Ultimate Upgrade Gripe

[Cybergangster 0]

Now don't get me wrong here. I think BIS have done an excellent job to bring us such an original game as OFP. However....

I've got some issues with having to upgrade. First, I don't mind ultimate upgrades, they improve performance and add plenty of extras to make them worth while. But why is it when I wish to perform a clean install up to upgrade 1.3 that I must first upgrade to 1.2? Couldn't BIS have taken a little extra time to create an update that would allow non-US users to go from version 1 - 1.3?? It seems unfair that I am forced to take extra steps when really I am the same type of consumer as those you would find in the US...

That leads me on to a dig, aimed more at Codemasters. I have registered my version of OFP with CM. Couldn't they at least show some appreciation by sending the updates out to registered users on a CD?

Just some thoughts...

[Munkejens 0]

i think they should use the money on further development, rather than an free update CD.

they could make an 1-1.3 update, but that would make us from europe wait a little longer on our updates (and i´m the kind of type, that can´t wait ).

and it makes the download size smaller (for those with 56k).

by making one general update, they actually avoids to make a diffence between US and europe. (make sense?)

(Edited by Munkejens at 4:16 pm on Nov. 21, 2001)

[Cybergangster 0]

No, I still disagree. Especially when you consider we bought a buggy product. As a show of dedication to their user base CM SHOULD release bug fixes on to registered users (Microsoft - PAY ATTENTION). This would probebly also help discourage purchasing pirated copies.

I DO agree that the downloads should also be smaller. I can access broadband only because it is available at work. If that was not the case I would be further muffed by not recieving a CD.

[SpaceAlex 0]

Is it so hard to download both updates. Not that i care about the size of the file, but some people does. Why if you would have 33.3 or 56K modem. I don't know how much time does it take to download 80MB, but i know that it doesn't take you a little time.

[SpaceAlex 0]

Why are you complaining so much. Download the patch or shut up, and play v1.0.  

Yes. The patches would be smaller, if they wouldn't include vehicles in the patch. Anyway. They fix that with v1.30 patch. You can download patch and vehicles seperatly. But, this is not helping me much.I always download full patch, because it takes less time for me. It is heliping for others, with slower connection.

(Edited by SpaceAlex at 3:40 pm on Nov. 21, 2001)

[Cybergangster 0]

- SpaceAlex

Say you purchase a car. It's a nice car and runs fine. Then you take it onto the highway and find it won't go faster than 40Mph... You also find that the radio only plays so loud.

Then the car company releases the US version of your car and that version can reach 60Mph and the radio is fixed! You're told you need to go to the factory outlet and pick up the parts to fix these problems and install them yourself. Fine, so you take a 3 hour trip to the factory and spend 30 minutes installing the parts. All the while you would have preferred to have spent this time cruising with the radio up...

Then the company announces another addon that makes the car go as fast as you want and adds seat warmers. You don't need these but it would improve performance. So you make another trip to the factory and pick up the appropriate parts and spend an extra 30mins installing those...

Now, one day you clean your car and find you need to reinstall all of the parts again (maybe they don't react well with water or something). You know that if you had purchased an American version you would only have to spend 30 mins installing the extra parts. But alas, you got a European version and it takes about an hour to get everything refitted.

Now, wouldn't you rather have had the car company post the spare parts out to you to save at least 6 hours of your time - AND wouldn't you rather not have to reinstall everything each time you wash the car???

It's about customer service my friend. Why should I have to go to extra efforts to make up for a product that was released with bugs? Just answer that...

[SpaceAlex 0]

You can't compare car with software. Software is completley different thing. How can you even think comparing car with software.

-I ask you again. Is it so hard do download two patches? I'm sorry for your 30 minutes. I know that you have very short life. It's not right that the new bugs come with the patch. I admit that. But, v1.30 patch is almoust without bugs. Remaining bugs, are all minor bugs. Tell me the name of the company, which is giving you so much support, then BIS.

-Do you think that they'll release new version of the game for European market, and remove the remainig ones. Think. Also. Gold update of Operation flashpoint will be avaible in the beginning of the next year. Why didn't you wait until then. You would get a fully updated game with v1.40 patch. Gold Edition will include next patch v1.40(I think, that they will call it v1.40).

-We get the game already in July. Americans had to wait until September. What do you think about that? We got patch, with completley the same futures as USA version did. You download the patch for free. Oh, yes. I forgot. You will lose 30 minutes of your life. Are you one hundred years old?

-Those, who don't have internet or very slow connection, will just have to wait for the Gold update.

-One more thing. Tell me the name of the software without bugs.

Dem. I still can't belive that you compared car with software.

[YoungBob 0]

It wouldnt be at all possible for CM to distribute patch cds. Even if so it would be total financial suicide.

Having to do a fresh install after beta patches is a bit of a pisser though.

[Cybergangster 0]

- SpaceAl

The car was an example. I could have compared the software with a stereo if I chose. It's to bring things into perspective.

Now, my only gripe with BIS is that they make European users upgrade twice to get to version 1.3. Why couldn't they have given us a separate patch that skips 1.1 and 1.2? Sure, we got OFP early but why was that? Did BIS simply want Europe to BETA test this product? Now my suggestion for the upgrade CD was not aimed at BIS but aimed at the publisher - Codemasters. And as I said, sending a disk to registered users would discourage piracy and that means more dosh for BIS who can invest it into further improvements which we would then get on our CD updates which encourages new users to register, so on and so forth...

As for a company that offers so much support - this game is only 6 months old and we've had 3 major updates to get things right. Are you say this is the code of practice all software developers should follow?

And why are you getting so worked up? I feel like I said you were gay or something...

[RN Malboeuf 12]

your comparison is incorect, you dont have the option for dloading a fix for your car

the 1.3 patch is 13 megs, and the full version is 33 megs

why waste a 600-700 meg CD on a 33 meg file?

the internet is there to provide free dloads and upgrades, just be luck yyou dont have to write in and ask for the patch like we did in the old days (or dial up Long Distance to thier BBS - I have done this on a 14.4 many times)

what is so hard in letting the dload run at night?

why do BIS/CM owe it to you to send you a CD when you so lazy?

Why do we have to listen to moronic posts?

If the net is so bad do your self a favor and play with out the updates, if your net is slow slow dont play MP and you wont need the patches

if you net is so slow why come here and tell us?

bTw with my T1 I can dload 100 hegs in about 6 mins

1 gig in 1-2 hours!

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 8:25 am on Nov. 22, 2001)

[Projekt K 0]

Ireland has some of the most expensive charges for dial-up access anywhere in Europe, and yet I have to say I was quite happy to spend a few hours downloading the updates (and a few missions, etc) on 56k (well, 44k). I believe that OFP was released here before the US, so that seems to be some compensation, and as far as I'm concerned (same with ANY software, drivers, etc.) I never feel that I've bought a completely finished product - I always expect to download patches, etc. This seems to me to be an advantage - things get fixed, our friends in Ceska Republika keep supporting OFP, and we have a game which improves. OFP was actually one of the only games (besides Bladerunner and Grim Fandango that I really was glad I'd bought). An upgrade CD would be a pain - it's bad enough having to take such good care of my original CD because of FADE: I find it reassuring to know that anything I ever need to patch the game can be found online (rather than having to obtain a CD - even a magazine costs about $8 here) whatever happens to my hard drive or whatever, and that even if CM and BIS disappear for some reason, that somewhere someone will have the files. Having said all that, I wish that Ireland would catch up with the US and give us even the option of cable or ADSL (could have ISDN for about $250 installation, $50/month + normal internet charges for the phone call - not to mention 2Xcharges for 128K speeds - that's obviously not really worth it...)

Anyway, three cheers for Bohemia Interactive. [Diky ! OFP je skvely !]

p_K

[Kazama 0]

Well, good for you, you can d/l 1 gig in a short amount of time.

There are still a lot of people who, whether its due to financial reasons or practical reasons, cant have a faster connection than the 56k that came with the machine.

You're correct, the internet is there to provide updates and downloads - but it isn't there to create a way for game companies to use it as an excuse to produce poorley made games. There is an attitude within the community that if there's a problem then it can all be fixed with a download from the internet, and this is what makes them rely far too much on it.

Malboeuf you've taken the attitude of 'I'm allright Jack, sod the rest of you', and you've said how you spent long time downloading stuff from BBS on a 14.4 modem -was that enjoyable, or was it extremely boring? Plus, then updates were prob a lot smaller, requiring only kb updates.

I have a 56k modem, and due to the fact that I'm at University and in Halls, I am unable to have broadband installed (the Uni wouldnt take to kindly to me having Ntl round), and I hate big downloads. Spending 3 hours downloading a patch which fixes bugs that should have been fixed before it was released.

In the 'good old days' there was such a thing called 'testing', something which they seem to have forgotten about.

And dont reply by saying that PCs are all different so they cant fix bugs like they can for consoles - although this maybe true for actual techinical problems like not working with a certain soundcard, this can not however be true for gameplay bugs, which can and should be sorted out in the testing process.

Don't get me wrong - I like the game, I love the game, but I just think that a little bit more time should be taken to sort out problems that effect gameplay badly.

Maybe CM/BIS dont owe the consumer a CD sent out with the patches on, they do, however, owe the consumer a finished product, that is 'fit for its purpose' (Sales of Goods Act). Is a bug ridden game fit for its purpose? I dont think so.

And you want a company that gives good customer support? Sierra do. After I sent them an e-mail saying that I had no sound in a certain game, they replied saying that there was a file missing in the installation - and did they send me to some site to download the missing file? Nope, they sent me a CD with the file on it.

[MrLaggy 0]

It would have made very little difference if they'd released a patch which went from 1.0->1.3, because most of the files in the 1.2 patch would then have to be included in the 1.3 patch... you'd still have had to download almost as much as downloading the two seperately, and those of us who'd already downloaded the 1.2 patch would have had to download it _again_ as part of 1.3.

[SpaceAlex 0]

Whatever

[Cybergangster 0]

Phew, thank you Projekt K for taking time to read my post and answer with some thought.There seems to be a problem on this forum that there are too many angry teenagers who are just looking for a chance to flame.

I too have costly dial-up from home. To my consession I do have broadband access at work which works fine for me to obtain the updates when they arrive. Now, I have not suggested that BIS replace the free downloads with an update CD. Certainly keep the updates available online for free downloads. But as a bonus for users who take the time to register send out a CD as well. It doesn't have to be a CD containing every update. It could be one CD released with all of the updates when CM releases Red Hammer???

Mr Laggy - Sierra have a policy with the Half-Life updates where they release a "mini update" which goes from the most recent version to the current and they also release a full patch which updates from version 1.0 (I think the latest FULL patch is 80Mb). Is it so hard for BIS to take similar action?

As for my question on why OFP was released 3 months early in Europe - any answers??

[RN Malboeuf 12]

yes I Will reply with the fact that there are to many systems for any Game maker to keep up with.

BIS and EVERY other Company cant test every system in the world, to do so would make even more delays.

it's obvious that you two have no clue when it comes to the Demograghics of the Time, man power, and the immediate need of the masses for a patch.

there is no cost effective way to send a CD to thousands of players that can simply spend 2-3 hours downloading a 12-33 meg file off the internet

To actually complaing that BIS OWES THEM a Patch and or CD is laughable

The fact that BIS has made 6 patches allready is proooooooooof that they have gone out of thier way to OWE you a patch

and why place 1.3 on a CD by it's self when we all know there will be at least two more patches

now if OFP was ready (say1.41) in time for the Red Hammer upgrade the yea I'm sure they would place it on the CD as well, but it's not so it wont be placed on it

PLease get a life,please just dload it at night like the rest of the Dial up world does

I've spent 5+hours in the old days just using 14.4 on Long Distance just to beta test test for Sirrea Soft. I did it for a free game and never griped about the $100 is cost to get the game faster over long distance!

[Cybergangster 0]

- Malboeuf

THANK YOU!

At last, an intellectual, thought out answer. Pitty you had to degrade yourself with the 'get a life' comment.

But on the upside you have convinced me that perhaps I am expecting too much. I do still feel robbed at the fact that I must download two patches to get up to date but alas, if this were a perfect world...

[RN Malboeuf 12]

tel you what, if you want a CD I mail you one after the last patch is out

you should get it 2 days - 6 weeks depending on where you live

compare that also to a 5 hour dload

I'm a meany, I know that.

[Kazama 0]

Did I say that they owe us a patch / CD? No, I just said that they owe us a working game, its what we pay for.

I never said that they ought to fix problems regarding obscure technical problems - I said that they ought to have fixed bugs that effect gameplay.

Surely the fact that they've made 6 patches means that there has been a lot of bugs to fix?

And if you wanna send me the patches on a CD, thats okay by me.

(Edited by Kazama at 11:23 pm on Nov. 22, 2001)

[VecteR 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from SpaceAlex on 6:02 pm on Nov. 21, 2001

You can't compare car with software. Software is completley different thing.  How can you even think comparing car with software.

<span id='postcolor'>

yepp - you can give a car back if it is crap

try to give pack an open retailpackage of a computer game to your local dealer....

and people have to know that they get crappy computer products today...

AND they don´t have to complain about crappy software because there is always another software that is much worse so they should be happy that they bought a prtoduct that ONLY includes 256 bugs

BIS did a great job.... BLABLA

.....

[VecteR 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 8:48 pm on Nov. 22, 2001

tel you what, if you want a CD I mail you one after the last patch is out

<span id='postcolor'>

hmmm "LAST PATCH".....

which will be the LAST patch?

the one that fixes ALL the bugs or the next one?

[zovirl 0]

Just a quick question:

Is there any retail software company that sends patches to customers on CD for free? I mean, someone mentioned Microsoft, but TechNET costs a fortune! I don't think I have ever heard of a retail software company doing this.

I have access to a T1 connection, plus live in the states so I don't have to worry about paying huge connection fees if I want to download overnight on my modem, so I guess I am spoiled. What I don't get is how did we ever survive without the Internet? I guess the games were dirt simple and didn't need patches

[Cybergangster 0]

Okay, I know I'm coming about in a full circle Buuuuut....

Why register your product if there are no benefits? :confused:

[RN Malboeuf 12]

I'll mail a CD to any that  wants one, but only after the LAST offical Patch

so we're talking about a 1 year before you get a CD

hhhmmmm, mabey you should just dload it

(Edited by RN Malboeuf at 7:24 am on Nov. 23, 2001)

[Cybergangster 0]

You know, it does pay to read posts before you reply with verbal vomit.  No one has complained about having to download.  We've just pointed out it would  be nice to recieve a CD with patches.

BUT, before you flame me again, remember I've already given in to the dark side of the force.

Oh, and I will take you up on that CD when we recieve the last official patch.

(Edited by Cybergangster at 10:14 am on Nov. 23, 2001)