Aussie sub sinks us navy ships

[theavonlady 2]

Sort of.

Quote[/b] ]'Dud' subs defeat US in exercise

Ian McPhedran, defence reporter

24sep03

THE Australian Navy's troubled Collins Class submarines have sunk the pride of the US nuclear submarine fleet plus warships from Singapore and are now regarded as a lethal undersea force.

At certain speeds they are virtually undetectable and can transform themselves into underwater black holes, according to submarine group commander Commodore Mike Deeks.

"The Americans expect to hear us easily but we are not there," Commander Deeks said. "It is hard for them to find us, but meanwhile we have already found them."

The boats, which have been plagued by mechanical, structural, system and noise problems, are still troubled by an unreliable combat system but during a recent exercise against a US nuclear boat off Western Australia and warships from Singapore off northern Australia, they were deadly.

According to one observer HMAS Rankin "sank" a Singaporean ship fitted with some of the world's most advanced anti-submarine warfare equipment. And the Americans were shocked by the performance of the Australian submarine.

"We surprise them and they learn a lot about different ways of operating submarines," Commodore Deeks said. "The Americans pour billions into their submarines but we are better at practical applications."

During the exercise at a special undersea range off the WA coast, the Collins boat was invisible to the Americans, who were caught off guard on several occasions.

The US boat was "sunk" by practice torpedos fired by HMAS Waller.

The torpedos, with dummy warheads and in-built safety systems, pass over or under the enemy vessel and record a hit when they are later recovered on the surface.

Noise is crucial in undersea warfare and the early noise problems of the Collins boats have been fixed and the crews know exactly how to operate the boats in near silence.

"We are a lot better at avoiding noise and we know exactly what speed to make them a black hole in the water," Commodore Deeks said.

Stealth and an ability to operate in shallow water make the Collins fleet an ideal partner for the larger and faster deep-water US nuclear boats.

The Collins boats are fairly big at 3300 tonnes, but pale by comparison with the US nuclear boats which range to 18,750 tonnes for the inter-continental ballistic missile boats.

The Collins boats will be fitted with a new combat system progressively from 2006.

"We are looking forward to it being fitted and it will be a nice improvement," Commodore Deeks said.

Despite the good news, a question mark remains over the fate of the first boat, HMAS Collins, which has thousands of weld defects due to poor workmanship.

Those problems, plus some intellectual property issues, must be resolved before the Adelaide-based Australian Submarine Corporation can be sold.

DEADLY ... the Collins Class submarine is proving to be lethal. The craft showed its stealth during a recent exercise off Western Australia.

[Stag 0]

Interesting. I thought the Collins class was a re-badged UK Upholder class. Turns out to be a native Aussie design.

WTG Diggers!

[waffendennis 0]

This is an Badass Submarine it's an cool one.

[denoir 0]

Cool, but hardly surprising. Diesel subs are far more difficult to detect than nuclear subs. The disadvantage is that they have to snorkel once every few weeks and then leave a nice thermal signature for satellite to pick up. Nucs on the other hand can stay submerged for months.

[-TU--33ker 0]

Small subs still are the most dangerous anti ship weapons. I think Germany's next generation fuel cell plant submarines are going to "sink" even more NATO ships in the future

[Major Fubar 0]

Funny - you mention "Collins class" to most Australians and it instantly conjures up images of malfunctions and overspending. They have a very poor reputation here (well, at least with the media and the general public, never met anyone who actually served on one).

[Stag 0]

Cool, but hardly surprising. Diesel subs are far more difficult to detect than nuclear subs. The disadvantage is that they have to snorkel once every few weeks and then leave a nice thermal signature for satellite to pick up. Nucs on the other hand can stay submerged for months.

Every few Weeks, or every other day?

Still, to spot the thermal plume, the satellite has to be looking there in the first place.

[Guest]

Funny - you mention "Collins class" to most Australians and it instantly conjures up images of malfunctions and overspending. They have a very poor reputation here (well, at least with the media and the general public, never met anyone who actually served on one).

Tell me about it! When I saw this posted up I thought "Gees..old news " then I thought "Wow! Someone is actually impressed by those lemons!"

They are made in my hometown, so I've heard sooooo much about them

[Mr. Snrub 0]

Interesting. I thought the Collins class was a re-badged UK Upholder class. Turns out to be a native Aussie design.

WTG Diggers!

The Collins-class is actually based on a Swedish design, but were built here. I think British & German designs were considered, but not selected.

It is nice to know that they aren't the bucket of crap the media makes them out to be. From what I've heard recently, most of the problems have been ironed out, and they are pretty much world-class now...

As a side note, we came close to really sinking a US ship in 1969 when we accidently drove our only aircraft carrier into a US destroyer...

Quote[/b] ] Within the month, Melbourne was involved in another disaster. Early on the 3rd of June, in the course of an exercise in the South China Sea, Melbourne and the USS Frank E. Evans collided, with the loss of 74 crew of the smaller ship.

Unarguably tragic as the event was, the crew of Melbourne were nonetheless officially recognised for their subsequent rescue actions by the US government.

From HMAS Melbourne info

[denoir 0]

Every few Weeks, or every other day?

Every few weeks. You know technology has developed a bit since ww2

Quote[/b] ]The Collins-class is actually based on a Swedish design, but were built here.

Yeah, it's a type 471, built by Kockums. The Swedish navy dropped that design in favour of the next generation sub called Gotland (type A19).

[ozanzac 0]

Leone, you from Adelaide, too? Cool, I don't feel completly isolated no more. . It's a small world after all.

These subs were duds.

Quote[/b] ]Despite the good news, a question mark remains over the fate of the first boat, HMAS Collins, which has thousands of weld defects due to poor workmanship.

What they don't say is that the first sub was prefabricated in Sweeden!

They say the Weopons system is a dud as well. Imagine what they'll be like when they get the new in.

*edit* Snrub, hate to say it, but a carrier has right of way, especially when the US ship was acting as an escort. It's alot harder to redirect a carrier than a smaller destroyer. But still a sad tale nonetheless.

[ozanzac 0]

Heres one a Collins class sub prepared earlier!

Before Torpedo Explosion

During Torpedo Explosion

After Torpedo Explosion

More info and pics from http://www.sh2fleet.com/subsim1/page39.html

[Placebo 29]

Original "post" edited to make it a "proper" post, c'mon it takes 10 seconds if that.

[Guest]

Leone, you from Adelaide, too? Cool, I don't feel completly isolated no more. . It's a small world after all.

These subs were duds.

Quote[/b] ]Despite the good news, a question mark remains over the fate of the first boat, HMAS Collins, which has thousands of weld defects due to poor workmanship.

What they don't say is that the first sub was prefabricated in Sweeden!

They say the Weopons system is a dud as well. Imagine what they'll be like when they get the new in.

*edit* Snrub, hate to say it, but a carrier has right of way, especially when the US ship was acting as an escort. It's alot harder to redirect a carrier than a smaller destroyer. But still a sad tale nonetheless.

Yeah....psycho little town ain't it! We would build the subs better, but we're too busy stuffing people in barrels.

PS Don't know if you saw it, but there was a good doco on the ABC the other night about the Voyager/Melbourne incident. Devious political stuff there

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah....psycho little town ain't it! We would build the subs better, but we're too busy stuffing people in barrels.

Mmm, tell me about it. And misderecting gunfire at newspaper delivery men! It is a strange town, don't no why but some uni professor or dr in the last few days or weeks tried to give a half reasonable explanation! I wish I could find it, it made me laugh!

Quote[/b] ]PS Don't know if you saw it, but there was a good doco on the ABC the other night about the Voyager/Melbourne incident. Devious political stuff there

Didn't see it last night, but have seen it before, but could be mixing it up with something I saw on the discovery channel, QEII and some other escort ship in WWII when the QEII was a troop ship. But I think I've seen both.

[theavonlady 2]

Original "post" edited to make it a "proper" post, c'mon it takes 10 seconds if that.

Oh.......................................

You're talking to me.

[Placebo 29]

"I don't see anyone else standing here"

[Mr. Snrub 0]

*edit* Snrub, hate to say it, but a carrier has right of way, especially when the US ship was acting as an escort. It's alot harder to redirect a carrier than a smaller destroyer. But still a sad tale nonetheless.

Very true, both the Voyager & the Frank E. Evans were the ones at fault. I missed that documentary, but I had the general jist of it described to me

Does anyone know which US & Singaporean ships were sunk?