS controllers in industry so that bus part makes alot of sense. Does PCI stand for something like processor interface or something?

You've been a great help, I'm in the process of building a new desk for my eagerly awaited PC as we speak!!!;)

[Quiet Blue Jay 10]

ch 123, thank you for your advice. Here is the updated list, how does it look?

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saving/show.asp?id=2080924

I haven't changed the mouse or speakers, I plan to swap them in the future anyway. I would have switched the graphics card to your recommendation, but they do not have it among their options. I will most likely upgrade when I get more money, however.

Will this rig run ArmA 2 at max settings with a good frame rate in the middle of a massive battle?

Can't wait :bounce3:

Thanks

[echo1 0]

Hi,

Scroll down the list of graphics cards, there's definitely one down there near the bottom of their list.

Also, if you're going to get XP, you should know that it will only support about 3GB of your 4GB of RAM. I'd get the upgrade voucher for Windows 7 though, it's a bargain for $29.

Edited August 9, 2009 by echo1

[Quiet Blue Jay 10]

Hi,

Scroll down the list of graphics cards, there's definitely one down there near the bottom of their list.

Also, if you're going to get XP, you should know that it will only support about 3GB of your 4GB of RAM. I'd get the upgrade voucher for Windows 7 though, it's a bargain for $29.

Okay, so I've found the graphics card, but it's telling me that I need to get Vista before I can get the Windows 7 voucher.

**Edit**

I've decided to ditch the Infinity 9000 computer, it was turning out to be waay over priced. I'm looking at a different one, about $700 less with similar/same components. Thank you for your help thus far. I'll be back :)

Edited August 9, 2009 by Quiet Blue Jay

[chris330 0]

Hi quick one chaps I'm formatting an external drive ahead of my new comp arriving (assuming it does :rolleyes:) and I've got an option to alter the 'Allocation Unit Size'. I'll be using this external drive to host the paging file on is there any optimum setting for this when formatting it, that will make it as fast as possible or am I thinking too much?

Thanks :)

*Edit*

I've also got a recent 80Gig hard drive which I could put on the internal bus of the new computer. Would it be faster to have the paging file hosted on a drive on the internal bus than it would having it stored on one which connects through a USB cable (external drive)?

Edited August 14, 2009 by chris330

[echo1 0]

Hi,

The pagefile will be best on a SATA or even IDE drive compared with a USB drive. That said, your pagefile is only going to take heavy use if you're out of RAM. If you have 2-4GB or more, it's not all that relevant to move it onto it's own partition or hard drive or whatever.

[chris330 0]

More great info, thanks again.

I assume the SATA or IDE drives run off the internal bus is that correct?

The game in question is revolutionary in concept but has been created by a bunch of guys who although we think have alot of pro qualifications have been pretty much learning many aspects of the job as they go and thus their code is nowhere near as slick as modern standards of code are so the hard drive hit is quite common, and it has a nasty tendency to occur when your dive bombing and the ground objects are rendering in increased stages of detail and normally right over an intense MMOG battle with lots of onlookers around on both sides to watch your Blenheim Mark 4 fly straight into the ground.

The machine will have 2Gig of RAM and I'm going to run it on XP bare bones which should be fast but I'm still expecting the odd hard drive hit.

Given what you've just said I'm going to put the paging file on the internal bus or buses (are there more than one?). I need to have a look though I'm not sure if the one I have is SATA or IDE? Are SATA & IDE abbreviations that relate to the communications bus type they use within or are they references to the type of actual hard drive being used :confused:

*Edit* I'm looking at this graphics card BTW. Is the DDR rating relevant to compatability on these? I know the one I've bought comes with 2Gig of DDR2 memory, does this mean the DDR3 memory on board the graphics card in the link is still ok?

[echo1 0]

I assume the SATA or IDE drives run off the internal bus is that correct?

Yeah. They're connected to the Southbridge on the motherboard.

Given what you've just said I'm going to put the paging file on the internal bus or buses (are there more than one?). I need to have a look though I'm not sure if the one I have is SATA or IDE? Are SATA & IDE abbreviations that relate to the communications bus type they use within or are they references to the type of actual hard drive being used :confused:

IDE (which is sometimes called PATA) and SATA are two seperate interfaces for connecting the hard drive to the computer. IDE uses a parallel connector, and SATA uses a serial one. You can tell which one your drive is by the socket it uses - PATA uses a long rectangular socket with about 40 pins, where as SATA uses something that's similar to a USB connector. You can find pictures easily using Google. Most computers made after about 2004-2005 will have SATA drives, but IDE is still popular for CD/DVD drives.

Is the DDR rating relevant to compatability on these? I know the one I've bought comes with 2Gig of DDR2 memory, does this mean the DDR3 memory on board the graphics card in the link is still ok?

No, it's not relevant. The Graphics card uses it's own memory type on it's own memory system - GDDR3, which is actually based off regular DDR2. Newer cards have GDDR5 which is based off regular DDR3.

Edited August 15, 2009 by echo1

[chris330 0]

That's great!:o

Cheers I understand that very well now. The two drives I have are both IDE (PATA) they use the big long tape type connector with all those pins. I'll stick them on the internal bus, and I'll buy that graphics card cheers;)

[wooly-back-jack 10]

*PSU: Change to a Corsair brand one.

.. if when it goes tits-up you want to pay postage to Holland for RMA (not refunded)

[echo1 0]

The whole point is that they are very reliable PSUs and you more than likely won't need to replace them.

Besides, I'm quite happy with Corsair's customer service. The connector on my 3.5 year old Flash Voyager came off and I sent it to them. They didnt make my model anymore (2GB) so they shipped out a brand new 8GB one for free :)

[chris330 0]

Hi I'm also as a last thing going to need a wireless router. I noticed most retail around £30 and go up to 54MBps which I assume is fast enough. One question though, how tricky are they to install? Will I need to buy a network card for my PC or anything (I'm sure I remember having to do this for an industrial computer we used at work once) or do I just install a driver and plug it all in? Also do most packages come with a little USB beacon to plug into remote machines or do you have to buy them seperately? I've had a good look through but couldn't see anything.

The set-up will use an existing phone line and this computer I'm using now to host the wireless router. My new machine will be in my bedroom and will access the net through the wireless router sited at this machine, if that helps make things clearer:rolleyes:

Thanks.

[echo1 0]

Hi,

In terms of routers, they're easy enough to set up. Some will have. I'd recommend ones by either Linksys (particularly the WRT54G family) Buffalo or DLink. Stay away from Belkin, I had a very bad experience with one of their routers, and their customer support.

As for the adaptors, some are PCI adaptors that require you to insert a PCI card into the motherboard. Alot are USB based, and are probably just as good, but a lot more handy to use obviously. I don't have any recommendations here because most of the stuff I've set up with Wireless networks are laptops which have their own inbuilt ones.

The set-up will use an existing phone line and this computer I'm using now to host the wireless router

Computer's don't really 'host' wireless routers. The router would connect to your modem (there's a special port on the router just for the modem) and if your computer is right beside it, you'd connect it to one of the ports on the router.

[chris330 0]

Thanks alot! I'll keep away from Belkin then. Sounds like it's not too bad. Is there any speed advantage to using a PCI port I wonder?

Anyway more good info cheers, I'll go and have a look for a wireless adaptor (I didn't even know that's what they were called!):o

;)

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 PM ----------

Hi check this one out. Seems quite good, reasonable make and it comes with a USB beacon. Thought I'd run it past you chaps first though before buying anything ;)

P.S. Is it worth bothering with refurbished ones? Or is that just asking for trouble?

[riffleman 20]

My RAM is 1GB and HDD is 180 GB.i download many mission and campaign due to some of them(campaign gruntone and mission save nogova) my pc crashes.any solution have anybody.

[chris330 0]

I'm sorry bigs I can't help you there you might want to try and provide some more information that's not really enough.

I have a problem with my new PC. I've installed my graphics card and now the monitor won't display anything. I can boot it without the DC power lead plugged in however that's obviously no use at all because although windows recognises it the driver cd doesn't because it isn't working properly.

The reason is as I found out because the power supply isn't strong enough. It is above the required wattage (card needs 400, my PSU is rated to 450W) however it cannot deliver the required minimum of 26A at 12Volts DC. It can deliver maximum 22A at 12Volts DC. I assume the card cannot draw enough current to display properly and thus is refusing to display at all.

So here's my questions:

1)Is it definitely the power supply? The graphics card's manual lists an incompatibility with the motherboard as a potential problem too. The motherboard on the machine is an: ASRock G31M-GS/G31M-S. I know nothing about these things but I assume the presence of a PCI-E slot means it's unlikely to not support this card.

2)What do I do now? Do I:

• Get a new power supply? Is this easy enough to do? I've seen a few knocking about for around £60 that look pretty good. I've looked inside my machine however and there's no universal plug between the internal power distribution wires and the PSU. Does this mean all the existing power supply wires would have to be removed and re-fitted if I bought a new power supply? Or can I leave them in situ and just do the connecting up at the PSU end? Should I really get this done professionally?
  
• Do I leave the PSU alone and source a new card? 26A at 12VDC minimum sounds awfully consumptive to me for a graphics card. Maybe it's the cards unreasonable demands that are at fault? Would I better off hassle and practicality wise just leaving the PSU alone and returning the current card I have (I've kept all the boxes) and getting a different less consumptive card?

I'd appreciate any advice you can offer thanks ;)

[echo1 0]

What model of graphics card is it? Either way, Graphics cards these days are power thirsty buggers, so a lot of power is the norm.

And if the thing is recommended for 450W and you only have 400W, it's definitely a PSU issue. You really should have about 50-100W more than you need, not the other way around.

As for a replacement, I'd recommend Corsair brand PSUs - they're the best value for money ones that are around. You should list off your PC spec, but I'd say that the 550W model they have should be sufficient. If you want to keep one that will support future upgrades, consider their 650W unit.

I don't know off the top of my head what they cost, but they're probably more than 60 pounds. The thing with PSUs is that they're the one part of the PC you really shouldn't skimp on - there are a lot of cheapass Chinese PSUs out there that people get and they cause all sorts of problems. It's one of those rare things in life where it really pays to stick by brand names. There are some companies that have earned their reputation. Others should be avoided unless good reviews from big hardware sites come out.