Slayer_SK

of course you are not going to make it 100% like in real. but there is a lot of stuff that is important when you want a fun melee system that works fine. it would be fine if there are a few basic attacks like slash, stab and block with a good animation and colision. a senseful damage system would also improve the playability of such a feature. if the there is a need, it would be possible to add another attacks or moves and features based on that one. i mean people are thinking of making full conversion mods but they need a melee system there. THAT is the point i want to say all the time. in my opinion every advanced engine should have a melee feature. this one doesnt.

thats the point. its the question how to do it. there are several ways and also concepts to create a nice melee system. but in my opinion noone of them satisfied my expectations to the topic melee. the problem are the different situations which may occure. and their amount. we see that when closing a gap in the simulation we open at least one more to fix or overwork to fit in the big picture of a virtual reality. like this one: an armoured enemy is attacked usually in a different way than a non armoured guys. its known that the spartans used a lot of joint breaking locks and chokes to defeat their well armoured enemies. same is known for judo and the user the samurai. these guys always fought to bring the enemy to the ground with throwing and leaver techniques and choked their opponents to death on ground or broke their joints, stabbed with dagger into throat etc... this is just ONE point and its even without striking. (exept knife finisher) to make strikes also realistic we have to count in the human anatomy again and the impact of these attacks also like the movement of the body and target. means distance. distance is again something very important in this point. the reason is because not every melee attack is same effective or used at a certain distance to the target. and this would be the worst discussion, worse than about knifes: which melee techniques (strikes, chokes, etc) are seriously useful in combat scenarios? which shall be implemented, which shouldnt? the next point is complexity. to win a fight in a complex melee system you need a lot of training. firefighting is taught fast because you are always doing the same thing with your weapon: lining up sight and firing. its also the same weapon and has the same parameters or feeling. but imagine melee combat. there is used almost everything as a weapon. from headbutts, picked up objects (like a stone) or elbows, fingers, fists. every of these weapons has its own properties in use and also effekt maybe even animation. from a technical point of view this is seriously a lot of stuff to think about. to just begin with something we should determine whats seriously necessary to create the solid basis of a melee system. if we want one...

allright, maybe i wasnt precise enough about what i meant. no i didnt try that, but what else would you do when you get really close? i mean war is war, you never know what happens and how a situation develops. it is possible that you get into a fight where are no firearms used. i suggested that it is clear that nobody is just cod like storming a room with a knife. but there are occasions where its possible to use the knife. my point is, that melee is a quite complex topic in game development. i thought that from a game design point. its incredibly difficult to develop a smooth melee system. there is the question of realism, techniques, controls, damage system, physics and a lot more. we also should imagine the possibilities with a nice melee system. the gameplay possibilities, funfactor etc. it would strongly improve the engine capabilities. i mean imagine a medieval arma in warfare. building a castle and slaughtering soldiers in warfare mode. or having huge siege scenarios with massive melee fighting on the walls and entrances. arrows are raining from the sky and siege towers are pushed towards the walls. ladders are climbed and the nasty mayhem begins. all this with a nice, smooth melee simulation. i mean i would seriously die for that. i would play that game maybe more often than arma 2 with its modern warfare scenario. by the way i am not a good fighter or anything like that but i did combat sports and i talked to many people, also read a lot in the german community for melee, combat sports, self defense, professional training and all kind of martial arts. knifes are nasty and absolutely deadly. some people fear them even more than a gun. the reason is because many criminals use knifes and they also know how to use it. but in a war scenario: i mean imagine a struggle in a tight staircase like in medieval towers. i bet there are such places. imagine that you missed with your gun and the enemy is upon you with a knife or fists. the space is so tight that you are maximum 1m from an enemy when goin upwards... in this scenario i would seriously use a knife. it would probably do it faster than pulling my pistol and trying to aim in a grabbling situation. i meant such nasty close quarter combat. this stuff happened and happens and probably will happen often again until humans become intelligent enough to live together in peace. maybe you understand me now ;) @ ryan you are saying exactly that what i wanted to tell the people. @ Alpha i dont like it to be treaten in such an aggressive and negative way. i also dislike hearing all the time whats not possible. i want to hear solutions. i can tell you 100000 reasons why it WONT work. but right now i may have only one in my head trying to write it down. you are right that my comment was a bit difficult to understand but i think you are definitely not helping us in any way. this behaviours is neither going to solve the problem nor answer any questions. i would like it if you could change that and help us in our need of a proper melee system. its quite clear that many people want it. i would estimate about 50% right now. estimating a high quality melee combat system and i bet there would be 90% people totally convinced that it was a good choice. the only problem is that so much of other stuff has to be fixed too and the question is WHO is going to do all this? the community or bohemia? what will be done by who? i have the feeling like we have to be the pioneers because bohemia seems to add only the most necessary features because of the high cost in developing this stuff. we have to imagine that just creating that engine is not easy, not mentioning a game.

minute is too long. by FAR. fight a guy one minute long... its not that easy. if the kill is not immediately its not a good kill anymore. you messed somethig up... you would also have no chance to stay one minute at the same spot. i would estimate 0,5-5 seconds max for such a "from behind" kill. nothing more because its gonna be a barfight with knifes and riflebutts...

i guess what most people also do wrong when imagining stealthy killing is that they have to approach their target at a risky way and kill it while being then in a bad position. sorry but who acts like that is probably an unexperienced person in qestions of stealth. stealth means taking the opportunity to cover something. either its your movement (sneaking, climbing, crawling) or your actions (sabotage, killing). a warrior who knows and respects that will wait at you. behind a corner. once you go past him he grabs and kills you. i bet this is not a problem for a highly trained soldier or a guy with experience in that. this warrior is also not going to let the body drop, neither is he attacking with lack of information, teammates, situational awareness or the proper skill to use that tactic. means this tactic is used when it fits. we all know that it doesnt fit all time and everytime. another case (non stealth): i am the pointman in the breaching team and enter the building, hug left wall and move towards corner: i keep closing in to the enemy (what i am supposed to do) and use all my weapons which are required: too far for melee - sidearm: pistol if he is too close that i can pull my pistol or i am already using my pistol and following happens: jam, empty mag = malfunction ---> melee there is no time in pulling a pistol in that case and also point it at somebody. i want tu HURT that person to disrupt it. pull and just immediately stab or attack. a knife is not a onehitkiller same like a pistol or a rifle. it has to be an well aimed attack to kill instantly so this argument is also not working against the blade because we can say the same about silencers. so when you are capable of training your aim with rifles, you also can with blades. and theres no thing like a iron sight, yeah. but at that distance you seriously dont need it... if you would need a kind of reference you pointing at, you could use your knifetip. once you get used to the animations and movement to hit properly... just a question of training. same like firing weapons. i guess many guys would shit their pants if they also would have to learn melee combat in a game to be a pwner. they cant unrealistically shoot everbody from every situation anymore because there is a nice counter for cqb: melee. another poin: in both sides are the same ifs. if, if if... you dont use it properly you lose. thats it. its just a difference of ammo and range thats all. also while being hit by a blade several times a second you probably wont be able to use your rifle properly or pull your gun when a fully packed armoured warrior storms the room, pulls his knife and starts attacking you at a distance where firearms are becoming useless. i also cant imagine that i would stand in front of a guy and stab him to wait till he shoots back... i will attack. jam and block, disarm him or jabkick to stun / throw back, jump on and stab, stab, slash, kick, stab, throw, etc... within seconds or miliseconds... i wouldnt stand and wait till he points that gun at me. i would surpress him with melee. if its a buttstock, boot, knife, shovel, axe, stone, chair, sand, knee, fist, choke, whatever... the capability to continuously attack the enemy with no reloading at point blank range where firearms become almost useless or better said useless or even LOST. or have you tried to aim and fire in such a struggle? another fact about the myth knife: -its easy to use and cheap. its standart. -everybody has at least one. -solid old design never expires. -all armies use it in combat, but not all soldiers! -it takes a lot of skill to master but if mastered its seriously a terrifying weapon! the next point i want to bring in is, that most of the people neither here have an idea of what melee combat means or firefighting. its nice to make suggestions but to sell them as 100% truth is kind of silly. to not forget: melee combat also has MANY different aspects and weapons, parameters etc which have to be counted in. it would be something complex and big if well done. i bet it would take almost same amount of work, with animations probably even more to be done well. it means it would be probably a whole new aspect of fighting and also the engine. i am right now preparing myself to start a project and working and finding a solution or system to make melee combat more enjoyable in games. to implement it into an engine and get some nice content around the gameplay... still not sure about the scenario, but something like worlwar z (headshotonly slow zombie sim) or medieval warfare (also sim. siege, maybe even economy) is in my mind. especially a medieval game in warfaremode should be an awesome shit! to be honest i would like to see more things fixed in arma and its engine. i still would strongly appreciate and love to see proper melee. it should be seriously considered of implementing such a feature to enlarge the capabilities of VBS. if i would start making it in arma, i would try to bring it in like ace or acre. probably callin it "A.M.C.E". Advanced Melee Combat Environment. :D compatible with other mods, especially ace. smooth and well done work. to make it short: implementing it right that it doesnt look like another construction side but like an awesome feature which works well. my question is only, if VBS is useful for implementing this. especially the lack of physics can be somehow difficult at some point. the new A 3 should be far better but i its not available and i dont like the alternatives UDK or Cryengine 3 that much like the awesome variety and scale of VBS.

i am totally looking for a melee solution. especially because of zombie and medieval stuff... i believe it would add a lot of useful and funny game mechanics and possibilities. i mean we even have plastic handcuffs, earplugs and bodybags! hell, why no melee system then? the only question for me is: is it really possible to properly implement melee combat into the engine of arma 2? will it fit technically? i am not a coder but i have thought about this topic a lot and also did my research... from game design perspective i am sure its possible. it would be interesting to hear what a coder has to say about that. maybe one of the developers could give us a hint if such a project is possible. if its just simply hard work or a fight against wind mills because of the engine? i would really appreciate any help in that question...