CTF Discussion

[RN Malboeuf 12]

I thought you said would ignore my post?

one other thing do you remember me killing you in your Shika, you we Base raping then, and I killed you 3 other snipers who were basing Raping, tsk tsk

[Corporal Ice 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Morchaoron on 5:38 pm on Nov. 20, 2001

Respawn camping = bad and spoils all fun

Satcheling flags.... hmmm its by the rules... but i think it should be changed (not being able to satchel the area near the flag in a 50 meter radius or something like that)

I mean come on.... 5 people hiding in bushes waiting to detonate their bombs at their flag is nonsense.

Thats my opinion

<span id='postcolor'>

I agree with that (5 people ..........) But there is a huge difference if there is only one man, and (important) that man actiates the bomb when he see the enemy (not when the message "flag taken" appears, cause that can be done from the other side of the map).

I have never made that in the respawn area, only in the vicinity of the flag. Cause other players can´t defend theirselves at the respawn area (can´t avoid the Satchell). But in the flag area it is possible. That is tactics.

Sure U will agree thisÇ: We have info of a convoy going thru a road. We hide and put a satchell. What´s the difference?.

I also ask for the ability of enemies to deactivate my satchells, but BI doesn´t do anything...

[Corporal Ice 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lange on 5:57 pm on Nov. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Corporal Ice on 12:52 pm on Nov. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from RN Malboeuf on 7:28 am on Nov. 20, 2001

yea ok then why is CTF the mos played?

and even if that guy runs and hides you can actually still track him down

thats tactics baby YA!

<span id='postcolor'>

I think people likes CTF cause it´s a good blend between co-op and individual game types.

<span id='postcolor'>

well, I think (!) that most people do liek CTF because they dont have to use their brain and following strict orders...

ctf is NOT realistic and thats why it should removed from ofp.

When im on the field i CANNOT respawn when i die - so why ctf? ctf were made to make ofp popular to the WRONG people.

to be honest there are enough ctf adoptions out there so keep ofp free from this s**t and enhance REAL battles between teams. remove jumpin objects and so on instead adding stupid types as CTF.

CTF causes DEATHMATCH (history proves!)

or in other words how many soldiers do YOU know which do play CTF and being disciplined creative brave soldiers in the same?! right they dont exist.

kick CTF

Simon

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, that´s true, but you must admit that they are too few "serious players" for this game (I not mean they are in others), and CTF at least gives newbies (tactic newbies i mean, not OPF newbies) some kind of mission objective. CTF can force them to defend....

[Pete 1]

newbies, gamers, vets, serous gamers..what ever.

nobody wins if game is played like this.

ctf...tanks sitting at enemy spawn and killing everyone, since nobody spawns with laws its pretty effective...also, satchles by flags will take care of anyone who escapes the tank.

tdm...kill 1 (one) enemy, then run away with your buddies, run for half an hour to a thick forest really far far away..sit there and wait for the time to end, the enemy has nobody to kill and will lose since you had that one kill in the beginning...id like to see anyone track you down if you dont fire your weapons.

king of the hill games...skip the zone, go for respawn, prevent the ones in the zone from getting new people from spawn...of course, put a sniper far outside the zone and let him pick the zoners one by one and send them to respawn-####

most effective and least skill demanding is that tdm tactic, but then again...a satchel by the flag and the trigger person in a forest far away, waiting for "xxx picked up flag" message is not skill either.

for the sake of gameplay and fairplay..i propose that satchels by flags is seen as glitching/cheating..or atleast immoral method of playing....untill we get a possibility of de-activating the satchels.

since a satchels doesnt blow up a other satchel..5 guys CAN go and put one satchel each at the flag, and then take turns on blowing up the enemy as they try getting the flag...these 5 guys doesnt have to be at the flag watching it, they could aswell be at enemy base pondering how to get the enemy flag that is "defended" in a similiar way.

[CCCP 0]

Lange, RN Malboeuf

you both striking me as serious tactical minded gamers yet you argue tsk tsk tsk

Given this a CTF topic the thing that springs from it (at least for some of us) is a need for tactical/squad oriented missions. Luckily, "CONQUEST" team is back in business and although they say it'll take months to deliver there is a strong hope for quite a different types of missions (including such as "Welcome To Everon" betas and "Territory fights"). What is probably missing is common place to gather for players/squads who would like to play such missions against eachother. We're thinking about a project STRATAC (working name for startegy&tactics league/tourney/site/community/whatevercommonplace). In the past there wasn't much support for such idea. I wonder are demand and ppl wiling to do it together now there?

[RN Malboeuf 12]

at the The Rumble.com we're comming up with AD missions that require large amounts of Tactical operations, you just cant run in and shoot any more

we'll have missions that are so advanced that you can chose where you want to attack from, different locations can be selected and yet still use the same map for 10 diffrent things

using the same mission file that can be set to night or day depending on the attackers mood (neat little trigger)

[Hab 0]

If I can be as bold as to sum up.

Three problems with the CTF matches:

* There is no defence against satchel charges. One should be able to blast it or something without entering its killzone. When firing on it, it should either blow up or be rendered dud.

The reason it can be considered a game-killer is because you have to break the trance of being a soldier and face the reality that it is a game with shortcomings that are being exploited to effectively bar the flow of the game.

* The flag return countdown should keep counting as long as no enemy carries it.

* A real sniper would have to account for bullett flight time. Any man fearing a sniper should only have to zig zag to avoid him. You're still a target when lowering the flag, but that should be accepted as a "critical moment".

[unholy chosen one 1]

the way i see it they are saying you have no right to defend your flag in anyway shape or form until it is taken. thats crap. if i had tripmines claymoresor any other form of command or remote detonated devices i will use them. the whole point is to cap the enemies flag and protect your own....at all cost save altering the game code to give you an unfair advantage. spawn raping is a little more sensitive

issue. however if we look at this in a purely militaristic light ,it is every soldiers job to push the enemy back as far as possible right to his point of origin and then anihilate him. spawn rape amounts to using a blocking tactic

to keep him from resupplying and reinforcing or moreover

killing him at the source. that is why the usa is in afghanistan attempting to stop terrorism at the source(oh god please dont turn this into a political bash im just trying to prove a point) the real question is in the game is

spawn/base rape fair? fair maybe but not always fun , well not for the victims anyway. when i play or host i try to get an idea of how everyone playing feels in that regard and let the majority rule. most people are willing to go with a vote and basically stick to it.

[suchey 0]

basically, I think that the problem here lies not so much in the game, but in the lack of quality CTF maps available...almost all of the complaints could be addressed by the mission itself. However...it seems that although the community continues to pour out tons of single player missions...very few really good CTF missions are available...hopefully someone will step up to the challenge and provide us with some quality work...looks like therumble.com post above is a step in the right direction! I look forward to checking out those new maps! Please post when they are available.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

the Rumble is working on CTFs too, not like the shit CTF maps made by ofpleague.com where they are 1 sided or to borring to play (OFP3 CTF is fun but still one sided for the EAST)

We're taking our time and will be testing with in a week, each squad at the Rumble is contributing in it's own way

RN has 8 AD mission almost ready and 1 CTF

we know we'll be using the Winter Addons as well

Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.

The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER

OFP RULES!

[Pete 1]

Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.

The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER

ahah..but if it is a 8 on 8 game then?

and all 8 players of a team puts a satchel each on the flag and goes away?

since a satchel does NOT detonate a other satchel..even if the enemy was lucky enough to get in with a full 8 man team it would NOT be enough to get the flag.

all your team has to do is to take turns in blowing the satchel at the flag.

but if one could deactivate the satchels, or just shoot to blow them up, then we would talk about REAL tactics....i can believe you dont see the problem at hand with using satchels to guard flags.

[Clapper 0]

I can solve this one:

Send 2 guys in for the flag. 1 goes for the flag the other keeps a lookout (relatively far away). Now if the first player gets blown to smithereens by a satchel, the lookout can see if the enemy goes to plant another one. At this time the lookout can blow the enemy to bits before they can set a satchel.

Teamwork will always win. Ok, most of the time

[Lange 0]

ether you remove CTF

OR

you modify CTF:

that its possible to make a point without havin the flag in your base!

to secure the respawn area (automatic guns or mines with friend/foe recognition.

so its not possible to plant boobytraps or satchels at flags!

but to be honest i prefer to remove ctf completly.

spend some concentration on team vs team WITHOUT respawn.

respawn should be removed as well as ctf.

or rename the game to the unbreakables

Simon

[NoFragsBoy 0]

If you people dont like ctf but think opf is not team based enough then make a clan

you can have ranks withen the clan have an agreement to obey higher ramking officers commands ect you will kick ass and it solves your problem of everyone running of to sniper

if all the tactical thinking people did this then the opf would extremily envolving almost like single player but better

[Lange 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from NoFragsBoy on 2:40 am on Nov. 22, 2001

If you people dont like ctf but think opf is not team based enough then make a clan

you can have ranks withen the clan have an agreement to obey higher ramking officers commands ect you will kick ass and it solves your problem of everyone running of to sniper

if all the tactical thinking people did this then the opf would extremily envolving almost like single player but better<span id='postcolor'>

blablablabla

the 24376248952894th suggestion to found a clan....

we talk about basics, not about founding a clan.

a clan would not solve basic problems by ofp especially ctf problems

please read first

Simon

[NoFragsBoy 0]

or you could stop bieng gay and take some time to think about it your self mofo fish eater

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Clapper on 11:57 pm on Nov. 21, 2001

I can solve this one:

Send 2 guys in for the flag.  1 goes for the flag the other keeps a lookout (relatively far away).  Now if the first player gets blown to smithereens by a satchel, the lookout can see if the enemy goes to plant another one.  At this time the lookout can blow the enemy to bits before they can set a satchel.

Teamwork will always win.  Ok, most of the time

<span id='postcolor'>

but what if 2 or more guys planted there satchels at the flag?

if one blows the other remains....

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Deal with it, thats WHAT TACTICS ARE ALL ABOUT, you over run the compound with your men and TAKE the Flag

in real life you think you would just SEE all the C4 Charges or boobie Traps?

I have yet to see 8 Satchels sorround a god Dam Flag

get off it

if you dont like CTF dont play it

if you cant get the flag get a new job in OFP and let a better player get it

and sugesting to just get RID of CTF is one of the stupidest statements I've heard in a LONG time!

BOOBIE Traps

DEAL With IT

[Pete 1]

Malboeuf.

tactics are for me to set up a defence and with ambushses (or otherwise) kill the enemy, to sit in a bush and watch over the flag and shoot the enemy as he tries to get it.

you have never seen 8 satchels at the flag?..are you saying it is not possible?, are you saying it would be immoral?..camping?, cheatin?..or a valid tactic.

if it is a tactic, tell me what tactic the attacker would use to get the flag?

in real life, you can disable the bombs, in real life a bomb would detonate the others, but this is not real is it?

i can gather a team of 8 guys, we plant a satchel each on the flag and take a hike, hide in the forest maybe.

what tactic would you use to get the flag?

all your 8 guys go for the flag and get killed one after the other?

1 guy goes repeatedly and the 7 remaining watch over the flag so the enemy doesnt plant new satchels?

sounds all fine, but just how realistic you think it is for the 7 who are far from there own respawn to stop a enemy of who respawn nearby?

after the 7 who watch the flag so it wont get mined again died you have 8 mines on it again, and have to repeat the process.

i want you to tell me, you who are a master of tactics apparently, which tactic would be good to get the flag and still be realistic enough to be a possible tactic.

i want ctf to be fun, half the fun is to fight your way into a town killing the defenders, if i find a satchel at the flag i will not go near it, nor will anyone else, so its going to be a deathmatch, something that is boring as its not about tactics as much as ctf.

when both teams make getting the flag impossible using satchels it aint ctf aymore, it is deathmatch.

on my server, if that tactic is used the user will get a warning and a recommendation not to use the tactic, if the satchel remains the user gets punted.

ctf is supposed to capture the flag, not deathmatch.

[Corporal Ice 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Pete on 8:41 pm on Nov. 21, 2001

Getting back to the Sachel Charges, if you say there is now whay to get past them you wrong, it's all in the tactics, you have just not tried combined force tactic in any way.

The Days of a 1 man Flag man running to grab the flag while no one is looking is OVER

ahah..but if it is a 8 on 8 game then?

and all 8 players of a team puts a satchel each on the flag and goes away?

since a satchel does NOT detonate a other satchel..even if the enemy was lucky enough to get in with a full 8 man team it would NOT be enough to get the flag.

all your team has to do is to take turns in blowing the satchel at the flag.

but if one could deactivate the satchels, or just shoot to blow them up, then we would talk about REAL tactics....i can believe you dont see the problem at hand with using satchels to guard flags.

<span id='postcolor'>

s**t!. That would be improper use of a tactic.

You don´t put 8 snipers guarding the flag. Why 8 satchells?

I also said that getting away is not Fair play. You have to stay there!.

I know almost every tactic can be called "cheating" if we miss the right point of view.

[Corporal Ice 0]

The difference between use and abuse:

Don´t try explain that something is cheating changing the situation for an abuse of the situation. Let´s see, f**king with a girlfriend is nice, but f**king with lots of girlfriends is cheating. Am I right?

So please, let´s concentrate in the right situation:

- 1 satchell

- 1 guardian.

- Activation way: U see him with your own eyes.

That´s the situation to judge. If we judge an abuse of that situation it is easy to say that is not fair.

May somebody tell my a situation that wouldn´t become cheating if we abuse of it?

[Corporal Ice 0]

Excuse me, I forgot:

I´m not trying to make a rule for this. CTF players must feel it. If we need any kind of rule to know that putting millions of satchells at the flag is not fair the problem will be with us, not the satchells.

[dazmorg 0]

I've never seen that satchel idea used, but it sounds good, I'll try it.

Alls fair game except camping at a respawn point. There is no excuse for that, it completely spoils the game.

[Corporal Ice 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from dazmorg on 12:34 am on Nov. 23, 2001

I've never seen that satchel idea used, but it sounds good, I'll try it.

Alls fair game except camping at a respawn point. There is no excuse for that, it completely spoils the game.<span id='postcolor'>

If you want to joke to the other players you can tell him (All-players Channel) something like that:

- "Do not touch the flag, it hurts.".

Then, when the players takes the flag wait until the flag is down (This makes it harder for the other player...) and activate the satchell. Then:

- " I told you".

This is the way that I use, and it´s usually funny for all the players.

[Hab 0]

Will the next person to support satchel charges near the flag please either answer Pete's mail?

A tactic with no countertactic is not playable.

And if you believe his description of the situation is extreme, you are accepting the point that such tactics used in the extreme should be frowned upon.

I believe that a satchel charge placed on a flag is to despicably take advantage of a definite shortcoming of the game. If you could blow it up with a hand grenade or something, then I would have absolutely no problem with it.

It is as valid a tactic as placing a secret trigger on a your CTF map that sets AllowDamage=0 on any unit that enters. Yeah, I know it has been removed, but I consider the two tactics equally "valid". Once is fun, base your gameplay on it, and the match is ruined, and not because you are any good.