Ww2 russian infantry

[stoppelhopser 0]

[desantnik 0]

most soldiers also wore the pilotka hats during the summer. After they were issued steel helmets they wore the pilotkas under the helmets. In the winter the red star was transferred from the pilotkas to the ushankas

Please vary the soldiers head gear. This would add a lot of realism.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Here's some color pics of those...

http://www.collectrussia.com/images/e/753.jpg

http://www.collectrussia.com/images/e/814.jpg

http://www.collectrussia.com/images/cc32/cc3258.jpg

And for winter...

http://www.collectrussia.com/images/cc53/cc5336.jpg

I hope these help.

[desantnik 0]

many Russian infantry men also had a shapeless green tunic with their bedrolls rolled up in a sausage like way and hung over one shoulder and under the other arm. These were propably the most numerous since the soldiers you have posted look like the ones at Stalingrad.

[DimaS 0]

To stoppelhopser

Pardonable... I want know: when you  intends to relized WW2 Russian infantry addon? In this month, or later???

And what about  nice Walker"s addons of russian guns? Do you want use this guns?

[stoppelhopser 0]

hey, i really appreciate the enormous feedback, tipps and support.

but those russians are in a state i wouldn´t even call beta. there is still alot of work 2 do and as i wrote on my site i won´t come out with em before february. i laready planned to include what you people suggested earlier, like different headgear, more variation in uniforms and certainly some russian weaponry to go with them.

plus i am still working on the landsers which i don´t wanna keep beta for ages.

so i guess you need to be a little more patient

[DimaS 0]

2 stoppelhopser

Excuse me for my poor english!

I think, that I'm some competent in russian uniforms history. But language border...

To my mind, you made one mistakes... The winter coat (in russian mean "shinel") must be grey. In you's skreens - soviet soldier have "khakki" long coat without shoulder-straps and  collars insignia ("petlizi").

Small ingeneer's spade must  be stationed in right side, near the flask (water-bottle). In left side must be  granatebag

Good luck to you!!!  

[stoppelhopser 0]

@DimaS:

well, don´t worry about your english...

i watched enemy at the gates and saw the russians wear khaki shinels there, and, althoug you rather wear a long coat when it´s cold i didn´t mean them to be "winter camo" units.

maybe u wanna get in touch with desantnik whom i signed as betatester for the russians and work out sort of a list of items i have to apply to the different units, like u did above, that would be great.

basically i made the shinel unit because there also was a demand for a coated unit for the landsers and i wanted to find out how it looks best and behaves correctly...

[DimaS 0]

2 stoppelhopser

I can agree with you... I saw some  infantry coats, they look as you said. They have  small tinged with "khakki".  But: basically shinel had obvious grey color. In sometimes solgiers can wear the winter coats with small "camel" shade. It is near brown, not "Khakki"...

Incidentally, CanadianTerror  put in Forum nice pictures. In one word - we can see this  link and make beatifull WW2 Russian's infantry addon.  

[CanadianTerror 0]

I find that site has the real looking "imitation" stuff so its better than black and white pics. I just tried to go through it and post what's needed.  

Do you need any pics for your German troops?

officer uniforms/badges/hats etc etc...I can do that as well(I have some other sites)

[desantnik 0]

At DimaS

I sent you a pm about the list of Russian equipment.

Are you Russian because if so I can read and translate Russian so you could send me email in Russian and I will translate and give to Stopplehopser in English. If not then do not worry about the language border but I would like for us to come up with the proper uniforms for Stopplehopser.

I just want to get these guys out in proper form!

[chaztheducky 0]

i think you should make 2 types of russian inf. a poor infintry(rifle and 2 or 3 clips and 1 gerenade) and regular(rifle, smg, pistol, etc and full ammo loadout with 2 or 3 gernades) this would be relly realistic beacuse the russians were very poorly equiped and seing a ww2 russian fully loaded in the early years of the war would relly be a rare occourance.

[CanadianTerror 0]

Some didnt even have a gun. They were issued a bayonet only and they had to get a rifle off of one of the guys laying dead on the ground.

[desantnik 0]

The thing is chaz, is that Stopplehopser was making the Russian infantry as an enemy for his main addon Landser so he probably would not spend too much time on it. Especially making different squads of Russian troops like conscripts to gaurds units. I think he just wants a generic brand of Soviet troops to use for combat against his main addon. What we need to try to do is to make he release the Russians in several uniforms with the same weapons. Like for example

Soviet summer light infantry squad would = same weapons as

Soviet winter light infantry squad.

PS some squads in 1941 were fully equiped especially Gaurds units and Siberian troops. So it was not a rare occurance to see a fully loaded Russian especially when the Russian doesnt have that much equipment.

Correct me if I am wrong anybody! I can make mistakes about this stuff too.

So in other words how can we achieve maximum variety with minimum modeling?

[desantnik 0]

Also what would be the use of Soviet conscript troops as they cant give real resistance since they cant use the bayonet. We dont need conscript units just generic units because to make them conscripts, all one would have to do is increase the riflemen and decrease the skill.

[chaztheducky 0]

i think that the russians should be on the resistance side but i also think that the russians are serious addons and conscripts would be a great thing for wave attacks on bunkers and stuff. @desatnik the point of conscripts was to be like the guys in enemy at the gates. estentuly you got there unarmed and then fought. also i was talking about a little bit after early war when russia started losing real bad

but conscripts would still be cool

[DimaS 0]

2 desantnik

Napisal predlozenia. Sozday gde nibut adress e-mail i prishli ego v privat mne. Moi teksty v formate BMP, vse smozech prochitat i perevesti to english for stoppelhopser

Davai, davai!!!

[desantnik 0]

@DimaS ya tebe otvetal po pm nu petasya ponat shto ya shivo v'Amerike e ya student tak shto ou mena frema mnoga nyet ksashileynu.  Ny seravno ya pa probyo vse tvayi messege atvat kak bistra ya s' mogu.

@ Canadian terror; what point are you referring to in the early war, Russia was losing real bad from the very beginning but things began to get better during the winter. Are you referring to the 1941-42 years?

For the troops, I think you are talking about penal battalions but normal troops would be fine for conscripts. I mean its not like they had special cloth or anything and they still were used in massive wave assaults. Which I want too  .

Moi email ya teba poslal po pm

[cam0flage 0]

I hope this addon will inspire people to create WWII Russian vehicles too! I know we have the T-34 out, but I would like to have one with similar textures as in Combat Mission 2 (especially the user made modifications, check out the thread in A&M: Completed T-34, I posted some pictures).

Keep up the good work!

[CanadianTerror 0]

@desantnik

After the first few months of the war, Russia took a bit of a beating(1 million wounded etc etc) Stalin replaced these troops with new ones, these were the poorly equipped soldiers I was talking about(poorly trained as well).

But even at Stalingrad, Russian troops went in with no guns or ammo. A lot of the tanks had no gas and were left behind. The Germans could have counter attacked with a whole army of Russian tanks if they would have had better supply lines.

IMO, if Germany had invaded during the warmer months, I think all Russians would be speaking German right now.

[desantnik 0]

right but dont forget the millions of other soldier that Russia had. Even though Russia did lose a lot of soldiers they still managed to keep most of their army intact.

IMO if the Germans had invaded sooner, there would just be more German crosses in Russia and more Russian crosses in Germany. Russia wouldnt have lost because of a couple of month. Even if we retreated all the way to the urals we still would have won because

1 Germany had no way logistically to supply its troops that far.

2. They couldnt hang 90 million German hating Russians in the areas that they did conquer

3. By the time the Germans did reach the urals or even taken Moscow, our armies would have been 5 times the size of theirs and also close to our supplies while they would have fatigued soldiers with overeached and thinly spread supplies.

Russia wouldnt have lost but would have suffered a lot more as a result of an earlier German invasion.

You must understand that with every step into Russia, Germany doomed itself to defeat. Its a historical fact.

Hitler simply couldnt sustain a war of that magnitude for that long.

Prove me wrong if you want, I would gladly like to learn more about the subject that I spent nine years studying.

By the way dont take it as a flame, I just discussing it.

[cam0flage 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IMO if the Germans had invaded sooner, there would just be more German crosses in Russia and more Russian crosses in Germany. Russia wouldnt have lost because of a couple of month. Even if we retreated all the way to the urals we still would have won because

1 Germany had no way logistically to supply its troops that far.

2. They couldnt hang 90 million German hating Russians in the areas that they did conquer

3. By the time the Germans did reach the urals or even taken Moscow, our armies would have been 5 times the size of theirs and also close to our supplies while they would have fatigued soldiers with overeached and thinly spread supplies.

<span id='postcolor'>

The objective set for German troops in the beginning was to prevent the withdrawal of Russian forces deep into Russian territories. If the Germans would have attacked in the spring instead of midsummer and Hitler hadn't constantly interfered with the OKW, situation could have been totally different. They might have taken Moscow, which was an important for its political value as the center of Soviet government, but it was also an important railroad junction.

I agree that the German treatment of Russian civilians was one of the major reasons for such a stubborn resistance - think about the situation if Germans would have taken a different approach towards the civilians. People like General Vlassov would have gotten their army of "Free Russia".

I'm not denying that the Russians had a lot of manpower to spare, but do you really think it would have been possible to reorganize the Red Army effectively after losing Moscow? I believe the morale of the Russian soldier would have been very low after such event, and the army would have suffered from mass desertions. Zhukov's winter offensive on the gates of Moscow gave the Red Army a raise of morale they needed - maybe a bit too much if you consider the Kharkov disaster following spring.

I agree that the whole idea of attacking the Soviet Union and the ideologies involving "Lebensraum" in the east were one of the most stupid ever to be invented. Luckily for future generations, Hitler just begged for a two-front war which he was doomed to lose.

[desantnik 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not denying that the Russians had a lot of manpower to spare<span id='postcolor'>

Keep in mind that the general soviet strategy of defence was delaying actions while keeping the main army intact to mass for a counterattack. While the Germans fought for one city where the were held up the Russians withdrew a lot of men from the surrounding areas to a better defensive position. The losses were ones that the Red Army could afford. I am speaking by statistics. In reality this was a horrible thing to do.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but do you really think it would have been possible to reorganize the Red Army effectively after losing Moscow? I believe the morale of the Russian soldier would have been very low after such event, and the army would have suffered from mass desertions<span id='postcolor'>

Yes  

Moscow has fallen before and to Napoleon, plus many soldiers would have fought harder imo for Moscow than they did in the defence of it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> agree that the German treatment of Russian civilians was one of the major reasons for such a stubborn resistance - think about the situation if Germans would have taken a different approach towards the civilians. People like General Vlassov would have gotten their army of "Free Russia".

<span id='postcolor'>

Very true. If only he didnt push the racial theories, the Russians themselves would have overturned Stalin.

Now back on topic (or else this will get closed down)

What kind of units would you like for the Russians like Gaurds units, members of the 62nd Army, Marine infantry? I dont think Stopplehopser will do all of this but I do think he will do one or maybe two different squads. The ones he has made were from the 62nd army at Stalingrad. So I think we need normal light summer uniforms since the majority of maps like Nogova, Everon are in the summer.

[CanadianTerror 0]

EDIT: You posted the last one while I was still typing this but I'll post this anyways. It doesnt solve anything but it had a few things that hadnt been mentioned about Russia's "loyal" german hating people.

In many parts of Russia(and around Russia) the people did not hate the Germans as you say. Stalinism was actually what the people hated(lost farms/suppressed religion/prohibition against the cossacks)

Stalin had also gotten rid of something like 40,000 officers and imprisoned/killed most of his generals so he wasnt a big hero with the red army.

If it wasnt for the SS shooting and hanging everyone and as well all the obvious mistakes that Hitler made(way too numerous to list)I seriously doubt that Russia would have driven them back.

Your 9 years of study sounds very biased btw.

[desantnik 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your 9 years of study sounds very biased btw. <span id='postcolor'>

Of course   I only had access to western sources and American schools so what I do know was from countless hours with my Father and Grandmother who were both in Soviet Army and from a collection of all the books I read. I wouldnt mind spending 50 years if I could know all there is about this subject.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In many parts of Russia(and around Russia) the people did not hate the Germans as you say. Stalinism was actually what the people hated(lost farms/suppressed religion/prohibition against the cossacks)

<span id='postcolor'>

Right but thats before the fact. When Hitler invaded Russia he always meant for it to be a war of extermination. Dont forget to mention that more than half of those that really opposed Stalinism and fought against it including in Vlasovs army were Southern Ukranians. These were not Russians and Russia and Ukraine have had differences. For example we call them Kahkli and they make fun of us. It still goes on today. But the thing is even if Hitler did invade Russia earlier, he would have treated the population no different since when he did on the 22nd of June.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If it wasnt for the SS shooting and hanging everyone and as well all the obvious mistakes that Hitler made(way too numerous to list)I seriously doubt that Russia would have driven them back.<span id='postcolor'>

agreed I never said otherwise.