Jockson

Aside from the obvious reasons why a game like ARMA is not that popular, there is a bit more to it to be honest. The single player is, well, not great. The game is still buggy, performs relatively poorly and feels unpolished overall. The controls are clunky and there are numerous gameplay issues still present since OFP. The multiplayer has the potential for an amazing online experience but is hugely let down by a few big problems. IMO there is a lack of high quality MP missions that ship with the game. Then there's lack of variety as nearly everyone seems to be playing domination or warfare maps, mostly with close to zero teamwork contrary to what you'd expect from a "military simulator". Last and most important, the netcode is just awful. Lagging and warping irrespective of server load and client connection quality has always been a major turn off for many people I have shown the game to. And really, there is excuse as to why even OFP is much smoother online.

It's edge lit LED I believe, yes. Not necessarily "cheapo" though. It's mostly about the resolution for me. I don't really find playing games on my HDTV all that immersive despite the size tbh. A 2560x1600 30" IPS monitor on the other hand is something else.

If you won't settle for anything less than 45fps then ARMA is probably not the game for you. Not that the engine couldn't be more optimized than it is, far from that, but having the sheer size of the game in mind you can't really expect consistently high frame rate. Considering the slow pace of the game, it is not really needed IMO. Either way, just don't force yourself to like it. I am a die hard OFP fan and while I immensely respect ARMA 2 for what it is, I can't say I love it. My advice would be to start without any big mods, play around in the editor and get to know the game and what it is and what it can do. If the whole concept of huge maps with so much freedom and possibilities isn't really your thing or is ruined by performance issues, AI behaviour or whatever then like I said, it just might not be the game for you :)

You mean network lag or FPS issues? Frame rate wise, the game runs relatively well for me with latest patches. Netcode is what needs to be drastically improved and while not unplayable, it's still a pretty big issue in my opinion.

Thanks, you too man :cheers:

I agree. With high FPS I meant 60+ of course. I don't see why would 30fps on a 120Hz monitor feel smoother than 30fps on a 60Hz monitor. There may be less motion blur but it's due to the faster matrix being used rather than 120Hz making the difference. Considering 120Hz monitors require a panel that doesn't exceed 8ms for any color transition, they are equipped with fast panels by default. A reasonably fast 60Hz panel should look the same as any 120Hz panel when the game is running at 30fps.

I can see it making a bit of a difference in gameplay but only with high FPS and only in single player. Will all the lag going on in ARMA 2 multiplayer 120Hz is unnecessary IMO. Which is why I don't fully agree with the "if you are buying now go with 120Hz for sure" statement. All 120Hz monitors use TN panels and cost more than regular LCDs. Many people who don't play games where 120Hz would really show a big difference would be probably better off spending that money on a better quality panel type instead.

I've finally upgraded my computer and switched from OFP to ARMA 2 and I'm loving it, but one thing keeps bugging the hell out of me: the vegetation LOD switching when using the zoom button. It's not my video and it's from ARMA 1 but just to make it clear what I'm referring to: RsfiXZaCZ_M Now, I do realize the models need to change at some point and when moving around that is absolutely fine as it's a lot harder to notice. However, when looking at trees and bushes from distance, those higher quality models that you get when you zoom in with the right mouse button are not really that much more detailed but the change in shape is very noticeable and distracting. I'm far from an expert when it comes to graphics in computer games so feel free to shoot this idea down if it's silly :) My suggestion is to disable LOD switching of the vegetation when using the zoom button but leave everything else as it is now. So, basically LODs of trees and bushes don't change when casually eye zooming but when you actually move/get closer to them or use optics/binoculars then they switch like they do now. Would this be possible to implement as an option and what does everyone think about it? Despite the models being actually less detailed, it would make the game look better IMO and perhaps even improve the performance as well.

Yeah, it should be possible to turn it off on most sets. Look for a feature called MotionFlow, MotionPlus, TrueMotion etc. Some TVs have different levels to choose from, some only have off/on. One benefit of 120Hz is that it makes 5:5 pulldown possible for 24p material since 120 can be divided by both 24 and 30 with an even number of frames. Meaning it gets rid of the 3:2 pulldown judder that you get when watching 24fps movies on a 60Hz TV. Not all 120Hz support this AFAIR and some that do require certain options to be enabled/disabled.

They use motion interpolation. Instead of receiving the 60Hz signal and simply displaying each frame twice, they use video processors to create "fake" frames in between the real ones. This does make the motion look smoother and reduce the perceived motion blur (although it doesn't get rid of it completely because the sample-and-hold problem is still there) but there are a few side effects that make it unsuitable for gaming, the main one being the high input lag. Because the interpolation works by analyzing two frames to generate one in between, the tv needs a certain amount of buffered information to do the processing. This results in an image that is several frames behind which is fine for TV but not good for games. It is this interpolation that does exactly what DMarkwick is describing. When turned on, it makes films look like video. Some people like that some don't. PC monitors work differently. They are able to receive a true 120Hz signal and display 120 frames with some models having zero input lag. It is worth noting that while all 120Hz PC monitors right now are truly 120Hz, there are also 120/240Hz monitors coming that use motion interpolation methods and only have a 60Hz input. This will cause all sorts of confusion when the manufacturers turn it into a "Hz race".

Yep, it's down to the matrix as there are no LED LCD monitors with local dimming on the market. There has been some big improvements in the last couple of years for all LCD techs. IPS no longer have poor black levels, some TNs are actually very good now in this regard. VA panels have an incredible 3000:1 to 4000:1 static contrast ratio now. LED is mostly for power saving and slim profile when it comes to computer monitors.

I mostly agree, yeah. Very few people will benefit from 120Hz with ARMA 2 mainly for two reasons. Even the latest hardware will have a hard time keeping up with such high fps in the game and also ARMA 2 is not really the type of game where all the extra smoothness would really make much difference in gameplay.

I don't have a powerful enough system to run ARMA 2 at over 60fps. All I'm saying that someone who does may be able to spot the difference because it is there even if I don't care for it. It's not a placebo effect or anything. If it's CCFL backlit then it's not LED is it? ;)

Not everyone can notice it but it's pretty simple. The higher the Hz, the higher the possible fps. rickidoo is right when he says what would happen if you were to reduce the refresh rate to 30 then 15. Many people would notice 30fps being less smooth and the majority would say 15fps is slow and jerky. So when does smooth become smooth enough so you can no longer perceive any further increase in frame rate? That seems to differ from person to person. While I can immediately spot the difference, it's not something I really care for especially in a slow paced game like ARMA and especially because 120Hz LCDs are all TN and will be for some time. As for the LED thing, it's only full array LED backlit TVs that benefit from deeper blacks thanks to the use of local dimming technology. Aside from super expensive professional IPS screens, LCD monitors are all edge lit LED which does nothing for picture quality but saves power and allows for thinner design. You are simply seeing better blacks because the LCD matrix used in your monitor is better than your previous monitor. LED vs CCFL by itself makes no difference in static contrast :)

Actually, edge lit LED backlight does nothing for better blacks/contrast ;) Try switching between 60Hz and 120Hz on your monitor back and forth and drag/scroll stuff around in Windows. There should be a noticeable difference in smoothness. Long time CRT users usually immediately notice this when they switch to LCD.

Providing you have a powerful enough system to run games at high fps, every game will feel smoother on a true 120Hz monitor. Even the mouse cursor and dragging stuff around in Windows will feel smoother. I say "true" 120Hz because 120Hz/240Hz TVs still only take 60Hz input and interpolate frames so it's only 120Hz computer monitors that can truly display 120 frames. It's a shame they are all TN panels at the moment though.

You think? :D Nah, I've actually stopped playing ARMA and I'm back to OFP so I am very well aware how repetitive the radio voices are/were. I wasn't actually suggesting to do it THE OFP way, just to keep it more simple because the whole idea of recording each and every word separately and by different actors too simply doesn't seem to be working with the current system. The OFP example I gave is robotic for sure. ARMA's: "ENEMY. man. 500 meters. TO OUR.... front" takes it to another level. They might as well have used Microsoft Sam to do the voices, perhaps it would have made moments such as "taking fire" and "we lost 6" sound more emotional instead of said in a casual matter ;)

It does look better than OFP obviously but I still prefer OFP graphics because they were so much more consistent and in turn more immersive. ARMA 2 looks amazing until you start moving around, zooming, using weapon optics... in other words playing. Then everything turns into a performance and LOD nightmare. Operation Arrowhead has to have the worst vegetation I have seen in a computer game, ever. Incredibly detailed trees that only a couple of meters further away from you turn into green blobs that keep changing into different shaped blobs. Do we really need 7 or 8 different LODs for a simple bush? Even a simple RMB zoom is enough to go through multiple LOD changes. Wouldn't it be better and more immersive to have more consistent graphics short vs long distances wise even at the cost of close up detail? After all, it's the massive scale of the game that sets it apart from everything else out there. OA's graphics are a step in the wrong direction in this sense IMO. My wishes for future ARMA games if there ever will be one would be: - More consistent look. Go easy on super detailed vegetation with millions of polygons if it means performance issues and too much LOD switching like now is the case. Quite a few games have shown that vegetation which looks good enough for a mil sim can be done a lot more efficiently. - Improve multiplayer. I know there is no magic fix for this but MP game experience is very disappointing with so much lagging and stuttering going on, Again, the graphics performance issues don't do any good when it comes to this either. - While when you consider the size and scale of the game the AI is pretty decent, there is a lot room for improvement especially because it's a big part of the game. Major pathfinding issues present since OFP just shouldn't be there anymore. - Voice acting/radio voices. Don't think much needs to be said sadly. It's one part of the game that I can say is truly horrible. I understand having voice actors to record every single sentence in full would cost money, take a lot of disk space etc. but wouldn't it be better to keep it simple then and do it more similar to OFP way? Perhaps "12 o'clock man 500" isn't how soldiers talk in real life but at least in OFP it sounded somewhat natural, as if one person was saying it, instead of individual words being spoken at different speed and different pitch with pauses in between. There's room for improvement in many other areas too of course like the UI, animations, physics, sounds etc. For example, it is nice how we have engine starting sounds for vehicles, but the actual engine sound while driving isn't smooth at all like it was in OFP.

To answer the OP, hell yeah! After a long time of trying to like ARMA 2 I'm fully back to the best game ever. OFP is the superior game in nearly every way in my eyes. Character control, vehicle control with the mouse, the graphics (yes, the graphics... ARMA only looks pretty at close distances), voice acting/radio voices, the music, the atmosphere, the gameplay... ARMA doesn't even come close. My perfect game would be OFP with some stuff brought over from ARMA 2 and NOT the other way around. I suppose no one cares but I wanted to say it anyway :D Long live OFP!

I'd love to see more character customization options. Out of so many immersion killers present in the game, people get annoyed over someone wearing sun glasses at night? Seriously?

It has been getting worse for some time now, no doubt about it. I only have the demo of OA but people are reporting even more LOD issues in latest patches. I can only imagine how bad it is if it's worse than in the demo. The trees don't even look like they were generated in LINDA anymore and the multiple morphing is just horrendous to look at. Two things would make a world of a difference: - more consistent graphics, less LODs even at the expense of close up detail - can be done - remove the morphing effect altogether - might be possible to do by us, definitely possible by BIS I've been messing around in Oxygen 2 with ARMA models and stuff and I noticed it's only the vegetation that does this moprhing of textures when you zoom in and out in Buldozer. All the other objects/units switch LODs instantly. Moreover, after installing CAA1 and ACE island pack, when playing OFP islands in ARMA 2 the LODs of trees switch just like they do in OFP. That makes me think there might be a way to do the same with ARMA trees as well. Being a noob when it comes to modding I haven't been able to do it but I did notice changing PixelShaderID and VertexShaderID values to "Tree" can make an aircraft do the morphing instead of instant switching for example. By changing a tree model to different shaders I DID manage to get rid of the morphing effect but that introduced some texture problems. I've sent a PM to a poster who is knowledgeable on this subject so we'll see what he says :) As long as it's possible, I'm willing to learn how and do it no matter how hard it is. Yes, kju's mod is a good one. Getting rid of the highest quality LODs and the ugly textures seen at distance. More FPS, less LOD switching, more consistent look. Like I said, I am a bit of a newb when it comes to this stuff but I THINK I could do what he did if I had OA :) It still doesn't solve the issue of morphing effect rearing its ugly head when using binoculars and weapons with optics though. Also, I very much liked his Resistance vegetation mod. Even if the trees obviously don't look as good as those up close in ARMA, they are good enough for a mil sim and much more immersive IMO due to zero LOD switching. Shame about the bugs though and only one tree model was used. Without the bugs and with more varied tree models it could look very, very good.

I've been really trying to like ARMA 2 for about a year now but recently I went back to playing OFP and you know what? I'm not missing much. Sure, the game has improved in certain areas as it would be expected considering OFP came out a long time ago but there are still many frustrating issues that were present in OFP and still haven't been properly fixed, not to mention the game has become worse in quite a few aspects as well. Perhaps one of my biggest gripes is strangely enough the graphics. Yes, the graphics do look very pretty in ARMA 2... on screenshots. Of all games, you'd think a mil sim would aim for more consistent graphics instead of being so "player centric". By that, I mean trees with a million polygons near you - paint smudges a bit further away. And what's worse, all those LODs don't switch instantly but rather with the painfully obvious morphing effect (which I explained why it's unnecessary in my thread in the suggestions forum). No matter how high FPS you have, when you use a scoped weapon every single bush and every single tree will slowly change its shape in motion. Not only is this ugly and kills immersion, it also gives you an impression you are running at very low FPS and your computer is struggling to load textures which isn't the case. This issue also seems to be becoming worse with each version. As harsh as it sounds, OA is a bit of a joke in this regard if I'm being honest. At maxed out settings, a small bush 50m in front of me morphs into a completely different shape when using the rmb zoom. Seriously?! This is why, as odd as it sounds, I prefer OFP graphics. Sure, the game looks dated on the whole which is understandable, but the vegetation is effective and still looks decent, especially at longer range where the actual combat is done and there is virtually zero percievable LOD switching due to fewer LODs and no morphing implemented. That's the direction I wish BIS would take in future patches/versions. More consistent graphics, go easy on super detailed vegetation if it means LOD and performance nightmare, don't focus on all the overdone HDR, bloom, blur etc effects that try to make the game look like a movie. Improve the AI, improve the pathfinding, make player control less clunky etc etc. I would very much rather pay for a new game that does that than one that mainly adds new content.

I fully realize me posting videos isn't going to make BIS change anything so just to be clear, I'm not trying to spam the thread/forum, only want to share some of my further findings on this topic ;) Now, has anyone noticed that certain trees in ARMA 2 actually do instantly switch LODs at certain distances/angles? Then when you move to a slightly different location the exact same LODs will do the switch but with the morphing effect this time. Here's an example, on Sahrani but it can be reproduced on A2 islands too: 4GV3EBnLxzk Notice the tree on the left, it does the usual morphing. X5AIvCV0sUI Moving very slightly to the left and the morphing of that tree is now gone with the same LODs being instantly switched instead! Which of the two changes looks less obvious to you? ;) Now what does this mean? I believe it means the engine is perfectly capable of doing instant LOD switching. The morphing is a design decision so if BIS ever decide to give us an option to turn it off, it is technically doable. It also very likely means the delay is caused by the morphing effect itself ie the time it takes to perform the necessary calculations or whatever it is needed to morph the two shapes together rather than it being a streaming issue. So yeah, at least it seems technically possible. Meaning there is a chance, however tiny, we might see the option in some future patches :)

Yeah, one of the main reasons why I was excited when OA was announced was because I thought it meant better performance and less LOD issues. In a way, the object detail option is a LOD switching "slider" though. It's not so much that I have a problem with actual LODs being switched (although I do believe ARMA of all games should aim for more consistent graphics at higher ranges as well instead of only looking pretty around the player), I realize LODs need to change at some point and that having no LOD changes at long distances is impossible on today's computers. My main gripe is the actual morphing effect where the two LODs blend one into another. Sounds like a decent idea in theory but in practice it is very ugly and makes for 10 times more visible LOD changes compared to instant switching. The only scenario where I can see the morphing being better is when you are driving around but considering everything around you is moving in that case anyway, I don't think there would be much perceivable difference in practice either. For the actual combat, instant LODs seem like a far better solution to me.

I know what you mean ;) but for what I'm proposing it shouldn't matter how many trees per scene are there. Even if there is only one single tree in front of me, it will still do the horribly obvious morphing effect when zooming. Other games with as complex vegetation as ARMA can do instant LOD switching. It is basically a (IMO bad) design decision. It's not even the RMB zoom that annoys me the most. Whenever I try to use a scoped weapon in this game I just shake my head and lose all interest. I am fully convinced if they were to give us an option to simply disable the morphing effect the majority of the players would prefer it that way. I know what BIS were/are trying to accomplish with it but 99% of the time, it does exactly the opposite of concealing the switching of LODs.