subs17

Maybe BI should make their own missile system with improved features for realism. For a flyable aircraft ideally you want a pit similar to that in Lockon Flaming cliffs 2 with working MFDs. Even better is a clickable pit and perhaps thats the better thing to aim for rather than resorting to a community mod like MMM they should look at it and make an improved weapons employment system based on a combination of the most realisitc sims out there yet simplified enough to work within the engine. eg MMM version 2 with realistic missile logic, radar scan patterns, evasion, employment.

Oa rocks.

Target Designator Cursor. Its the thing you move to lock onto a target like the crosshairs for the ULB when using it to hit targets. Its also the cursor you would use to lock a radar target if doing A/A against another aircraft using radar. So instead of cycling tgts using TAB you would move a cursor to the specific tgt and push lock. ---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ---------- Being the person who started the topic you should be able to edit your 1st post which might allow you to add extra option to the poll.

Did you ground stabilise the image? TOWs are quite accurate IRL I doubt you would be sitting there adjusting much once its lined up. Maybe the lynx is not as good at targetting as other gunships. What year was the sim based on?

I believe that requires the marksmanship principles in order to get a good grouping.

That could be done easily as A2 supports trakir all thats required is to map head movement X/Y axis to the gun.

IRL the helmets are different for Apache, KA50/52 etc. The KA50 helmet has 2 types one for night with NVGs and the other for day which has an optical sight. IRL the optical sight can lock onto ground/air targets and the pilot whilst in a hover can auto turn to target. The Apache has a helmet which has a similar sight slaved to the 30mm gun it also shows IR and is a helmet mounted display. Ingame you could have pilots having to find a helmet to fly the helicopter but its not as big a deal as the FCS. ---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ---------- I'd suggest a compromise for targetting: 1/ Tab can be used to lock but TDC needs to be scrolled onto the radar return. (Helicopters with radar) 2/ MFD view for A/G targetting viewable for both pilot and gunner showing Radar view/optical view. Pilot can see what gunner is aiming at. 3/ Opitical targetting starts with 1st slewing view onto target area, 1st depress of TAB ground stabilises image(view remains locked at that spot), from here TDC cue keys are used to slew tgt cursor onto target.(could be further detail if they added tgt box size which is adjustable, moving target mode to auto track ground targets that are moving{can be used for M1A1/2 etc}. Lase for laser guided missiles or fire for wire guided missiles with further guidance from TDC cursor for TOW/Hellfire laser guided missiles. 4/ TI WHOT/BHOT already modeled in OA. IMO This stuffs probably already possible in OA but expanding A3 to include working MFDs in its 3d pit would be the best way to fit everything tidily ingame and be more functional than the current display.

I will abstain from voting on the above options as they are simply unrealistic. The best would be option 4/ 4/ Targetting view mode with zoom TDC slew, ground stabilise/lock/lase. We already have these features sort of with the little bird whats missing is this view in the Apache/Cobra and ground stabilise/moving target mode. You could also add LOAL and LOBL modes but the above option 4 is the basics and is whats needed for precise CAS for A2/3. Look at A2s JSF mission absolutely useless having LGBs and targetting view. This is also probably possible in A2 OA as a mod but the devs should consider it for A3 as it makes more realsitic use in game and simplifys the combat because you are no longer limited to the Tab auto lock function. ---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ---------- You can buy Thrustmaster MFDs which will work with A2OA if it has the ability to map those functions. BTW all the modes/functions in that video are IRL done with the HOTAS which F4AF/OF supports. For TM MFDs you still have to buy LCD monitors for MFD display. ---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ---------- No they have a big advantage as they can lock the tgt they intend to hit and take it out. On a server you won't have both it would be either one or the other. Advantages of realistic weapon employment: LOBL (Lock on before launch)AH64/Cobra[precise targetting] LOAL (Lock On After launch)[Already modeled in OA but does not feature LOFT mode] Ground stabilised image Engage moving targets Buddy lasing Faster threat engagment Engage tgts from further away, less exposure to AAA/SAMs Less likely to hit friendlys because you will know exactly where they are and where the bad guys are. Faster A/A engagement with helmet mounted sights KA50/52/AH64/Cobra(KA50/52 auto-turn to tgt if modeled) Realistic use of A/A weapons instead of using them to blow up tanks. Realsitic is actually simpler and easier than arcade mode(and faster with HOTAS and trakir).

I think aircraft need more detail in order to make them fully functional on the Arma battlefield and also to bring balance to the sim. Helicopters: Western- Airspeed in knots, Altitude in feet. Gunship- targetting requires ground stabilised image. JSF -requires a targetting pod view, TDC slew, ground stabilise and lock/lase for LGBs/mavericks. Could also use A/G radar with lock and CCRP delivery mode. Requires CCIP sight as well for effective CAS operation for free fall bombs. Requires airspeed in knots, altitude in feet. A/A radar requires a scan pattern and modes TWS/STT plus expand view and range/ azimuth control. All aircraft should have a flight planner for navigation to make them more effective on the Arma battlefield. You could also have a breifing room where flight planning is done and a data cartridge to load the flight plan onto or just an option on the map for this. You also need this NAV steerpoint information on the HUD. Drone needs to fly higher, much higher needs a ground stailised image to lock on a point on the ground and lase.(current campaign missions only ULB is effective for A/G the UAV flys too fast too low so you cannot effectively shoot or look at anything.) Realism can be scalable and trainning missions can be made to train people to fly and use weapons. Thats the fun of Arma as it does that so to expand that further a more realistic complexity won't ruin the game or put people off using it. If the devs make TOH compatible with A2/3 then it expands its possibilitys for mp/sp. Ideally if TOH is possible as a combination to A2/3 then it could allow a clickable cockpit which makes things even more fun for the pilot. Remove auto land or have a server option to turn it off for the jet aircraft. ---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 AM ---------- To make the perfect battlefield would be the size of Falcon4s maps for Balkans and Korea theatres as thats the size of an actual battlefield. The most ideal campaign is a dynamic one like in Falcon 4. A Global map is the most prefered as it opens up alot of possiblitys for conflict between countrys.

But its always good to have the option for those that want it, TOH is standalone so I don't see a problem if they did allow for it to join up with A2/3 for those want to do it.

Its got a good FLIR view and can paint targets what it needs is A/A radar with a radar scan modeled and also A/G radar. Flir view needs ground stabilise in other words you should push lock twice 1st to stabilise the image in then you should easily slew the TDC onto the tgt. This stabilised image should also be added to the M1, LAV etc gun sights as they probably can do that IRL for engaging tgts moving and whilst on the move. Although further detailed modelling would have to include a TGT gate size and the ability to increase and decrease the size of the box.

I've found a Vortex ring state is quite low from hovers at 50m.

There are train simulators out there but how many of them let you get off the train and walk around. Another good idea is a Global map so you could have a whole warfare sim based in a Global map enviroment. A dynamic campaign would fit well on such a map and current PCs can handle a Global map. People could join Virtual units based in their own countrys and virtual wars could be played out between countrys. FSX could support such a mod when the Tacpac is released with its SDK although for a full on MMOG of this type you would want a whole heap of servers linked together.

Eagle Dynamics building is in close proximity to Kamovs building from what I read they had access to all the aircrafts manuals and some actual KA50 pilots. Yes they did also get to get inside the aircraft otherwise the 6dof pit would not be as accurate as it is.(dude there is buttons behind you in that sim! they are everywhere even in the ceiling) Other teams have also gone the extra mile sick bag included Xsi sent 2 developers up in a T38C to see how the real aircraft performed IRL. ---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ---------- Thats true the FM for all DCS aircraft take a year to make for advanced flight model of the KA50 the calculations are done for each blade on the rotor as well as everything else. Their A-10C is based on the A-10C sim they made for the USAF so they are quite serious about flight simulation. Bis are like ED except they make FPS, I compare DCS to A2 with ACE they are on the same level of complexity and no other FPS is on that same level. ---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ---------- DCs is a different market its more comparable to combat helo(the new longbow sim in development). Its inferior probably in detail maybe unless they add hydralics and electrical circuitry to the damage model etc. But TOH has more potential as its target audience does not need to be just civil helicopter sim enthusiasts. If the sim is made MP compatible with A2/3 then it will attract more people to purchase it. The other thing is if it is part of a series for example: Take on Jets Take on Tanks Take on Ships Take on Trains You would have more people using it than just the hardcore helicopter gunship sim crowd which we have in DCS KA50/Combat Helo. DCS has the potential to do the opposite as you can already walk once you eject in DCS so ED might one day do that although tanks, trains and ships are more likely as FPS would require a different engine(eventhough you can already walk around the graphics detail is for a flight sim).

I agree the incentive should be for people to want to purchase TOH to make use of the Helicopter sim and the bonus is the ability to use it in MP with A2/3. With that you would want 6dof clickable pit and use of MFDs/HUD. BI could do the same for Jets as it is the targetting system is arcade for jets but a reasonable addon would allow for such features and increase the popularity of the Sim.(yes I consider Arma to be a battlefield simulation as someone has said the word sim is used although complexity is scalable when you use it to describe a sim) IMO a series of sims that have the MP compatiblity capability will make this very popular and could attract people who usually stick to other sim types. ---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ---------- All of thats possible if BIS decided to approach it with common MP compatibility. Another idea is to allow common MP with another sim like DCS only problem is that it is better to use A2/3 instead because once the pilot ejects he could go into FPS mode unlike DCS which involves shutting one program down or idling it and starting up a 2nd program with FPS mode. ---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ---------- I agree for FAC to work more realistically then you would want the aircraft modelled better. Not so much the FM thats the problem now its a combination of issues. Look at the JSF it needs a clickable pit or at least a TGT pod view for LGBs. And a working radar, with a few features added to the aircraft it could imensely improve the CAS and Air support provided by aircraft. Like the boot camp JSF mission you cannot drop those bombs accurately as there is no CCIP sight in the HUD or tgt pod view for locking the enemy tank. These are not big issues all are probably already possible in A2. As for vehicles if they modeled it in more detail are we talking checking engine oil etc? Thats a possibility with mods like ACE2 there is that possibility I think.

I'm not worried about rivets but I can imagine the difficulty in making a sim of a fictional aircraft the hard part is the FM etc. Some of those aircraft might also be FBW so are they modelling autopilot and trim etc. What about NAV is it going to feature VORTAC, GPS, TACAN etc, Radio freqs and ATC. It would be cool to have ARMA2/3 have a mod that allows helicopters with these features flyable in MP if they expand this there is alot of potential another idea is to allow A2/3 to have terrain of actual places which also feature real life TACAN/VOR/ILS/NDB stations. In DCS there is a radio station and it actually transmits music ingame, you can use it as a NDB and if you blow it up it stops transmitting. Such features are nice and I think possible on todays multicore PCs. I think birds nest though takes the cake as uber realism.:D ---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:54 PM ---------- I no longer have any compaints as I've just flown the preview, awesome work BI.

Awesome work BI the preview is quite good it would be cool to have that FM in Arma2. I also have the impression that it is indeed much more complex than what can be seen in the preview by some of the options.

No they don't FSX does not simulate aircraft 100% particularly helicopters, DCS KA50 on the otherhand models 90% which is quite close. BTW my problem with not using real aircraft to simulate makes it more difficult for BI to model the aircraft. A helicopter simulation requires actual FM data, avionics etc. You can't simulate something that is just imagined to any degree of realism. I'll wait for its full release and see how it goes hopefully if it has an SDK the community could make some decent addons with realistic performance. I don't see any reason why a company would choose to create a helicopter simulator with out first visiting an actual aircraft manufacturer etc to get some solid data on what it is they are trying to simulate. I doubt any aircraft manufacturer would turn down some free advertising for their aircraft in a simulation which could lead to more sales of the selected aircraft.

Nope you are 100% incorrect Arma is indeed an infantry simulator infact its closer to a full battlefield simulator in most aspects. From the infantry perspective it covers most things particularly in the ACE mod. If you compare it to other FPS it is well beyond in all aspects. It even includes the boring bits which is a major feature IRL.:D ---------- Post added at 07:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ---------- You would find its actually easier to fly than A2s FM if done correctly considering all the featured helicopters are modern so most will have FBW. Complexity can also be scalable as well in most flight sims so a new pilot should be able to start off easy and work his way up to more complex operation. The way to master a sim like DCS KA50 is to start off with the basics and learn new stuff as you go. DCS KA50 is very simple to fly(it flys itself with autopilot;)). The weapons in DCS KA50 are also simple to operate with 3-4 buttons to operate the weapons. Not hard the complex aspects are actually ABRIS and the startup(easily bypassed with auto start button).

They have A109s and NH90s on order, Iriquois will be in museums soon.:D ---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ---------- What any sim developer must do is approach the manufactuer of the aircraft they wish to simulate then they have access to accurate FM data and knowledge on the avionics etc. You also need a couple of real life pilots to test the FM during beta testing to ensure the aircraft is accurately modeled. In some cases developers have been sent up on flights to see(Xsi - T38C) how the aircraft handle IRL and get an idea of what it is they are trying to simulate. Making imaginery aircraft hinders development of a simulated aircraft and makes it arcade level which I doubt BI is trying to achieve. Its not just the 3d model that needs to be perfected or the FM its a combination of features as well as capabilitys of the aircraft. The other problem is sales, simmers won't be attracted to an arcade game with imaginery aircraft and thats your target audience not FPS as in Arma. If it models a walkaround inspection with birds nests then I'd be surprised if it were fictional aircraft they were modelling.

Thats bollocks, its a flight simulation and therefore needs a proper simulation of a real aircraft. For actual sim pilots its a big deal since they are the sort of people that study what they fly. If not then its an arcade game so only worthy of a console release. Theres a unique opportunity here for BI to expand A3/A2 into realistic flight simulation if they decided to which merges the most realistic FPS with a realistic heli sim. I think that since A2 allows multicontroller support its a step in the direction away from consoles and in the direction of people who take flying a little more seriously in MP. They are already talking about it on the FSX forums where 99% simmers hang out. And they are not impressed.

If they made the MP compatible for TOH and A3 then it opens up alot of possibiltys as a helicopter with 3d pit/6dof thats clickable makes it the ultimate helicopter for Arma. In the future if they were to do the same for jets etc then it would be quite awesome. My view on such a mod is a virtual battlefield that has players using authentic aircraft with FMs supporting ground troops realistically making the most of the aircrafts ability. Imagine the AH64 in ACE 2 with a clickable pit for a start and working MFDs etc. For realistic combat to be reached does not require a study sim level of detail what it requires is basically something similar to lockon Flaming Cliffs but with clickable pit. The larger the map the better as it allows for more realistic missions. People often mention on other forums what it would be like if Lockons aircraft could be flown in Arma in MP and same could be said of tanks like steel beasts etc although over time A2/3s tanks could reach that level with mods etc. The 4th level is ships but I think that could be achieved with mods bringing them upto Dangerous Waters level of detail but with that requires even bigger maps. Ideally the ultimate FPS/Combat Combined Arms Simulator would have a Global map. Good news is its possible but with levels of detail only in campaign areas and the rest done by either payware or freeware addons. XSi was planning on doing this at some stage but their development is taking a while to reach the 1st release which is Global map, T38C and T6 with full UPT and IFF trainning programs. Its the opposite to BI as they are starting with Jet Combat simulation 1st and then working their way down to Helicopters, tanks, Ships FPS etc.

Awesome, I wonder if we can fly TOH in A2 then could we run around and shoot stuff on TOH maps when it comes out?:D

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=116841&page=40 This looks good.

Freckin sweet we can fly TOH in Arma2OA.