cornhelium

Sheer brilliance! Congratulations Laser. Cheers, CH

Hi Folks, Some more on sniper mags. Here's a snippet from the private JAM3 forum: Cornhelium: ...so it looks like Homer has increased the MV beyond RL, in order to make the weapon behave realistically at long range. Using the RL MV, he could still make the bullet hit the crosshair at 900m by zeroing the sights, but the bullet would use an unrealistically arched trajectory to get there. So, Homer has gone for a realistically flat trajectory rather than just plugging in RL figures. Interestingly, it looks like BAS did a bit of the same. Here are the JAM figures: Again, they haven't used RL figures, whereas for nearly all other mags, they have. They also used 938 for the East .50cal round. So it looks like they too dropped RL figures to get a better trajectory. ...so, should we go all the way and use Homer's figures? Perhaps I should add a "high-performance" mag for the .50 cal rifles, using King Homer's approach? Or, maybe tweak the existing .50cal sniper mags? I don't know of any addon that actually uses them yet. Any input would be appreciated. Cheers, CH

Hi Anunnaki, I understand what you are saying friend, but sadly these changes are beyond the scope of JAM3. We want to release JAM3 fairly soon. In that timeframe, we don't have the manpower to research and enter all the different dispersions, muzzle velocities etc. for every AR-15, G3, M14, Kalashnikov, Uzi, MP5, M249, M60 etc. variant/mod out there. ...maybe in JAM4 Â Cheers CH

Hi there, Well, I went ahead and put in the new mag (plus supersonic suppressed version). I also increased the W762_5mag MV from 792 to 800 (mean of real-world M24 and M40 figures). Not certain whether the L96 achieves 914 MV with 7.62 NATO too, or only with the 7.62 Lapua round. But, without doubt, the L96-type rifles (AWP included) can fire at 914m/s. So, I didn't specify "Lapua" in the names - I called them W762_L96_5mag and W762_L96_5SDmag General progress: I'm hellbent on getting finalbeta ready by the weekend, so I can concentrate on exams while betatesters go to work between now and early June. In final beta testing, the big 3 questions will be: 1. New muzzle velocity/AI detection settings for SD mags - do they unbalance any stealth missions? 2. MP - all sound files have now been moved to the JAM_Sounds.pbo, so bullet hit/fly sounds can easily be changed too. Does this affect CRC checking in MP? 3. New AT values - how do they work generally? We'll probably leave the existing rounds unchanged and put the new values into new "Realistic" versions of the same, so existing missions won't be affected. If anyone can help out with this testing we'd be very grateful. We really want to stay focused and get the current feature set thoroughly tested, so that JAM3 will be watertight. In particular we want to make sure that there are no glitches in MP. Cheers mates CH

Hi SuddenDeath, What accent should the English speech be in? American? I could have a go at the English, though the accent might be a bit dodgy Cheers, CH

No Minty - Kooky had it right. I plan to do 1 & 2 together, if people approve  Care to offer your 2 pence worth again mate? (that makes 4 pence in 10 minutes, business is good today ) Cheers, CH

Thanks guys, Hmm...looks like there might be a case for: 1. adding a 5rd "W762 Lapua" mag with MV of 914, for AWP and L96A1 2. tweaking the existing W762_5mag to MV 800 (mean of 823 (M24) and M40 (777)) What do you think? Cheers, CH

Hi Wipman, Great work on these M4s - they look awesome. About MAAM/JAM: MAAM was just preparatory work for JAM3. ....think of MAAM as the egg, and JAM3 as the chicken. Hopefully JAM3 should release in mid-June (simple .rar file). Forget about JAM2's sounds. Default JAM3 sounds are based on the best available from the OFP community...and there will be alternative sounds available too. Cheers, CH

Hi Wipman, Great work on these M4s - they look awesome. About MAAM/JAM: MAAM was just preparatory work for JAM3. ....think of MAAM as the egg, and JAM3 as the chicken. Hopefully JAM3 should release in mid-June (simple .rar file). Forget about JAM2's sounds. Default JAM3 sounds are based on the best available from the OFP community...and there will be alternative sounds available too. Cheers, CH

Hi Honchoblack, Fair comment mate. Also, I guess working with a minimal set off addons has helped you to achieve the great focus on developing the mission itself. Great work, cheers, CH

Superb work Honchoblack! DKM's Havoc is an awesome addon, and could complement the Hind nicely in this mission Cheers, CH

That dropship is looking so very badass. Keep up the great work

EXCELLENT work AGS! It just has such a great vast, remote feeling about it. It's perfect Good luck with your move, and with that Real-Life thingie

Hi there, I've quickly tested these out in-game. Some initial comments: * Units carrying the "Anti-Personnel" rounds seem slower to use them. They'll still pop one off now and again but definitely less often. This might be due to the reduced IndDmg. Reducing the "cost" setting seems to fix this. It's strange that the "AT" and "AA" rounds inherit cost=5000 from the BIS LAW, whereas the cost for "AP" and "ALL" rounds is increased to 10000. * OG-7 (DirDmg20, IndDmg20, IndDmgRng 6.5): Still deadly against infantry, due to the increased blast radius. A lot of fun to use. I might increase DirDmg to 30, as performance against jeeps/trucks doesn't quite feel right. I'll also bump up the IndDmgRng from 6.5 to 7 like the BIS grenade. * PG-7VR (DirDMG 750, IndDmg 38, IndDmgRng 6.8): Deadly against tanks. 1 hit gives a BIS M1A1 system failures. * PG-7 "AA"/"All" (DirDmg 330, IndDmg 17, IndDmgRng 3.4): Knocks AH-1 and UH-60 out of the sky. Half the time the crew bail and survive. Half the time they are killed. AH-64 tends to survive one hit, turn around and whup the shooters Units seem happier to use the PG-7 "All" against infantry than the "AP" OG-7, perhaps due to the much higher DirDmg. Again, it looks like decreasing the OG-7 "cost" setting is the way to get aggressive AI use and keep the damage realistic. Cheers, CH

Hi there, Just picking up an old request from @cero: As far as I can gather, the JAM muzzle velocities for these mags are mostly spot on. Here's a table of them as they are in JAM2: --------------------------------------------------- Mag:           Fired by:     JAM initspeed:     JAM dispersion:   JAM Damage: ====           =======    ==========    ========  ========== W762Sniper_20mag  M21, SR25   853            .00007125       12 W762_5mag       R700, M24,                M40 AWP,                L96A1       792           .00004275       12 W127_10mag      M82         938            .000114       15 E762_10mag       SVD, SV-98    830            .000114       12 JAM_E762_5mag    Mosin          865          .00015        12 E127_5mag       V-94, KSVK     938          .000114          15 -------------------------------------------------- Now, here's all the MV info I've been able to find (in metres per second): ************************ M21 = 853 [fas.org, nationmaster.com/encyclopedia] SR25 = ?800? M24 = 823/824 [fas.org, strategypage.com/messageboards] M40 = 777 [fas.org, strategypage.com/messageboards] AWP = ?? <914 if firing Lapua round [en.wikipedia.org] L96A1 = 914 [hem.passagen.se/inlajn/info/info.htm] M82 = 854 [fas.org, geocities.com/landofsnipers/] SVD = 830 [milparade.com] SV-98 = ?? V-94 = ?? KSVK = ?? Mosin = 850-886 (mean=868) [mosinnagant.net] ********************************* Question: Can anybody fill in the missing muzzle velocities please? If we can get them all, one approach might be to use mean values for mags used by multiple rifles. Or the other way would be to match the existing mags' MVs to the OFP weapons that are currently using them (BAS/ORCS M24, SR25, M21 etc.), then make new mags for particular rifles. Either way, real world data on those missing MVs will make things much clearer. Thanks mates CH

Hi Przez, Doh! Sorry, gave the wrong link. Got the OG-7 info here. PG-7VR here. Effective area is 150m sq. Thus treating it as a 12.25 x 12.25 "box", a circle inside the "box" would have a 6.125m radius. Call it 6.5m for luck  Cheers, CH

Hehe, no probs mate. I should have read yours & SPQRs posts properly. Edited above post with your formula. Direct hit values are now unchanged for West AT, only the indirect values have big changes, which would seem right. Cheers CH

Cheers guys. I've put up the planned AT values here in the CAVS thread. They make pretty interesting reading. We'll have a good kick around with these in final beta testing. If they're too drastic we might leave the existing values as they are and add a new set of rounds/units with the new "real-world" values (aargh, me and my big mouth - keep making work for myself ) Cheers, CH

Hello there my friends! OK - I've done some research into real penetration values and have come up with this: ======================================= # 84mm M136 = Penetrates 450mm RHA ( http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/antiarmor/AT4.html ). Weight 1.8kg # 66mm LAW = Penetrates 300mm RHA, weight 1.8kg (Source: WEG2001 & http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/M72-LAW.htm ) # 105mm PG-7VR = Penetrates 750mm RHA, weight 4.5kg. [This is the  round used for the JAM "AT" rocket] # 85mm PG-7 = Penetrates 330mm RHA, Weight 2.25kg. Also known as "PG-7V". [This is the round used for the JAM "AA" and "All" rockets.] # 40mm OG-7 [This round used for the JAM "Anti-Personnel" rockets]:   Weight 2kg   Effective area 150sqm = 12.25 x 12.25m = 6.5m Indirect Damage radius.   DirDmg: Should be effective against Jeep=20 armour   This squares nicely with BIS handgrenade (hit=20;indirectHit=18;indirectHitRange=7) * PG7-VR / PG-7 / OG-7 info from: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/rpg-7.htm, http://www.fas.org/MAN/dod-101/army/docs/st100-7/chapter03/C3V.htm ========================================= Let's plug these figures into Przez' formula: M136: DIRDMG : Real penetration x 100% = 450 [no change of hit points] INDIRDMG : Real penetration  x 5% = 22 [decrease of 53 for "AA"/"AP"/"All" round, decrease of 258 for "AT" round] INDIRDMG RNG : 1.5 x Warhead weight in KG = 2.7 [decrease of .04] M72: DIRDMG : Real penetration x 100% = 300 [no change for "AT"/"AP"/"All" versions, increase of 175 for "AA"] INDIRDMG : Real penetration  x 5% = 15 [decrease of 285 for "AT" version, decrease of 60 for "AA"/"AP"/"All"] INDIRDMG RNG : 1.5 x Warhead weight in KG = 2.7 [decrease of .04] PG-7VR: DIRDMG : Real penetration x 100% = 750 [increase of 300] INDIRDMG : Real penetration  x 5% = 38 [decrease of 242] INDIRDMG RNG : 1.5 x Warhead weight in KG = 6.8 [increase of 3.7] PG-7: DIRDMG : Real penetration x 100% = 330 [decrease of 120] [increase of 205 for "AA" version] INDIRDMG : Real penetration  x 5% = 17 [decrease of 58] INDIRDMG RNG : 1.5 x Warhead weight in KG = 3.38 [increase of 0.28] OG-7: DIRDMG : Intuitive value, kills Jeep, will hurt Blackhawk = 20 [decrease of 430] INDIRDMG : Based on straight split = 20 [decrease of 55] INDIRDMG RNG : Based on real effective area of 150sq metres = 6.5 [increase of 3.4] These are some pretty drastic changes, but the values seem to make a lot more sense in real-life terms. As you can see, life is gonna get hard for West AT teams, but as Przez says, symmetry is the enemy of art I lean towards using these values for M136 and M72, regardless of the JAM AT/AA/AP/All roles. For anti-personnel, the rounds have lost a lot of power, but still have comparable blast-radius to JAM2. On the East side, the various rounds look nicely balanced to the roles. We'll give these values a good long test in JAM3 final Beta and see how they feel. Of course, the next step is to add more modern and powerful AT rounds to JAM, but I don't think they'll make it into this release. You'll just have to use ORCS/Earl & Suchey stuff until then (...oh, the hardship  ) Cheers, CH

Hi, Just picking up an old request: ...it's already in there (JAM_46x30_MP7_20Mag, JAM_46x30_MP7_40Mag). And now, it has a sweet new sound. Just needs someone to make an MP7 now Also, I've added the Remington SPC 6.8x43mm and Grendel 6.5x39mm bullets, and a selection of magazines representing different barrel lengths, fire modes and ammo counts. SD/HD/Subsonic versions included. Bring on the Barrett M468 ! Cheers, CH

Cheers mate - nice work CH

Hi Minty, This sounds like a damn fine idea - very handy for mission makers. The only resources it would need would be a small .cpp file. So it wouldn't be bloating the JAM filesizes. If you could copy&paste the .cpp and fire it over on PM please, that would be great. Many thanks, CH

Hi Twisted, 1. Yes, exactly. OFP defines all the power and accuracy values in magazines, for small arms at least. That's just the way the OFP engine works - I hope that BIS will change this for OFP2. 2. Hehe, I'm no ballistics expert, but I think we're building on a solid base with the research and tweaking BAS did on JAM2. I have enormous respect for the WGL team and their work, but we don't have the manpower to get it to their level yet. Within the limits of our skills, we have addressed quite a few of the requests that have been posted here, and I'm confident that the release of JAM3 will stir up more interest and bring more skills to the team. Cheers mate, CH

(Stands and salutes) May the road rise with you Drow. Thanks for your contribution to the mighty Unsung Cheers, CH

Hi there, Yep. Also: JAM_AT4ammo    // M136. AI will prioritise armour targets JAM_AT4AAammo  //M136. AI will prioritise air targets JAM_AT4APammo  //M136. AI will prioritise personnel targets JAM_AT4ALLammo //M136. AI will fire at anything with no real priority I hear you GB on the BIS AT weapons' accuracy, but I've never had this problem with the JAM AT stuff. AI are pretty darn good at missing the targets you assign them in my experience Progress continuing. SD JAM weapons like BAS and ORCS-US now shoot great, and with time to take your aim you can reliably pull off headshots at 150m, Tears of the Sun stylee Audiblefire=6 seems about right for the SupersonicSD assault rifles, but for the 7.62 SDSnipers I might bump it up to 7 or 8. Cheers, CH