aleksadragutin

Yor first sentince explains why Russia shoudn't be sanctioned by "the west". Cause they made it clear that bombing for "peace" is international law.

Very easy to fake in photoshop.

The fact that more countries did it doesn't make it legal, just or right.

I guess because it is not official.

The word west has been in use in that context for decades (at least, since I, and pretty much everyone I talked to, have been using it). And the media has been attacking Russia since the olympics in Sochi. I remember seeing a report, where they were showing the hands of some labor worker, stating how rotten the Russian system was and showing the pictures only of the poorest people and beggars.

You don't think such a thing exists?

What is paranoiac about this?

Why do you pretend you don't know what west means? To clarify, by west I mean US, UK, Germany, France. It's fine if Russians, Kazakhs or neutral countries criticize it, Ukraine is understandable too, but the spearhead of the attack on everything Russian, or similar to it has been (besides Ukraine media) the media of the countries I call west (the same countries that invented tactics Russia is using now).

You don't get the point. The west doesn't have any rights to sanction, or even to critcize Russia, since what they do every couple of years is exactly the same. Everyone wants a peacefull world, but the west is not letting this be, so there needs to be someone to stand up to it, and create more or less balance in the world. But the west want's to have monopoly, and that is why you see in every game/movie Russians being the bad guys. The anti Russian propaganda started even before the olympic games, as a kind of a media preparation.

Not everything is what it seams at a first glance. There are incredible webs of interests around Putin, and I personally don't believe he makes major decisions on his own.

No, that's bullshit. Not that Putin cares about Putin, that part is normal and logical, but believing that Putin him self has the power to create such a conflict on his own. It's like blaming Obama for not taking actions. Obama can't do this without congress support, and congress does what lobby firms tell it to. It's the will of the oligarchs, both in Russia and the US, and the rest of capitalist world for that matter.

But then the reporter said he does not support Russians, but that he also doesn't support the UA doing what it's doing, and then the line was cut. That part doesn't seem very professional to me. ---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ---------- All NATO has been doing this whole crisis is trying to provoke it.

He's forgetting natural gas, the only thing stopping Europe of taking further actions.

No, the press announced that it was Russians crossing the border, but the satellite images that are released are inconclusive.

Support yes, but seriously, NATO notices an ant move 2 cm towards Ukraine, but it doesn't have enough evidence to accuse Russia of military presence. I mean come on. If they can't prove it, nobody can. You simply can't move thousands of troops with such stealth.

Weapon and ammunition supplies, sure. But the Russian army itself in Ukraine is a very very wild theory, and is as ridiculous as the Russian propaganda. Only this can't bee propaganda because it is on western and Ukrainian news, right?

No, the point is that Russia wouldn't waist men, ammo and time with this stand still. If the Russian army is really involved, the offensive wouldn't have stopped. Do you think one ruined airport is really to much for the Russians to handle? If Russia really wanted to, the whole Donbass could be taken. The "Russian army in Ukraine" is an excuse to justify UA failure to defeat the rebels, and also to distance the soldiers from the people that they are killing. My point is that the Russian army hasn't been there at all.

This is up until they reached Mariupol, then they stopped, and the stand still dragged on for months. ---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ---------- You expect me to go through 600 pages of the thread to find some examples. I'm to lazy to do that, but if you've been following the thread for the last 6 months, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Russia is probably sending military aid to the rebels, but think about it. If the Russian army is really involved, then how come they're wasting men for months and no progress, no new offensives? And then you go and ridicule anyone with a different opinion while calling them a conspiracy theorist (while perpetuating one your self). What is happening here a lot is that someone says "Russians in Ukraine!!!" and "Here's proof" and then a picture of some random guy standing buy a sign post (often so blurry and low resolution that you can't even read what the sign says) , or of a box of shells on the ground, and says "there's the proof". The others see this and say "Yeah, yeah, it's the Russians alright.". News shouldn't work like that. That's one sided and unfair in so many ways. ---------- Post added at 15:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:01 ---------- If I'm not mistaking, that is the image that was criticized on that German show.

Certainly not aid quality material.

The warning letter has already been posted a couple of times, but it makes the situation a bit less fogy.

Since I'm not going to start another argument with you, I'm just going to say that you can't school me about my own country from wikipedia. It's ridiculous since I can edit that article later and change it to whatever I like. The story of peaceful Albanians being tortured by monster Serbs is a school example of what the western propaganda, many claim doesn't exist, can do. Please do watch the documentaries. I am not to proud to admit that Serbs have done something wrong (sure they did) but no more than anyone else. I am saying this because I have friends that are refugees, they're houses burned or possessed by Albanians. Two blocks from my house there are blocks of houses purpose built for the refugees. Across the road from that there are 4 more houses for 16 families that fled. I see those people every day, and then I hear about us expelling poor Albanians and it makes me sick cause there were more Albanians after '98 than before. Anyway, my point is that western propaganda does very much exist. If your point was otherwise then I don't know what to say to that, except you must be ether blind or unwilling to see this. Why do you have to go into crimes, when what I posted is true (and you can't deny it through real arguments). ---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ---------- We don't really know where and when the picture was taken.

The German documentary was posted here a while back, It shows how there were no concentration camps for civilians and no house burning in Kosovo (like it was said in Germany). Regarding Iraq, it was the "He has bio weapons, and he's coming to get us.", which was also false. Surprised you don't recall that.

According to documentaries about NATO aggression on SRJ in '99 the OSCE observers didn't spot any of the stories perpetuated to justify the aggression, but the western powers (mainly Germany and US) went on the intelligence that they "had" which later turned out to be false, same with Iraq. Then there are the cases of OSCE and UNMIK and UNPROFOR material being used in certain context and manipulated to an extent, by the said powers. This manipulated material then enters the media, spins around, gets quoted by other media, and you have a closed circle (because many different news agencies quote the same source, people think it's true because it is presented by different people).

NATO has been reporting Russian troops moving towards Ukrainian border for months. By now the Russians should have reached Hungary.