beastcat

Cameras are not everywhere all the time and it takes time for people to react to whats happening. The videos we have are after the plane has been shot down, because people had time to react and it is much more noticable. John Kerry said that they have pictures of the launch and that information about the trajectory of the shot is available. If the US actually has something this time, that should answer your question. Kerry also appears to be discontent, because many of the separatists are heavily drunk, but to be honest, I don't blame them. No ordinary man can handle such a morbid sight on a sober mind.

lol, are you serious?

Yeah, because it totally makes sense for the government to fire arty at its own oil station, that the government will have to pay for repairs and infrastructural damage, in an area which is already under their control.

The terrorists blew up an oil pumping station: http://youtu.be/s2sU8gmn-wg

-Because if the Ukrainian Buks do exist and are not another russian lie, they still are 110km away from where the plane was shot down. -Because rebel Buks have been spotted in Snischne earlier, which is very close to where the plane was shot down -Because they are trained to use their equipment and are not giving equipment that they can't handle, unlike the separatists, who are pelted with high tech and highly dangerous equipment (Well, as high tech as <1992 can go). Also the plane that was shot down last time, was shot down under completely different circumstances and is not comparable -Basically the point above, plus the separatists have no planes, therefore the Ukrainians don't try shooting any down. Additionally the Ukrainian government has the necessary coding in order to identify friend from foe. -They have shot down SU-25 on many occassions and they do basically have infinite ammo, as long as they control parts of the border -Again, point above, they have all weapons they wan't, except for weapons manufactured and designed after 1992. Additionally to that you can be as trained as you want, but "a big plane" can be an AN-26 (Which they though they shot down) or a Boing 777, no matter how trained you are. And again, the nearest Front is 70km away, the place where russia suggested there was AA is 110km away. Now, why do YOU ignore all the facts we have told you and ignore all the times where I addressed you on behalf of them? Also you always write "Oh, Putin said this, the rebels said that..." Yeah, very interesting what they say, the problem is they always do the complete opposite. Oh and now they suddenly do have a Buk all of the sudden? First they had one and were really proud, then it suddenly turned out they never had it and don't have anything comparable even in the slightest, then it was the Ukrainians who had the Buks right next to the border, deep into separatist territory, then there were no Buks but a ukrainian S-200 all of the sudden and then the rebels suddenly did have a Buk after all, which they couldn't smuggle out anymore? How can you still take a country like that seriously?

Because the separatists are stealing everything of value and are trying to remove everything that can act as evidence against them. Additionally they need time to move all their Buks and evidence back to russia (Of which we have videos in this thread already).

Oh, please, don't come here with your accusations of "opressing the journalists". May I remind you that russia is on place 148 of 180 on the index of press freedom? That means it is as close to north korea as to Venezuela. And I won't even start with the incredible amount of retarded lies the russian propaganda machine produced...

Again, if you want to question the credibility of stopfake, point us to the places where it is wrong. Who sponsors it or what they write about doesn't matter, because the facts are facts and they have a good history where they always turn out to be right (Or at least I haven't seen otherwise). We have disprooven your "sources" and conspiracy theories so many times now. Why can't you do it if we can do it so easily with your super trustworthy and reliable sources? Sorry to all russians here (Im "ethnic russian" myself, so I'm allowed to do that), this joke is a little bit macabre, but: Russian Shashlik: http://youtu.be/t3mWhTYKTOg "Photos out of east Ukraine show men, who carry a blackbox out of a field. Concerns arise, that the separatists may destroy evidence from the MH-17 disaster" - welt.de According to welt.de, Sergej Kawtaradse said, that the bodies of the victims are stored in refrigerator freight wagons at the local train station. According to the Ukrainian government, two of the crewman of the Buk have been captured, trying to cross the border.

That still doesn't change anything. Facts are facts, no matter if you like it or not. It can be sponsored by the chupakabra space jews and it still won't change anything. Edit: Also by your logic we can dismiss everything you post, because your sources are from russia, but unlike you, we actually look at your russian conspiracy theories, analyse and expose them, explaining why they are total bullshit.

So what? That doesn't change anything about its validity. ---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 ---------- The terrorists are trying to capture and hide the black boxes. A ukrainian tv show (In russian) about the plane:

For christs sake, what is it with you russians? Astral4eg, all of the points and conspiracies you just said have been debunked and explained in this thread earlier, go back a few pages and stop talking crap. And if you are to lazy too do that, take a read: http://www.stopfake.org/tragediya-malazijskogo-avialajnera-analiz-gipotez/ http://www.stopfake.org/lozh-ukraina-sbila-grazhdanskij-boing-malaysia-airlines/ http://www.stopfake.org/lozh-ispanskij-dispetcher-rabotayushhij-v-kieve-soobshhil-o-prichastnosti-ukrainskih-samoletov-k-padeniyu-boinga/

To the guy who says it should be mostly vertical: I only know what shooting a pistol is like, but when I try to hold it steady, it shakes horizontally more than it does vertically.

According to , the ukrainian SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) has evidence that the Buk missiles were supplied by russia and that the terrorists have gotten order to move them back to russia after the plane has been shot down.Update: This Buk has been filmed in the Belgorod Oblast in russia, coming from the Ukrainian border: http://youtu.be/apMCDCYc3hk ---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ---------- According to welt.de the banks have closed the accounts of the victims, because the separatists have stolen the credit cards, documents and money of the crash victims from the crash site. Also interesting is, that russia has banned a few US military officials from entry to russia, which is funny, because noone wants to go there anyway.

According to this the terrorists have transported at least 3 Buks back to Russia after they have shot down the plane.

Its most likely just all of the points discussed here, just with more background checking, like tracking down and checking the sources for example. I also love how Spooky Lynx completely ignored my post where I explained why he is full of BS. Yet he still ignores all the facts, while trying to convince everybody that everything is some kind of evil conspiracy by the whole world against russia. He is the perfect model of a PutinTV viewer.

I'm sorry, but are you by any chance retarded? First of all, Ukraine has been intercepting phone calls from the beginning of the conflict and they all turned out to be true, second of all, even if what you say is true and not another russian lie, Slowyansk is still 120km away from the place where the plane was shot down. The Buk has a range of maximum 35km, the nearest front is about 70km away. Also, russian news and the rebels proudly announced that they have shot down a plane, thinking it was an AN-26 and immidietly started trying to delete all evidence after they found it was a Boing 777. Also your separatist friends refuse to give acces to the crash site for the OSCE monitors, all while stealing every valuable they can find. Are they maybe hiding something? Shouldn't that ring all of your conspiracy junky alarm bells? But no, all of that must be fake, Channel One told me the Ukrainians tried to kill Putin, that must be it. Oh and don't drag me into your stupid conspiracy theories.

What is wrong with you? All of the evidence points to the separatists, yet you refuse to accept it and resort to unqualified speculation. The plane was shot down during military exercises, the pilot mistook it for a training target. The plane right now was shot down deep into separatist territory next to the russian border, the separatists and russian news reported that a plane was shot down, but when it turned out they shot a boing suddenly they didn't have the weapons anymore and a huge campaign of deleting previous posts started. But noooo, it must have been the Ukrainians, because they are evil nazi fashist jews!

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17: Why planes fly over war zones

Isn't trolling/flamebaiting against the rules? I think you crossed the line between tinfoil hat and *dont want to break the rules* a long time ago.

You have to counteract the sway like you counteract the weight of the weapon in real life and you get pretty much the same result.

It was actually a Mossad F-35 shooting a heat-seeking laser gatling gun with a tactical 200 round ammo clip. ---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ---------- Looks like the separatists still refuse to give access to the whole crash site. This sums up the whole situation with the plane and how russia is lying and trying to damage control pretty well (But its in russian).

But the flying saucer that shot down the guys who shot down the SU-25 that shot down the Boing didn't last long, because the jews quickly jumped in and shot it down in order to cover up the fact that 911 was an inside job. (Every conspiracy needs jews and 911)

It would be funny, if it wasn't so sad...

The official russian theory (Or at leat the one they told on russian news) is that the Boing 777 was flying to high for the separatists to shoot down. The russians say the ukrainian army shot down the plane with an SU-25, which the separatists then shot down after it shot down the Boing 777.

Shaun Walker writes: "OSCE denied access by armed separatists; say bodies are starting to bloat and decay, expert team needed fast"