beastcat

Well, thats not just the US posture, we have enough evidence that suggest that all of that is indeed true to call it facts. The only country that doesn't acknowledge it is Russia, which is not really suprising.

You appear to have got something wrong. Grad rockets and artillery are being shot from russia, not Buk missiles. The Buk was fired from Torez/Snizhne.

I still can't loose the impression that you are a troll... http://youtu.be/X5vr1M2gAzY They need to fill these with lava and lava resistant alligators with mines on their heads...

Russia Today is not a serious news source, no matter how hard they try to convince people this is all some kind of evil conspiracy by the US. I know Russian, Ukrainian, English, German and a bit of French if I try hard enough. I have seen all kinds of media and what I have discovered, is that it takes a really special kind of person to believe the crap russian propaganda produces. You always say that noone is critical, but if you take a look at this thread, you will discovered that people have come here with all kinds of russian media and russian conspiracy crap and it has always been debunked. You can't just take "the golden middle", when one side is constantly spewing out bullshit conspiracy theories that can be debunked by an eight year old, who knows how to look up things on wikipedia.

Oh boy, here we go again. Why do people always have to bring up the US? It has nothing to do with this and to be honest, im tired of talking about the US, maybe someone else will answer for you. About how to fuck up with a Buk: That has been discussed to death in this forum already. Yes, you can fuck up. But it is only possible for the separatists to fuck up, because they only have the radar that is built into the Buk, they don't have the data needed to identify modern civilian airplanes. The signature they get on their radar is the same as with an A-26, basically just "big plane". They thought that they shot down an AN-26 at first, as is evidenced by numerous social media posts, tapped phone calls, contradictionary conspiracy theories and stories by the separatists, interviews and so on. On their end it looked like an AN-26, which they had shot down before already. Why is this so hard to understand?

If you mean satellite photos, they need time to be sorted out, examined and so on. The dude from this blog got everything really quickly. If you mean photos of the Buk, they have been around even before the plane was shot down. If you mean photos of the launch, not everyone uploads a photo immidietly. Besides, not everybody has 24/7 internet access. Is it really so hard to understand that not every action has some mastermind behind it? The sun doesnt go down because the illuminati don't want you to see them dancing around at night. Gravity is not because the space jews don't want you to discover their secret base in the sky and are therefore trying to keep you on the ground. It was an accident. They did not intend to shoot down the plane. Russia has no reason for shooting down the plane, because it simply fucked up.

What the hell are you arguing about? We already have proof that it was indeed a Buk in the form of shrapnel, debris, the wreckage and satellite images.

More satellite images, further proving, that Russia is supplying the terrorists with huge amounts of russian btrs and tanks and firing artillery from Russia. "Ukrainian Positions Are Bombed From Russia" http://youtu.be/2u6VlkNIaAQ "What was left by the 'LNR' battalion 'Prizrak'" They left an incredible amount of medical and food supplies from russia, which will come in handy a lot. Finally the army will be able to eat until they are full. But what is probably more important: They left a lot of important documents.

"July 29, 2014 terrorists from the "DNR" near Torez shot at a column of civilian cars, that were carrying children. The shooting left 10 children injured and one dead."

There is a big difference between defense systems and invasion forces.

The whole reason for this war is russia trying to take away parts of a country, that is not a puppet government anymore. If you look at every serious survey, you will see, that only a tiny fraction supports the separatists, which is also the reason why the majority of separatists are russian citizens. If it was about greater rights and autonomy, the people would have used the democratic way. This is Georgia all over again, just worse.

Wait, you guys are still arguing about who shot down the plane? Aren't you tired? I mean we have all this evidence, there is only so much arguing you can do...

I was gone for two days, what did I miss? Here's what you guys may have missed: We have almost completely surrounded Lugansk and since the separatists are not letting anyone on the crash site, the government has decided to try and push trough to the crash site, before they can destroy everything. It is going more or less successfully, with the army having pushed pretty far from the north and south, meaning they are not that far from the crash site anymore and that the supply line from Russia to Donetsk will soon be cut off. The army is also putting arty in place, that will be able to fire onto the main supply line, slowing down transport of soldiers, tanks, btrs, ammunition and so on from russia, after they have pushed back the separatists from an elevated position. It is not so good looking at the border however, because the russian army is constantly bombarding the Ukrainian army with 2S19 Mstas and BM-27 Uragans and the Ukrainians can't respond. This also makes it really hard to transport supplies and ammo to the soldiers at the border. The poor guys are basically a shooting gallery for russian artillery. But at least the weather is nice...

There is a huge number of russian mercenaries. People who fought in Transnistria, Chechnya, Georgia, you name it. Their work is war. Its all they know, its all they can do, its their life. And knowing the crimes the russian army has commited, one can only imagine what kind of people they are.

Somebody else posted this blog some time ago, sorry, I can't remember who it was, great find, please report in. There is a really great analysis which pinpoints the exact location where the rocket was fired from with pictures of the launch site and the exact way the buk came into Ukraine from Russia with pictures and proof and everything you might ask for.

And you know that from where? Russian media? Please, tell me what evil crimes his army of nazis has commited. And posing for some "cool" pictures where they can pretend to be all hardcore and manly doesn't count. Ukrainians are digging out trenches at the border to Russia, now even more with the shot down UAV in Kharkov. The video also features a silly russian border guard who pretends to be talking on the phone while filming, a reporter that handles a microphone horribly and a strange old guy. Also heres a new really badass looking car that the national guard/army will be using, the KrAZ Spartan: And his "little" brother, the Cougar:

Those are some really hot nazi women, where can I get one?

I'm not quite sure if you are trolling, due to the way you write in the first part, but to answer the second part: I can't complain. Sure, I'm no Yanukovich with hundreds of billions of dollars with a gigantic Villa where everything is made out of gold (yet), but I have enough to do whatever I want and I don't give a crap about speeding tickets. lol

You do realize that Yanukovich was not the only president? Of course everyone pursues their own goals, but that sum is really not that much anyway. Thats a BTR-4 btw, they are Ukrainian and made in Kharkov. (Someone has to mod them into ArmA 3)

lol, what is up with you? The party of regions and the communistic party were the most corrupt parties, thats not blaming, thats a fact. Hell, the communists were paying the separatists until the very last moment and Janukovichs "family" is one of the biggest money givers for the separatists as of right now, not metioning the extreme corruption prior to that. ---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ---------- Exept that it wasn't the current government, but the total amount of money since 1991. If you put that into perspective, 5 billion dollars is a tiny sum. At least read the articles you post.

What an evil evil guy. How dares he say Russia sucks? No, but seriously, he is just a ultranationalist who lives in a parallel universe inside of his head. Edit: I also love how Russia wants to put him in jail for things he said in Ukraine. ---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ---------- The most corrupt parties were the party of regions and the communist party. Seeing how the first one fell apart and the second one has been thown out, that should be a pointer about the current corruption. But I doubt that the government will allow things to fall back as they were, because they can't afford a second Maidan.

Yes, I do not deny that civilians died due to the artillery of the army, however, the army did not deliberately shoot at civilians. It is no secret that the separatists fire from civilian areas and use them as cover. Even RT did a video when the Vostok Batallion first marched into Lugansk from Russia where you could see that they were shooting from residential areas and from residential buildings at border guards and later hid inside residential buildings in order to avoid fire from the air. It is also no secret that the Ukrainian army is in a poor condition and poorly trained, since Ukraine was never at war and most of the infrantry consists of volunteers who have little to no experience in the army, making it much harder to be precise, but at the moment the civilian per separatist death toll is much lower than in Israel, where they have high tech rockets and extremely tiny in comparison to what the russians did in Chechnya.

Except for all the evidence we have. We have the exact launch position, the tapped conversations, the shrapnel on the hull, the suspicious behavior of the separatists, videos of the Buk, exact postions et cetera. Oh and on behalf the the conversations, they have been tapped from the very beginning of the conflict and always turned out to be true. They have first tapped Girkin, when he was still in russia and supplying the separatists, they have tapped all the "peoples governeurs" and so on. Oh and I prefer living under a government that is fighting against corruption, than under some "Novorosiya", led by Mafiosi and russian agents who are killing and destroying everything they see. Oh and there is no proof for your ethnic-cleansing, exept for desperate claims by moscow. Sure, colateral damage is always present, but the army is not firing grads and mortars randomly into cities like the separatists do. Hell, they even issued an order to forbid artillery in proximity of cities altogether (Of course how many people are going to follow the order is another question, but thats for another time).

Igor "Strelkov" Girkin asking for artillery from russia. (I'll try to update this post if an english translation appears) http://youtu.be/nNjHVmOw21g

"Two minutes before the Boeing-777 tragedy" Here they first speak about how crappy of a situation they are in, money and stuff. In the second part, Purgin speaks about how much of an asshole idiot Strelkov is, when it comes to things other than war and that he is destroying the whole city with his actions, closing all trade, banning all imports and stopping all infrastructure.