New map style which encourages front-line battle

[Coins 0]

Few missions have been able to create the front-line battle scenes that we see in movies. Some have scripted battles through waypoints or revolved a mission around one particular location on the map to create this atmosphere. The truth is, it's hard to get so few people to fight at one spot on such a large map without a good incentive, and I would ask mission-makers to try this idea out:

Flagbearer

-there is one flag on the map

-this flag must be carried to the enemy's base

-the catch is, it is carried on foot by a civilian flagbearer

-the flagbearer's approximate location is marked on the map for everybody to see

-the flagbearer cannot be ordered into vehicles

-the flagbearer is invulnerable

-the flagbearer follows the move orders of the side that had x #units last within its radius (determined by mission-maker)

-the flagbearer stops if both sides are within its radius

How will this play out in your mission?

The attacking side (the one currently controlling the flagbearer's move orders) will probably want to protect the vicinity around him by scouting up front and protecting the flanks and rear. The occasional enemy scout that enters the radius of the FB will not do anything if x is set higher than 1. But once many enemies start entering the radius, a battle erupts as the FB goes static. Imagine that scene in A Bridge Too Far where Michael Caine has to move the tank column up the road but is stopped frequently by heavy concentrations of Germans in the woods. This map style should work great in all modes: no-respawn, group/side respawn and base-respawn.

Please add opinions and comments in this thread so that mission-makers can make better front-line battles.

[Coins 0]

Another variation could be having a sole AI flagbearer on each side who is allowed to pick up the one flag on the island and can only react to move orders (no boarding vehicles). This might be a better option if having a civilian in the midst of battle might seem a bit awkward. In this case, the AI flagbearer can be killed and the enemy flagbearer can pick up the flag.

A slight alteration could be to have more than one flagbearer per team, possibly one per group. This is almost a definite for no respawn or group/side respawn modes.

One problem could be if the flagbearer is walking beside a body of water and a tank shot blows him far into the ocean or lake.

And I was thinking, in order to give the position of the flagbearer without giving away his exact position, creating a circle of a large radius around location will not work because the flag is always at the dead centre. Instead, use a squares method: if flag is in square Gb24, light up that square.

[.granQ. 0]

problem is that will hard to keep that guy alive, so much that can kill him.. maybe if you did a custom soldier, that has like no hitpoints, is totaly invisible but has the flag proxy, so you just see a flag move around... but the idea sounds great for those fightings, and you can actually make the area pretty large, like 100 meter and count the soldiers in that ring.. (thinking about fighting on the fields, hills and such), if you doing a urban mission 50 meters maybe better.. but really liked the idea.

[Coins 0]

Actually that's a really good idea. Anyone know how to make such an addon? Move orders could be given to it via map markers.

[deathsai 0]

I personally think that a better idea is a "King of the Hill" mode where both sides are constantly respawning reinforcements. They must attack the town/hill/fortified position/etc. and hold it for a set amount of time. The AI should all have allowfleeing of 25% or so, since it takes so long for them to turn around and retreat. This would allow for routing and retreating without any sort of complex scripting.

[Coins 0]

Yes, King of the Hill is fun but you could also have that map style using the mobile flag idea. If the mobile flag (someone should make this addon) is spawned just outside the attacker's forward base on the foot of the hill, the attackers must bring the flag to the top of the enemy hill to win. For the enemy, their job is to repel the attack and move the flag inside the attacker's forward base. If this mission was in base-respawn mode, the defenders could respawn far from the hill and must be choppered in and the attackers could respawn at a rear base and must be trucked in.

But the mobile flag idea could do so much more. Players could reenact invasions of a WHOLE island with only a handful of soldiers. For island invasions, the flag would start inland, far enough away from shore. The invaders must make it on to the beach and get to the flag ASAP. The defenders must repel the invaders by bringing the flag from inland to the beach. The defenders win if the flag is at the beach and the invaders win if the flag is at the defender's HQ in the centre of the island. If this mission was in base-respawn mode, invaders would respawn on an island off-shore and the defenders would respawn on the on the other side of the island, far enough away from the HQ.

But the most interesting mission types using mobile flags could be to have equally-balanced sides. Imagine Everon, with the flag placed initially in Montignac. If done with group/side respawn, the flag must be taken to the enemy's HQ on opposite sides of the map.

However, with base respawn, flags might not have to be taken to bases to win: Imagine merging CTI with mobile-flag front idea. Instead of capturing cities, players will gain money by moving the mobile flag up and down the island, with all cities north of the flag going to one side and south of the flag to the other. It could almost be like a football game . All military buildings, including the MHQ would have to be repairable so that the focus of the game would be on conquering the island, and advancing enemies could capture old enemy buildings. The game will be won once the flag is brought north or south enough so that all cities fall to one side.

For group/side/no respawn modes, AI-controlled groups could have a 'Guard' waypoint over the mobile flag so that their duty for the team is to keep the flag safe (although in this case they won't be able to do much more without a command system addon/modification--any help here?).

I guess this is not the right place to ask for a mobile flag addon so I'll start a topic in the Addons & Mods: Discussion forum.

[ZiRo 0]

Or, alternativly, you have a magical moving flagstick, which has the team "pushing" flag on it. It moves forward every 30 secounds, how much is depending on how many people are "at the front line".

-ZiRo

[ZiRo 0]

Working :P

its gonna be good, im making sort of a standardized script that needs no tweaking just the appropriate markers and objects placed in their places.

-ZiRo

[Coins 0]

Yes that the other option, but how do we get the 'Flag', which is in the Objects class, to move? Also the front line should be able to move in any direction so that the pushing side has a choice of paths: are they better pushing the flag over a mountain, through a pass or cut right through a dense forest, which will not guarantee them air and armour support?

Quote[/b] ]Working :P

its gonna be good, im making sort of a standardized script that needs no tweaking just the appropriate markers and objects placed in their places.

Sounds good

[ZiRo 0]

gah gah gah.

heres what i got so far it worked all up till i tried to make it work in MP (needs syncing so stuff doesnt get out of sync, eg. some bits only ran on server.)

actually i'll upload tommorow need sleep.

-ZiRo

[Coins 0]

That's great news, I have a map ready for testing a mobile-flag script.

Also a tip about marking the position of the flag: take the flag's position and round it to the nearest hundredth then add 50 to the X and Y coordinate. Use this value to set the position of a rectangle marker, radius 50,50. This will result in highlighting a square of a grid which contains the flag, giving the enemy only a partial but sufficient fix on the location of the flag.

[ZiRo 0]

My work, messed up when i tried to public variable the scripts variables

[Coins 0]

I got a problem, it said an addon was missing. Anyways, I took a look at the script. So does it run well in MP? I have something you could add to the flagmarkerpos script:

flagposX=(getpos frontlineflag select 0);

flagposY=(getpos frontlineflag select 1);

flagposX=flagposX-(flagposX%1);

flagposY=flagposY-(flagposY%1);

frontlineflag_m setpos [flagposX,flagposY];

I haven't actually tested this, but what it should do is give a grid fix on the flag instead of an exact fix.

[Coins 0]

Well I have been working on a mission that incorporates the mobile flag idea.

It's still unfinished because of a couple issues. If someone can test this out and help solve these three problems:

-need a way to keep flag in control of side that last controlled it, even if side not always in its trigger radii (if you're taking a look at the mission, this may be helpful: East and West rely on two triggers each--what's needed is a way to keep a side's triggers from auto-deactivating if the enemy's triggers are deactivated)

-need multiple squad control for a commander on each side if some playable slots unfilled (because not always easy to get 22 players)--Golf,Hotel,India and Juliet radio commands are available for use

-need radio activation based on side (because East can move flag when West controls it and vice versa)

As it is now, the flag automatically moves to the opposing side's zone unless radio commands are used to move it in a cardinal direction or halt it. A square marker gives a grid fix on the flag instead of an exact fix.

The purpose of this mission is to demonstrate the mobile flag idea so mission-makers can use it in improving their missions.

EDIT: It should be easy to navigate through the triggers because I arranged them in a funny pattern .

2ND EDIT: OK I solved the first and third problems, all I have to do now is find a way to include a primitive multi-squad system or perhaps delete the AI-controlled squads by checking if squad leaders are alive in first five seconds of game.

[Coins 0]

Just in case anybody was following this, I think I almost got all three of my problems solved, so I will be releasing the demo mission so that mission makers can have an idea on how to use the mobile flag front with group/side respawn. I decided to waive the multi-squad idea because it got too complicated and would probably create a lot of lag. So instead AI-led squads will be destroyed 3 seconds into the game.

[Coins 0]

Here it is, the MISSION FINAL, available in .pbo for those who just want to play it, and in zipped format for those who want to extract the mobile flag front feature for use in their missions. Go ahead and extract as much as you want from this demo mission. Included in the zipped format is a readme listing the triggers, game logic and markers I used in the mission editor. No addons required!

[Coins 0]

OK the links didn't work, I'll post the files up some other time.

[Coins 0]

Okay, Angelfire won't allow for direct links to downloads, so I made a webpage for the download:

Check Move

Enjoy