nightsta1ker

I don't expect every building to be totally accurately placed or anything like that. But if the map is as big as they say it is, there are some major airports that are right there. If those are not present, well... taking that much liberty with the scenery would kind of make it pointless to try and replicate it.

Agreed, I just hope they don't butcher it. Based on shots so far, I'm not sure. They got the skyline right, I'm just worried about details like airports etc. I will be one VERY happy camper if I get to fly out of KBFI.

Great to see you on here Adam!

+1 on this. Good call man!

As I have stated before, BIS is going to do what they are going to do. I will be buying the product regardless. I am just voicing my humble opinion (even if it doesn't read so humble sometimes). In MY opinion, there is no good reason not to have at least SOMEWHAT accurately modeled helicopters in this game. Of course, we don't know what BIS' reasoning is so it's all speculation. The fact that they have not commented on this discussion yet leads me to beleive that they are either on the fence about it, or they are rooted in cement on it and either way have no comment. If they are on the fence, I hope that my comments can help bring them around. If they are rooted in cement, they don't give a toot and will just ignore my posts anyway. Whichever way the cookie crumbles, I am sure we will see accurate models show up for the game post release. There are alot of talented people in this community, and if the flight dynamics and other features are worth it to the sim community, you will get a whole lot more talented people coming into the ranks. I think I've said my piece on the matter.

Here's my question. Anyone familiar with the Grumman/Ubisoft debacle? Grumman wanted Ubisoft to pay licensing fees for their name being used in an add on for IL-2 Sturmovich. However, I beleive that Ubisoft could have completely avoided the whole thing if they had not put "Fly the Grumman Wildcat!" on the box for the software. By using the name brand and claiming that their model was accurate to the real thing, they opened themselves up for some problems. Here is my issue with the models being shown in TOH. As I have said before, look at the MH-6 for ArmA. Then look at the hybrid MD-500/EC120 for TOH. If they are trying to avoid copyright issues with MD, why did they model the MH-6 accurately? It's made by MD Helicopters. The difference in copyright between military and civilian manufacturers is nonexistant, as the Grumman case brings to point. They can simply avoid any kind of lawsuit by not NAMING the aircraft specifically. Hell, the can call it a HUGHES 500 and avoid any kind of lawsuit there! Hughes made the 500 design for decades before selling the rights to McDonald-Douglas who then got bought out by Boeing, who sold the rights to the airframe to MD Helicopters who continue to manufacture them. Or they could just not name it at all. They could reference it as the "500" model, not specifying the manufacturer. And as for avoiding all the nitpickers out there... as was already pointed out, no two aircraft are exactly the same. Show me two helicopters where all the dials, gauges, switches, rivets, and bolts are all in exactly the same place and I will be surprised. They are built to order for whatever needs need to be filled by the buyer. In short, my opinion is: F**** the copyright stuff, or the name brand. Call it something else, who cares? I just want to see a somewhat accurate 500 and 212. I could really care less if they call it something different. Going so far as to make the models look different is overkill. Bohemia is going to do what they want. I am sure the decision has been made, and I am sure they have their reasons, but after years of seeing VERY accurate and realistic aircraft coming out for Flight Simulator, and after seeing realistic aircraft for ArmA I and II, I am a little disapointed we don't get the same treatement for TOH.

I wish I could do some game testing. Unfortunately travelling outside the country is out of the question for me.

I hear you. I think we are all looking foreward to having something to do. I used to be a member of the USEC virtual military as a helo pilot. I loved ferrying troops in and out of combat, even though the flight models for Arma were very limited and unrealistic. Having a game with realistic flight characteristics and lots of different things to accomplish will be very refreshing.

I have not read or heard anything about it.

As a 10 year veteran pilot and mechanic, I can tell you I know that no 2 aircraft are alike. This aside, I can look at an aircraft, even if it is heavily modified, and tell you what it is. None of the aircraft seen in the previews for TOH are even close to reality. They look like deliberate hybrids of several different models. The "light" helicopter variant looks like a combo between an EC 120 Colibri and an MD 500. The "medium" helicopter looks like a combo between a AW139 and a B212. I have not seen enough pictures of the "heavy" model to tell you what two aircraft they merged, but one of them appears to be a Merlin. There are enough significant differences to say that they are NOT any particular aircraft, however heavily modified. If you change the shape of the cabin on an MD 500 and put the T tail horizontal stabilizer somewhere on the tailboom instead then it's not a 500 anymore. It's something else. Needless to say, there are a few people who are turned off by this lack of realism, especially after seeing how accurate other models have been in ArmA. I am quite sure there must be a reason they are doing this. Whatever their reason, I am not happy that realistic visual models will not be included and I know I'm not the only one.

Don't wish too hard, it will turn out to be a half Seaking half something else... ---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ---------- And on that topic I STILL do not understand how they could model real aircraft for ArmA but not for their new game ABOUT helicopters?

Whew! I must say I was a little worried, but thanks for the reassurances. I guess I don't blame you fdor using auto trim and auto hover. Heck, there are pilots out there that can't fly without it! But I need that left pedal input if I am going be interersted at all in this game. No dynamics, no customer. The fact that you guys are using real pilots as advisors to the development gives me a warm fuzzy, though. Keep up the good work, looking foreward to more! Once again, sorry for the criticism, I just had to address the issues I saw. I have a lot of interest in how this game turns out.

Please tell me the video was made flying on the "easy" setting. I did not see any left pedal or left cyclic on takeoff (counter-torque and adjusting for translating tendency). Also, that low frequency "whoosh whoosh whoosh" sound from the over-water scene is not accurate. I hope those were "movie trailer" sounds and not in-game audio. It's hard to appreciate the cool visuals when some of the basics alot of us have been so much looking foreward to are not represented. I know it's an early build, so please forgive the criticism.

What ARE you talking about Willis?

Hamilton Viewpoint Park.

You should read the latest article regarding the game. Seems to me it's already implemented.

Thanks for sharing! :rolleyes:

I can hardly beleive that I will be able to preflight the helicopter before going on a job. This is the real deal guys. Hopefully it will be optional and a quick affair though, for the non hardcore simmers. I sometimes spend more time looking over the aircraft than I do actually flying it. As they say, "Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory".

This is looking very promising. BIS is accomplishing things the flight simulator community has not been able to due to limitations of the platform. This clean slate approach may be the best thing that has ever happened for the helicopter sim community. Also, depending on the level of success, a follow on full blown simulator might not just be possible, but plausible and marketable as well. One thing is certain, if BIS can accurately model helicopter flight physics, fixed wing will be easy. And the dynamic world of the ArmA series (which is obviously being carried over to TOH to some extent) gives all of this endless potential.

You could always prod me with updates and then grin at my reaction.

The most recent press release available on the forum clearly covers what BIS's intentions are to solve this problem. There will be a simple startup of 10 or so switches, which is realistic for a light-medium lift helicopter, and there will also be a beginner mode where you can just press a button and spin up. Flight model will be scalable as well. Seems they have it covered for both hardcore simmers and arcade gamers alike. Time will tell how well it pleases either side. Let's just wait for some more development to happen. It's clear that BIS is listening and is doing their best to give us all what we want.

Well... OK. I think I'm going to stop posting suggestions, because they obviously have the situation well in hand.

I am sure they already have something implemented, and it may well be a damn sight better than my suggestion. I'm just filling the time spent waiting by making suggestions. ;)

Me too :eek: I have my CFI ride looming on the not too distant horizon. They say every pilot will fail at least ONE checkride in their career. For most pilots that checkride is the CFI. Luckily for me, I failed my PPFW oral back in 2001, so I already got my ONE out of the way!

That would be SWEET!