Warrior Vs Bradley

[Heavy Metal 0]

what does certain people has to do with this forum?

if you read all the thread you notice we have talked about bmp's, brandley's, warrior, german ifv's, and swedish cv9040..

and to the "brandley can fire on the move" i quote fas.org

Quote[/b] ]The Bradley must stop in order to fire these missiles, which are them reloaded by the Infantrymen in the back of the vehicle, using a special hatch which provides armor protection during the reload operation.

of course fas.org could be wrong, but please give me some source were it says can be fired on the move.

Fas.org about M2A2

and smokeblock, thank you for sharing your thoughts about cows and kung fu in a thread about IFVs..

It can fire the 25mm chain gun on the move.  The Bushmaster cannon that can penetrate the frontal armor on a T-72.

To Add:

Quote[/b] ]This is a bit late, but let me lay the argument to rest. In early april my Troop, A TRP 3-7CAV, seized OBJ Montgomery. My scout platoon combined with a tank platoon seized the intersection of HWY 1 and 10. At around 3am we came in contact with 10 T-72 and 20 BMP-1 and 2s, 3 MTLBs and approx. 150 dismounts. We destroyed all the enemy vehicles as they attacked us in 2 waves. My Bradley's are responsable for 90% of the vehicles destroyed. The Brad's killed all the T-72s and every single one of the M919 rounds pentrated the frontal armor. The Brads had such a higher kill ratio due to rate of fire, location on the battlefield, and faster target acquisition.

[.granQ. 0]

my exemple was with the tow, but sure a 25 mm cannon can knock out alot of t72's.. too bad sweden only has 40 mm cannon.

[Heavy Metal 0]

What makes penetration is the sectional density of the projectile and its hardness, not it's caliber. Small projectiles can and do often out penetrate larger projectiles. A small projectile has to deform much less armor to penetrate.

For example: A 9mm parabellum FMJ will easily out penetrate a .45ACP FMJ.

[engen 0]

IIRC, the 40mm APFDS-T fired from the Strf9040 has a tungsten core, and has a muzzlevelocity of 1475m/s.

the M919 is around 1250 m/s ?

Tungsten and depleted uranium are equal in comparison, only Tungsten is more expensive. Also juding by the fact the 40mm is a bigger, heavier round being fired at a higher speed, at impact it would transfer more of it's energy onto the target, inflicting more damage.

Source;

http://www.infantry.army.mil/29thInf/courses/bmg/M919infopaper.pdf

Cheers,

Shar

[Heavy Metal 0]

Quote[/b] ]at impact it would transfer more of it's energy onto the target, inflicting more damage.

A 40mm projectile will have to deform around three times the amount of surface area to penetrate the same amount of armor as a 25mm projectile of the same diameter assuming equal construction.

Which is easier to drive into a board? A skinny nail or a fat one?

DU has numerous advantages over tungsten

Quote[/b] ]

Depleted Uranium [DU]

In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.

DU can be used to engage the enemy at greater distances than tungsten penetrators or high explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds because of improved ballistic properties. When they strike a target, tungsten penetrators blunt while DU has a self-sharpening property. DU ammunition routinely provides a 25 percent increase in effective range over traditional kinetic energy rounds.

On impact with a hard target (such as a tank) the penetrator may generate a cloud of DU dust within the struck vehicle that ignites spontaneously creating a fire that increases the damage to the target. Due to the pyrophoric nature of DU, many of the DU particles and fragments that are formed during and following impact and perforation will spontaneously ignite, resulting in a shift of the particle size probability distribution function to a smaller mean diameter. As a result of physical differences between DU and its oxides, the oxide particles tend to crumble under relatively weak mechanical forces, further shifting the particle size to an even smaller mean diameter.

The amount of depleted uranium which is transformed into dust will depend upon the type of munition, the nature of the impact, and the type of target. The number of penetrators hitting a target depends upon many factors, including the type and size of the target. On average, not more than 10% of the penetrators fired by planes equipped with large machine guns hit the target (20 - 30 mm rounds). DU munitions which do not hit hard targets will penetrate into the soft ground or remain more or less intact on the surface. These will corrode over time, as metalic DU is not stable under environmental conditions.

US forces also use DU to enhance their tanks’ armor protection. In one noteworthy incident, an M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, its thick steel armor reinforced by a layer of DU sandwiched between two layers of steel, rebuffed a close-in attack by three of Iraq's T-72 tanks. After deflecting three hits from Iraq's tanks, the Abrams’ crew dispatched the T-72s with a single DU round to each of the three Iraqi tanks.

Depleted uranium is also used in numerous commercial applications requiring a very dense material. These include: ballast and counterweights; balancing control devices on aircraft; balancing and vibration damping on aircraft; machinery ballast and counterweights; gyrorotors and other electromechanical counterweights; shielding for medicine and industry; shipping container shielding for radiopharmaceuticals; chemical catalyst; pigments; and, x-ray tubes.

History

The Army uses alloyed DU in the 25, 105, and 120 millimeter (mm) kinetic energy cartridges. The Bradley Fighting Vehicle uses the 25 mm cartridge (not released for use as of May 1995) in its chain gun. The M1 and M60 series tanks use the 105 mm cartridge; the Army also plans to use the 105 mm in the main gun of the XM8 Armored Gun System. The M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams Tank main guns use the 120 mm cartridge. DU is used as an armor component on the M1 series heavy armor (HA) tanks. Small amounts of DU are used as an epoxy catalyst for the M86 Pursuit Deterrent Munition (PDM) and the Area Denial Artillery Munition (ADAM).

During the late 1950s, the primary material used for kinetic energy, armor-piercing projectiles was tungsten carbide. When first fielded, tungsten carbide represented a quantum improvement over its nearest competitor, high carbon steel. Its higher density (approximately 13 gm/cc) gave it superior penetration performance against existing armor targets. With the advent of double and triple plated armor in the 1960s, however, tungsten munitions showed a tendency to break up before penetrating the layered armor. This deficiency spurred the development of new alloys and materials capable of defeating any armored threats.

In response to the new operational requirements, a succession of metal alloys were evaluated. Initially, the UK Government developed a higher density tungsten alloy consisting of 93 percent tungsten and 7 percent binder tungsten alloy (WA). The new WA alloy had a density of 17 gm/cc versus 13 gm/cc for tungsten carbide. From 1965 to 1972, the US Army conducted a parallel development program for the 152mm XM578 cartridge which was co-developed with the MBT-70 Tank. The XM578 cartridge used a tungsten alloy that was slightly denser than the British alloy consisting of 97.5 percent tungsten and 2.5 percent binder, which had a density of 18.5 gm/cc.

Throughout the 1960s and early 1970s, the Army developed a successive series of improved 105 mm rounds (the primary main gun caliber on M-60 and developmental XM-1 series tanks) using the denser 97.5% tungsten alloy. The first of these rounds were the XM735 and XM774 cartridges derived from the XM578 cartridge program. These alloys proved sufficient to meet the Army’s operational requirements. At the same time, the Army continued to investigate applications for depleted uranium [DU].

One of the Army’s first uses of DU was as a ballistic weight in the spotting round for the Davy Crockett missile warhead. Additionally, in the early 1960s, the Army tested a four-alloy "UQuad" containing DU in experimental tests on the 105mm and 120mm Delta Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabots (APFSDS). Tungsten continued to be favored over DU, however, for two main reasons: 1) DU was still developmental, and inconsistencies with the alloys in the manufacturing process were a persistent problem; and 2) penetration tests against older Soviet tanks and similar targets failed to show the clear penetration superiority of the DU round.

In the mid-1970s, as it became clear that the latest-generation armors might prove impervious to tungsten carbide penetrators, the Army’s focus on improved tungsten alloys began to shift. At the same time, parallel Air Force and Navy tests using smaller-caliber (20-, 25-, and 30mm) ammunition had demonstrated quite convincingly the clear penetration superiority of DU rounds.

In 1973, the Army evaluated alternatives for improving the lethality of its 105mm M68 tank gun. This effort grew into the XM774 Cartridge Program which, after an extensive developmental testing and evaluation program, selected depleted uranium alloyed with ľ percent by weight titanium (U-3/4Ti). The selection of U-3/4Ti derived in part from improved designs and alloys that allowed the DU core to withstand high acceleration without breaking up. In the 1960s, tungsten alloys used in the XM578 projectile had to be encased in a steel jacket to withstand the extreme firing velocities of the 152mm gun, reducing the penetrating effectiveness of the tungsten cartridge. The new U-3/4Ti alloy overcame these early limitations for large caliber munitions.

Development of U-3/4Ti ushered in a new generation of penetrators for the Army. Since the selection of DU for the XM774 cartridge, all major developments in tank ammunition have selected DU, including the 105mm M833 series and the 120mm M829 series (the latter being the primary anti-armor round used in the Gulf War). This pattern continues today, with the latest generation of the 105mm M900 series and the 25mm M919 for the Bradley Fighting Vehicle.

In the early 1970s, the Air Force developed the GAU-8/A air to surface gun system for the A-10 close air support aircraft. This unique aircraft, designed to counter the massive Soviet/Warsaw Pact armored formations spearheading an attack into NATO’s Central Region, was literally designed and built around the GAU-8. This large, heavy, eight-barreled 30-mm cannon was designed to blast through the top armor of even the heaviest enemy tanks. To further exploit the new cannon’s tremendous striking power, the Air Force opted to use the depleted uranium U-3/4Ti, a 30mm API round. A comprehensive Environmental Assessment of the GAU-8 ammunition was released on January 18, 1976. The report stated that the proposed action was expected to have no significant environmental impact and that the "biomedical and toxicological hazards of the use of depleted uranium (DU) in this program are practically negligible." The A-10 aircraft was deployed to United States Air Forces in Europe (USAFE) in 1978.

The Navy’s Phalanx Close-In Weapon System, or CIWS was designed for terminal (last-ditch) defense against sea-skimming missiles. The Navy evaluated a wide range of materials before deciding on DU alloyed with 2 percent molybdenum (DU-2Mo). Phalanx production started in 1978, with orders for 23 USN and 14 Foreign Military Sales systems; however, subsequent budget cuts reduced these numbers. In 1988 the Navy opted to transition the CIWS 20mm round from DU to tungsten. The Navy made the decision based on live fire tests that showed that tungsten met the Navy’s performance requirements while offering reduced probabilities of radiation exposure and environmental impact. It should be noted that the "soft" targets the CIWS was designed to defeat—anti-ship missiles at close range—are far easier to destroy than "hard" targets like tanks. Substantial stocks of DU ammunition delivered prior to that date remain in the inventory.

DU munitions were first used in the Gulf War of 1991. A total of 320 tons (290,300 kilograms) of DU projectiles were fired by the US during the Gulf War. DU friendly fire and accidental fire incidents contaminated a total of 31 US combat vehicles (16 Abrams tanks and 15 Bradley armored vehicles) in the Gulf during 1990-1991. These incidents, and the resultant cleanup and recovery operations, exposed a number of soldiers to depleted uranium. Those with the highest exposures were in, on, or near vehicles when they were struck.

US Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft fired approximately 10,000 30mm DU rounds (3.3 tons of DU) at 12 sites in Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1994-1995. In 1999, they fired nearly 31,000 DU rounds (10.2 tons of DU) at 85 sites in Kosovo.

[Just an OFP Freak 0]

What about other Wheeled IFVs.

Valuk, not that expensive and still packs a punch,

-can be fitted with a variety of weapons:

The vehicle is equipped with a stabilised Overhead Weapon Station supplied by the Rafael Israel Armament Development Authority. The Overhead Weapon Station OWS-25 is armed with a 25 mm Bushmaster Cannon and a 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun.

The gunner can survey, acquire and track a target, aim and fire from inside the turret with a closed hatch or in a head-out position. The gunner's station is equipped with a day and night periscope sighting and observation system. The day periscope sight has a unity magnification window with a collimated aiming circle and an 8x magnification sight with a ballistic reticle. The night periscope sight has a unity magnification window and an image intensifier x7.5 magnification passive night elbow.

The weapon station can also be fitted with externally mounted TOW long-range anti-tank guided missiles.

-offers formidable protection:

The standard armoured protection is rated to withstand 7.62 mm armour piercing rounds through a full 360 degrees, and 12.7 mm armour piercing rounds over a 30 degree frontal arc.

Rafael has supplied a passive add-on ceramic armour kit for the Valuk which provides 12.7 mm AP round protection over the full 360 degrees.

The crew door at the rear of the vehicle is equipped with a periscope sight. The crew is protected against anti-tank and anti-personnel mines and a full nuclear, biological and chemical warfare protection system is fitted. The crew compartment is fitted with an automatic fire detection and fire fighting system with 3 fire sensors and three Halon 1301 gas containers.

A version of the Valuk has been built with a rear ramp with an emergency door instead of two doors. The vehicle can also be equipped with a capstan type cable winch.

-It may not be as sophisticated as Bradley but still a fine vehicle

[b_ringer25 0]

does it really matter who has the better ifv its more like who has the best army, and its hands down USA now competition maybe china cause they have like 3 billion people.

[stgn 39]

does it really matter who has the better ifv its more like who has the best army, and its hands down USA now competition maybe china cause they have like 3 billion people.

yes but the US got more Abombs I do not see a war even a cold one froming and they only have 1.2 billion or somthing and even if we should pretend on a land war betwhen US and China I think the us would have an egde both tecnological and better equiped troops but i am only guessing cause i havent realy studied the Chiness army.

STGN

[the_shadow 0]

If you´re interested i have a 18,48 min film with CV90 on my FTP...

the file is 156980kb big

you can find it here: ftp://217.210.115.136/Movies/

User: Guest

pass: Guest

enjoy... (it´s not only CV90 though, it´s mostely some Armoured recon...)

[edit] if the link don´t work, try ftp://217.210.115.136/ same user and password

the film will be under "movies"

oh, and my FTP will be down from 12Pm (CET) to 10Am (CET) everyday...

i´m not sure but my IP may change... if it does you can just send me a PM or a mail and i´ll answe with the new IP...