-TwK-Danny

Finally, i thought it was just me. Yes this bug is here from the 1.02 patch and up. I usually just use flush in main menu when launching the game, but id love to see this fixed aswell :)

I explained what Vsync does and how it delays input. Since you still refused to believe that it causes input lag, i asked you to google it since there are unlimited of threads of people that do notice how Vsync causes lag. Now if you do not notice anything, then it is you that is too slow to notice the diffrence. Or your hardware (refreshrate+LCD monitor responsetime and inputlag, mouselag (regular 8ms mice)) is already so delayed that the extra delay vsync causes is just a small % of the delay you already experience. I mean the diffrence could be you having a system like this: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/longlag.png with me having a system like this: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/inputlag/bestcase.png As you can tell, Vsync will have a bigger % change for me than it would for you. Still, there are many that have mouselag - no doubt about this. You can go on and on about how your system is magic and you do not notice any diffrence whatsoever. Point still stands - people have issues with input lag, BIS is trying to work out a fix, and you are here trying to tell everyone they are wrong.

Yes, i understand, but do as i say. Set CCC to "Off, unless application specifies". If you STILL dont have vsync in blachshark, then its because blackshark does not force vsync on. ArmA2 force Vsync ON, this is the diffrence. No Bulldogs, the cap for vsync on 60Hz is at exactly 60fps. But for example, if you cannot get 60fps (e.g. your system can only get 55fps), then because if vsync it will go down all the way to 30 (exactly 50% of your refreshrate). There are many on this forum that dont understand how vsync works, and I suggest you read this guide as it explains it well for those not really into technology: http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html

What are you still doing here? I already explained everything there is to know, and showed even game-reviewers have issues with this. You dont have it? Fine. Good for you. There are tons that do, and reviews stating the same. And BIS is working to fix this for 1.04 patch. If you notice no diffrence with vsync on/off, what are you doing in a thread about mouselag? Can you please google vsync and mouselag and read up a bit?

Yes but black shark has vsync off to begin with doesnt it? For example, if you set CCC to "Off, Unless application decides" do you get vsync or not?

There is a simple explaination for this. The CCC doesnt have any Vista/7 "workaround". For example, if you disable Vsync in CCC in Windows XP, ArmA2 will also have youre fps above 60. But Vista and Win7 requires a special "hack" to force Vsync off. Nvidia has this built in with their drivers meaning you can disable Vsync by forcing off within their drivers. But the CCC in Vista or Win7 cannot disable Vsync. This is where ATT comes into play. It uses the Vista workaround/hack to force Vsync settings. This is why, in ArmA2, you need ATT to force Vsync OFF.

:D :D Because some people are slow (not trying to be funny here) in reaction times and do not notice any delay or diffrence. For others its a world of diffrence. For example, do you play with a mouse with 8ms (125hz) delay? Many gamers (incl me) use mice with 1000hz polling rate (1ms delay, wich is the best USB can do). And for such gamers, there is a clear diffrence between 1ms and 8ms (~7ms diffrence). Now, when you understand that Vsync delays input by around 32ms, you know that for us that IS an issue. Age also affects this. How old are you, if i may ask?

Yes this works for disabling Vsync. It is however not a perfect solution. E.g. if you change video options (for example AA settings), Vsync will be turned on again. Also some report about unusual performance dips when they use this method, although I never noticed anything serious. Hopefully 1.04 patch will just enable Vsync settings ingame.

Improving performance has nothing to do with it, as explained. Vsync introduces delays despite what fps/performance/system you have under the hood. Even if you have 10fps WITHOUT vsync, you will still have MUCH MUCH LESS delay than with 100FPS and VSYNC ON. Also my system doesnt matter. This performance-review are using quadcores overclocked to 3.6GHZ with the greatest and latest graphicscards (GTX285, GTX295, 4890, 4870X2 etc). And they specifically state: "The biggest problem with performance in ARMA II is input lag and jittery mouse movement." http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/08/10/arma_ii_gameplay_performance_image_quality/5 As for your last comment, ArmA2 already has a max movement speed. I cannot spin around in circles as fast as in "twitch shooters". In those games, i can spin around as fast as i want. But you will notice that in ArmA2, when you try to do this - there will be a limit on the speed, and no matter how fast you move your mouse, the game screen will move at its "maximum" wich is slow and realistic - as you and everyone here want. We are talking about delays in input, not game design. And it doesnt matter if it is a bug, a feature or an issue. Its there and it needs to be fixed.

Its not related to settings. Since settnigs DONT include Vsync options, everything on lowest with MINIMUM draw distance will stll introduce the delayed frames that vsync introduce. And with ATi graphics cards, you cannot turn vsync off via the control panel you NEED ingame options. Besides, you blatantly ignore the fact that the mouselag is still there when you have 60 or even 100 fps in arma2. Loading editor in Utes and looking at the sky, turning left and right there is still lag. And no, i dont need a seconds worth of lag to notice it, sure it might be less lag than when you have 10fps in a town with bots - but its sitll there.

No, it was just missing on the website. I contacted AMD and told them to fix their site so that you could download the DCO again. Hence the recent "updated". So its not new, but the current 1.1.4 version, wich is supported for Vista aswell as XP.

It is a bug, just because everyone doesnt suffer from it doesnt mean its not a bug. Theres a 36page thread on this forum whining about it, and now a they mention it in a PERFORMANCE-REVIEW of the game.

What you are talking about is design. The mouselag in ArmA2 is a bug. Adding 32+ms extra because of vsync buffers is not a design choise for giving the mouse in arma2 a heavier feel. The game still has a "max looking speed", wich means you cant look super fast back and forth - the limit we have now should still be there.

"The biggest problem with performance in ARMA II is input lag and jittery mouse movement." Even they mention the mouselag. Good thing BIS are finally looking into it. And im glad i picked the HD4890, since it seems to wipe the floor with any other graphics card.

Isnt this the regular 8GB ram problem? Do you use the "-winxp" flag in your shortcut to arma2? You need to, as far as i know, when you have 8GB of RAM.

Do you get lowered performance + microstuttering in all games? Do you use the -winxp flag in the shortcut to get sli working (if thats needed in 1.03 + latest drivers)?

But there are many missions during the campaign, where my HD4890 1GB gets exactly the same fps with everything on veryhigh (no AA), 1920X1200 and everything on verylow 640X480. Im talking 24fps vs 24fps - not even 1fps diffrence. That should suggest there is a bottleneck apart from graphics aswell. Anyways, doesnt change the fact that new drivers are always better, and since ArmA2 is a new game, any newly released driver could optimze arma2 performance futher.

I noticed a huge performance decrease. I used to be able to do anything in the editor with high fps. Now, standing in any town, i get around 20 fps and lots of lag i never got before.

Always use latest drivers for a 4890. Every driver released from ATi recently improves performance in games where you are CPU-limited, and ArmA2 is a very CPU-limited game. So just keep installing the latest. For me its patch 1.03 that decreased performance. I used to be able and do anything in the editor with awesome fps, now i get lag by just running around in a small village where i didnt used to get any lag whatsoever...

I tried this, but 125Hz lagged as much as 500Hz and 1000Hz. Why is ArmA2 the only game on the planet that force Vsync and tripplebuffering on? :( 1.03 didnt help, heres hoping 1.04 will...

Try these settings instead: 1600x1200 / 1600x1200 Visibility 1600 or 2000 Object Detail - Normal Terrain Detail - Normal Everything else - Very High AntiAliasing - Disabled (to start with) If You get a much better score, increase your AntiAliasing setting one step and try again until you hit low fps again. Also make sure you disable Vsync ("always off") in the Catalyst Control Center.

Sorry didnt read second page of thread, my post is useless and i cannot delete it.

AA is applied when changing ingame options. However, ArmA2 uses HDR everywhere. Object inside HDR effects will lose AA because of limits in AA and DX9. The only way to fix this is changing the ways you code the resolves - wich is only possible in DX10 (i think?). You can try this in any DX9 game with HDR and AA. Just look at an object, wich should have AA applied to it. Then change view so that e.g. the sun is directly behind the object - and bang, the object will lose any AA applied to it.

Yeah mate, i didnt mean anything i said in a bad way, just informing you how frustrating the situation is for us ATI owners ;)

It is not bullshit, he was specifcally stating ATI graphicscard. It is well known Nvidia uses a special compatability mode to force Vsync off (and it works - just as you said). However, once again, this does not work on ATI cards. What I stated in my post applies only to ATI + WinVista and Win7.