American blacks seek money and land

[KingBeast 0]

What happens when we have real lunatics in the monarchy? (not that we dont already)

[advocatexxx 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,14:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe what we did to the Indians is a bad thing, again its up for debate, butI guess thats how the world works. <span id='postcolor'>

I wouldn't say that America or USA as it is known and all land within its borders were owned by Indians. Just because an individual occupies some pre-defined ground does not give him the full ownership of it.

We were all born on this planet and as such cannot claim any part of it as ours unless we have its boundaries clearly marked, that those boundaries be recognized by all others, and that a sufficient force is kept together to defend that piece of land against invaders.

This goes for the Moon as well. You see plenty of companies selling real estate space on the Moon, and the funny thing is, people actually buy it.

Indians did not populate this land in numbers vast enough to need it. They also did not posess the technological abilities for them to protect this land.

It comes down a simple doctrine of the nature - the strong will prevail.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Aug. 18 2002,21:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What happens when we have real lunatics in the monarchy?    (not that we dont already)<span id='postcolor'>

There is not much chance of that...but as you pose the question: Magna Carta gave power to the Barons, this is now manefested in the House of Lords and Commons. The monarchy does have limitations, it can't run the country, only give of withhold approval to Parliment.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Aug. 18 2002,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Indians did not populate this land in numbers vast enough to need it.  They also did not posess the technological abilities for them to protect this land.

It comes down a simple doctrine of the nature - the strong will prevail.<span id='postcolor'>

So youre saying just because someone is strong, they have the right to take anything they want regardless of who they're killing?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Aug. 18 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This goes for the Moon as well.  You see plenty of companies selling real estate space on the Moon, and the funny thing is, people actually buy it.<span id='postcolor'>

The moon like all territory not on earth, is international and can not be owned.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 18 2002,21:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ Aug. 18 2002,12:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Indians did not populate this land in numbers vast enough to need it.  They also did not posess the technological abilities for them to protect this land.

It comes down a simple doctrine of the nature - the strong will prevail.<span id='postcolor'>

So youre saying just because someone is strong, they have the right to take anything they want regardless of who they're killing?<span id='postcolor'>

That is pretty much a fundamental of nature Aculaud. Shitty, isnt it?

The thing is, we can decide not to do such things in the future. That is the mark of intelligence and civilisation. But as refined as we become, were about three good meals from barbarism.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

The Indians fought eachother, we came in and fought too, and we won. Many countries have done it may not be right, but thats the way it is.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,22:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Indians fought eachother, we came in and fought too, and we won. Many countries have done it may not be right, but thats the way it is.<span id='postcolor'>

They did not exterminate each other and their entire way of life.

[Paratrooper 0]

Infact DoR, I would rather you said that it was in some way right than admit that it was wrong but you do it anyway.

[GreyKnight 0]

At the end of the day we all have to accept some undeniable facts:

- The human race is not civilized - it is still a race of animals struggling to overcome the incredible power of the natural animal need to survive and prosper.

- Our entire world has become corrupt and depraved due to the existence of money. Even those of religious beliefs are not immune to its influence. Everything, absolutely EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world is wrong because of money.

- Finally, as long as there is religion there will be war and suffering. The only people who are truly civilized are those who do not believe in gods and other deities. They are also the most liberated people on the planet, they are not directed to do things by some stupid book and they are not driven to acts of extreme insanity in the belief that some great reward awaits them in the afterlife. They can still have morals and laws (these are just common sense anyway) and they have no reason to hate one another like religious factions do.

That's what I reckon anyway...

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GreyKnight @ Aug. 18 2002,14:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">- Finally, as long as there is religion there will be war and suffering.  The only people who are truly civilized are those who do not believe in gods and other deities.  They are also the most liberated people on the planet, they are not directed to do things by some stupid book and they are not driven to acts of extreme insanity in the belief that some great reward awaits them in the afterlife.  They can still have morals and laws (these are just common sense anyway) and they have no reason to hate one another like religious factions do.

That's what I reckon anyway... <span id='postcolor'>

GreyKnight, you have read my mind

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GreyKnight @ Aug. 18 2002,23:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Finally, as long as there is religion there will be war and suffering.  <span id='postcolor'>

I am sick of hearing this. You may have heard this and thought because it is often voiced that it must be true.

Every single real religion I can think of is peaceful, and every religious person I know is peaceful. Religion is an antedote to war. Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.

As for the human race not being civillised; civilisation is the one thing that keeps us from living like animals. Law brings order, and order brings peace.

[GreyKnight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (GreyKnight @ Aug. 18 2002,23:24)

Finally, as long as there is religion there will be war and suffering.

I am sick of hearing this. You may have heard this and thought because it is often voiced that it must be true.

Every single real religion I can think of is peaceful, and every religious person I know is peaceful. Religion is an antedote to war. Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.

As for the human race not being civillised; civilisation is the one thing that keeps us from living like animals. Law brings order, and order brings peace.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually I have never heard or seen this written anywhere before, I came to this conclusion by myself when I examined all the facts of life and realised that everybody thought their religion was better than everybody else's. I mean for heavens sake - there are parts in the Bible where God tells his people to go and attack another society and take its land! Religion is peaceful my bum!

Oh, and law brings resistance and rebellion from those who do not agree with it - and a lot of laws are based on religios do's and don't's. Surely you have heard people say that the law is on the side of the criminal - it's true! Look around you - you see examples of it everywhere...

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,14:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.<span id='postcolor'>

Right. Taking HIS message of peace to all those nations that already have their own message of peace. What does that say to those nations? That our message of peace is better than theirs? This is how wars start.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

There will never be complete peace in the world we live in, so we have to deal with what goes on.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 18 2002,23:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,14:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.<span id='postcolor'>

Right. Taking HIS message of peace to all those nations that already have their own message of peace. What does that say to those nations? That our message of peace is better than theirs? This is how wars start.<span id='postcolor'>

Not his, the christian peace, Pax Christi. They all agree with him too!

People talk about wars being started over religion, go on name one! The crusades was over territory by the way.

Your ideas on religion come from a fundemental ignorence of it.

Best keep off the religion though. It gets things locked.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 18 2002,14:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There will never be complete peace in the world we live in, so we have to deal with what goes on.<span id='postcolor'>

The only reason for this is people being so self-righteous. If everyone just stepped back and realized that no one person is better than the next just because of what they believe, this world would be a better place.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,23:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am sick of hearing this. You may have heard this and thought because it is often voiced that it must be true.

Every single real religion I can think of is peaceful, and every religious person I know is peaceful. Religion is an antedote to war. Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.

As for the human race not being civillised; civilisation is the one thing that keeps us from living like animals. Law brings order, and order brings peace.<span id='postcolor'>

Wow.

So ethnic cleansing, which is generally based on religion, didnt happen in the balkans? The pope didnt turn a blind eye to the persecution and extermination of Jews in Germany, ad naseum back into time? the Jews and the Muslims arent at each others throats in the Middle East?

Religion has nothing to do with peace. Religion has to do with a narrow view of the world as enforced by a 2000 year old collection of fables and mythology. Calling Christianity peacefully is sort of like gilding a sword and calling it a work of art, not a weapon. More blood has been spilled through history in the name of religion than in any other cause.

Individuals who believe a certain way can and are peaceful. But that has less to do with the group mentality and more to do with the person. If I am generally inclined to be caring and forgiving, that is how I will be, regardless of what my god is named.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Aug. 18 2002,23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,23:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am sick of hearing this. You may have heard this and thought because it is often voiced that it must be true.

Every single real religion I can think of is peaceful, and every religious person I know is peaceful. Religion is an antedote to war. Just look at the pope taking his message of peace to all those different nations.

As for the human race not being civillised; civilisation is the one thing that keeps us from living like animals. Law brings order, and order brings peace.<span id='postcolor'>

Wow.

So ethnic cleansing, which is generally based on religion, didnt happen in the balkans?  The pope didnt turn a blind eye to the persecution and extermination of Jews in Germany, ad naseum back into time?  the Jews and the Muslims arent at each others throats in the Middle East?

Religion has nothing to do with peace.  Religion has to do with a narrow view of the world as enforced by a 2000 year old collection of fables and mythology.  Calling Christianity peacefully is sort of like gilding a sword and calling it a work of art, not a weapon.  More blood has been spilled through history in the name of religion than in any other cause.<span id='postcolor'>

All the 'Religious conflics' you just mentioned were ethnic or territorial.

Just because there have been bad things done by so-called christians does not condemn the teachings of christ. Read the New Testament! Show me the violence it creates!

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People talk about wars being started over religion, go on name one!<span id='postcolor'>

...............AFGHANISTAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Pheh! Look at those infidels! Lets fly Airplanes into one of their national monuments and kill thousands of people for their not believing in Allah!"

Dont get me wrong, i dont condone our presence in Afghanistan the way it is. Personally, i think our whole force in that area has its head up its ass. I hear about all these people who've "Sighted" Bin Landen, and not one of them had a gun!? Come On!!! Whole other discussion though.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow.

So ethnic cleansing, which is generally based on religion, didnt happen in the balkans?  The pope didnt turn a blind eye to the persecution and extermination of Jews in Germany, ad naseum back into time?  the Jews and the Muslims arent at each others throats in the Middle East?

Religion has nothing to do with peace.  Religion has to do with a narrow view of the world as enforced by a 2000 year old collection of fables and mythology.  Calling Christianity peacefully is sort of like gilding a sword and calling it a work of art, not a weapon.  More blood has been spilled through history in the name of religion than in any other cause.<span id='postcolor'>

Religion has something to do with peace! Just because you say you do something in the name of religion does not mean you are doing it for that reason. How can you say Christianity is not peaceful? Have you experienced it? Christ is about peace for our lives, and do not get on me for doing this I was mearly responding.

   </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only reason for this is people being so self-righteous. If everyone just stepped back and realized that no one person is better than the next just because of what they believe, this world would be a better place.<span id='postcolor'>

That won't ever happen, I am sorry to say.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At the end of the day we all have to accept some undeniable facts:

- The human race is not civilized - it is still a race of animals struggling to overcome the incredible power of the natural animal need to survive and prosper.

- Our entire world has become corrupt and depraved due to the existence of money.  Even those of religious beliefs are not immune to its influence.  Everything, absolutely EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world is wrong because of money.

- Finally, as long as there is religion there will be war and suffering.  The only people who are truly civilized are those who do not believe in gods and other deities.  They are also the most liberated people on the planet, they are not directed to do things by some stupid book and they are not driven to acts of extreme insanity in the belief that some great reward awaits them in the afterlife.  They can still have morals and laws (these are just common sense anyway) and they have no reason to hate one another like religious factions do.

That's what I reckon anyway... <span id='postcolor'>

Believing in God is the only true way to obtain peace, with out Him the world will never be peaceful.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

Why does my post have black around it?

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 19 2002,00:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,14:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People talk about wars being started over religion, go on name one!<span id='postcolor'>

...............AFGHANISTAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Pheh! Look at those infidels! Lets fly Airplanes into one of their national monuments and kill thousands of people for their not believing in Allah!"

Dont get me wrong, i dont condone our presence in Afghanistan the way it is. Personally, i think our whole force in that area has its head up its ass. I hear about all these people who've "Sighted" Bin Landen, and not one of them had a gun!? Come On!!! Whole other discussion though.<span id='postcolor'>

That was not because they were "infidels" but because they commited crimes against muslims, or so they see it. Besides, they may claim to practice the Islamic faith, but they do not truly follow it's teaching!

Besides, one religion does not condemn them all.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,150)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just because there have been bad things done by so-called christians does not condemn the teachings of christ. Read the New Testament! Show me the violence it creates!<span id='postcolor'>

Thats what i'm sick of hearing about, right there. So, what? We're just going to erase the old testimate with the new and forget it ever happened? They're both part of the SAME god damn faith! Its not going to change anything by simply re-writing your dogma.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 18 2002,15::0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That was not because they were "infidels" but because they commited crimes against muslims, or so they see it. Besides, they may claim to practice the Islamic faith, but they do not truly follow it's teaching!

Besides, one religion does not condemn them all.<span id='postcolor'>

There is no true teaching anymore. Its been re-written so many times its amazing anyone even remembers that there was a true teaching in the first place.

[Warin 0]

I was about to write a long diatribe here..but instead I have decided to just say this:

Any religion with more than two members is pretty much doomed to become something other than what may be intended. Faith and belief are not inherently wrong... but once it becomes an organisation, it moves away from what may have been intended into a realm of power and intrigue.