Large walkable wall sections to snap together?

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

I'm planning on creating a long and tall wall "barrier" for my map that will extend around a perimeter about 20 kms.

It's basically going to be like a 5 meter thick, 25 meter high wall, made up of sections I'll model, each being about 10 meters wide.

(This is for a sort of hastily constructed "containment" attempt built around the Zone after it went to shit.)

I plan to make about 5 different standard wall sections, 2 for each "end" and a few variations like "T" junctions etc...

Before I start to actually model this, I just wanted to ask the experienced here about the best way to go about modelling this collection of parts.

Please bear in mind that the player/units will be able to walk along the length of the top where I've marked and there will be ladders and stairwells at various points along the wall.

Could this be a problem? I'm thinking in terms of unit walking from one "Roadway LOD" to another etc...

Would it be to make each part like the diagram linked, were you can see the "end parts" have a solid edge to them, the "in-between standard" parts do not have polys either side as these wouldn't be visible anyway, and for variations I can model things like doorways/ladders etc through and into each part:

http://www.meshcarver.com/screenshots/WALL_PARTS.png

I really hope this diagram explains what I mean better than I can explain it lol..! ;0

Also, if this is a good way to go about it, then I'm concerned about accurately snapping each piece together when I place them into my island. I believe the way around this is "memory points" yes?

If so, then are memory points an easy addition once it's all modelled? I mean, there's NOTHING I have to bear in mind whilst modelling it other than making sure they fit together like a jigsaw in my 3D app?

I know also to make 50 meter long sections to save on "section" count, rather than building it 10 meter piece by 10 meter piece- is this good?

Alright, a lot there guys, sorry, but I'd LOVE to hear some solid advice about this please!

Cheers,

Marc

[charon productions 10]

Hi guys,

I'm planning on creating a long and tall wall "barrier" for my map that will extend around a perimeter about 20 kms.

It's basically going to be like a 5 meter thick, 25 meter high wall, made up of sections I'll model, each being about 10 meters wide.

(This is for a sort of hastily constructed "containment" attempt built around the Zone after it went to shit.)

I plan to make about 5 different standard wall sections, 2 for each "end" and a few variations like "T" junctions etc...

Before I start to actually model this, I just wanted to ask the experienced here about the best way to go about modelling this collection of parts.

Please bear in mind that the player/units will be able to walk along the length of the top where I've marked and there will be ladders and stairwells at various points along the wall.

Could this be a problem? I'm thinking in terms of unit walking from one "Roadway LOD" to another etc...

Would it be to make each part like the diagram linked, were you can see the "end parts" have a solid edge to them, the "in-between standard" parts do not have polys either side as these wouldn't be visible anyway, and for variations I can model things like doorways/ladders etc through and into each part:

http://www.meshcarver.com/screenshots/WALL_PARTS.png

I really hope this diagram explains what I mean better than I can explain it lol..! ;0

Also, if this is a good way to go about it, then I'm concerned about accurately snapping each piece together when I place them into my island. I believe the way around this is "memory points" yes?

If so, then are memory points an easy addition once it's all modelled? I mean, there's NOTHING I have to bear in mind whilst modelling it other than making sure they fit together like a jigsaw in my 3D app?

I know also to make 50 meter long sections to save on "section" count, rather than building it 10 meter piece by 10 meter piece- is this good?

Alright, a lot there guys, sorry, but I'd LOVE to hear some solid advice about this please!

Cheers,

Marc

You should also consider terrain slope, some parts will stand stray into the air on a non-flat surface.

So you might also need shorter parts, that's at least what i did to get around this somehow and still not very satisfying.

I am close to prognosing that its nearly impossible to ensure walkability along the entire structure (20km) except your island terrain is completely flat, because some parts won't simply line up.

Placing them accurately is another tedious story.

[meshcarver 12]

Hi CP,

Thanks for your feedback!

With terrain slope, I'm hoping to counter that by smoothing out the terrain once I've placed the wall objects- this is possible right?

Even if the terrain undulates between 1-3 meters along say a 100 meter stretch of ground, surely it's easily possible when placing the wall objects to all be at a certain elevation- thereby ensuring accurate height placement for walking..?

In effect, "pushing" them into the ground a few meters so long as the vertical aspects of the wall match up?

[charon productions 10]

Hi CP,

Thanks for your feedback!

With terrain slope, I'm hoping to counter that by smoothing out the terrain once I've placed the wall objects- this is possible right?

Even if the terrain undulates between 1-3 meters along say a 100 meter stretch of ground, surely it's easily possible when placing the wall objects to all be at a certain elevation- thereby ensuring accurate height placement for walking..?

In effect, "pushing" them into the ground a few meters so long as the vertical aspects of the wall match up?

If that is your own island addon thus allowing full control of the terrain, i would first flatten the terrain, then put the wall pieces. Otherwise you would have to reposition them again.

[luki 53]

Its the same with harbour pier and castle walls in a2 or the podestas on sahrani in a1, they work. If they will work for ai is another story.

For work/build wise you can use snappoints. Align the height withing visitor will not be a problem.

I recommend you do some few parts with possible high changes like a stair or a small slope, broken ones with debrys to walk up or down to give it a not to clean look.

Would also be intresting to have some interior parts in the wall with a sort of small tunnels

Greets

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

Thank you both for your advice..!

Yes, I'll absolutely pre-plan the islands layout then, to minimise hassle and will place down the huge wall beforehand- good advice, thank you.

As far as Ai goes, to a large extent, it's out of my hands. For what I'm planning I really don't see the AI being able to fluidly walk from wall section to wall section, although they MAY handle one section well..? We'll see...

Yes, I'm planning a fair few variation pieces, some thicker than others and even "catchment" areas built into the wall, as well as things like stairways, gantry, corridors etc.

It'll all add to the variety.

But to clarify- if I place a section of wall down with its base at 5 meters and the terrain at 5 meters it will be flush to the ground.

But, if I move the terrain around it up by 2 meters say, then I'll lose 2 meters off the visible bottom of the wall yes-it'll retain it's "own" elevation, regardless of the terrain around it?

[luki 53]

But to clarify- if I place a section of wall down with its base at 5 meters and the terrain at 5 meters it will be flush to the ground.

But, if I move the terrain around it up by 2 meters say, then I'll lose 2 meters off the visible bottom of the wall yes-it'll retain it's "own" elevation, regardless of the terrain around it?

As long as you dont change the terrain in verts where the section actually sits on, the object will remain. Otherwise you have to manualy reset the height.

...

[abs 2]

Isn't there a fence property that will allow the p3d to follow the terrain slope?

Abs

[ProfTournesol 956]

Isn't there a fence property that will allow the p3d to follow the terrain slope?

Abs

Yes, you can choose the vertex property "keep height" (not always great results), or the geo lod properties : https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Oxygen_2_-_Manual#Geometry_.28model.29_named_property

[meshcarver 12]

Thanks guys, but in this particular case, I will be building an angled section to go up inclines etc.

Otherwise, if one section is higher than the one next to it, the walkway will be at different heights.

[abs 2]

Thanks guys, but in this particular case, I will be building an angled section to go up inclines etc.

Otherwise, if one section is higher than the one next to it, the walkway will be at different heights.

Exactly this, mate. Read the link that ProfTournesol poster...specifically:

slope // the model is SKEWed according to the terrain shape, vertical lines remain vertical. Better than vertex property “Keep height “ in many cases

Abs

[BadHabitz 235]

Can't you make the wall sections taller and have them clip the ground so it looks like it's actually coming out of the ground?

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

Aye, I've read it before, but it won't really suffice for me because there will be lots of little details like stairs, ladders, decals, piping etc that would also skew on the horizontal and so would look deformed...

I do plan on having about 2:5 meters built of "coming out the ground" kind of look yes, so it should work out ok.

Thanks for your input again lads..! :D

[bushlurker 46]

I had to explain this whole "on surface" etc properties thing, in painful detail, with pictures, to one of my fairly beginner-level VBS customers recently - so I just happen to have a couple of screenshots handy...

(You can safely ignore the fact that these are actually VBS screenies - it's actually a crazy mishmash of "Arma 1" models, on my "Arma 2" Carraigdubh terrain, in the "old" - to all intents and purposes "Arma 1-era VBS")... :confused:

As far as these model properties are concerned, I'm pretty sure there's no difference between then and now, or between "old vbs" and "current Arma"...

A pretty extreme slope there, just for illustration purposes... but you can see that verticals are preserved, though as you rightly note, the "skewing" might play havoc with detailed horizontal features...

If your slopes aren't so extreme, you might just get away with it... I guess the only way to know is to try...

B

Edited November 3, 2013 by Bushlurker

[meshcarver 12]

Hi Bushlurker,

thanks for taking the time out to post here mate.

Aye, I can see that being very useful in certain situation and I might make a few fences myself specifically to take advantage of it, but in this case it's not going to cut the mustard..!

I posted a link to a screenshot of the wall sections I'm planning on making, and if you can also imagine all those little details getting skewed too- it just won't look good...

Either way, I think I'll just try to build the wall on more or less even terrain and then I can tweak it after like bringing some terrain verts up and down to make it look like it's sitting more comfortably in the ground for immersion.

Cheers again guys.

[Hatchet_AS 201]

Please bear in mind that the player/units will be able to walk along the length of the top where I've marked and there will be ladders and stairwells at various points along the wall.

Could this be a problem? I'm thinking in terms of unit walking from one "Roadway LOD" to another etc...

Just thought I'd add some info based on my experiences with lots of proxies/walkable surfaces and things related to player/ai movement being tested currently. Firstly, things are for sure better in general with these things in A3 vs. A2, although getting everything right in the 'building' models is an art itself. Many things need to be done properly is a more accurate way of saying that.

When it comes to proxies (needed for objects larger than 50m (safe number)), while players will generally do pretty well with things, the AI can be interesting. Most notably when pathing between proxies. This can be hit or miss currently, again though much better than before. Sometimes they just don't sort it out. Limiting the number of linked (proxies) surfaces/pathways, and having regular entrance/exit points out of the pathing nets seems to help. Not sure that the AI will walk across non proxied objects. That was historically always fail for me. Granted players are more capable in this regard. Although they don't cross gaps in roadway lods well at all. ;)

When I think about adding the additional challenge of objects over terrain and the relative alignment issues ... my initial thought is to run away. But now that I think about it, if you're planning to proxy large sections together (hundreds of meters at a time at least (i know 300m can work)), the terrain below the proxied parts is fairly irrelevant. The position of the main model, and the piece of terrain it sits on it what's important. So in theory, you should really only have to worry about 'those' pieces of terrain that the main objects sit on. Everything in between could be whatever makes one happy.

Never tried hooking up anything bigger than the VLCC I'm working on. Curious if anything breaks at some particular point in hooking things together. Best of luck with things, seems like a great project! :)