Paratrooper

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Eviscerator @ Sep. 13 2002,20:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ah well, and theres no point going and getting the De Espona models as they are only allowed to be used in renders/3d video's, releasing them in an addon would almost certainly end up with you in court<span id='postcolor'> What court?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Sep. 14 2002,00:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Im glad we are going to charge them. The fuckin flyboy was trigger happy, and he ended up killing friends. Also, his commander should have told him to hold off for confirmation. You cant afford to fuck around when you have live bombs on your wings. They should be punished to the fullest extent possible, then given dishonorable discharges.<span id='postcolor'> Absolutely.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 14 2002,00:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, we could argue israelis/palestinos until we're blue in the face (and we were a couple of times, weren't we), and we would never agree. the mid east is big, and now, since the president admonished the UN to take itself serious again by saying the UN should demand iraq follow some 27 resolutions hussein so far ignores, let's talk about the possible pax uno (or americana) in the region. just a fantasy...: after using afghanistan and several other -stans for decentral mobilization zones, building up forces, america will move on iraq, disabling its military and all wmd-sites permanently. hussein will move underground and fade into irrelevancy. (capture is nary impossible.) an iraqi general who went awol during the gulf war and lived in the US since, will form an interim government with elections soon to follow. iraq will cede territory to saudi arabia. then iran will be taken down. the mullahs leave for europe, (where they will be hailed as freedom fighters against fascist america), and the people elect a leader like in afghanistan. then saudi arabia's corrupt elite will be deposed of for funding terrorists worldwide, and the country reshaped in the image of egypt. the hashemite kingdom of jordan will be transformed into a palestinian republic. if anybody starts another war on israel, that country will then obtain the disputed territories for good as well as ancient gilead west of the jordan river. syria will remain an isolated dictatorship in the region, stabilizing it by forcing the new states to remain vigilant in respect to it, syria's dictator becoming their common enemy, and serving as reminder of the political system they just escaped. like general lehman said: power corrupts, absolute power is really cool! any takers? <span id='postcolor'> What a bizare fantasy. Is that what you expect or want? Or both?

Think how envious western politicians must be of Musharaf, he can just say what ever he likes and no voters to worry about!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 12 2002,06:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What the hell were they THINKING??<span id='postcolor'> "If we have this what the **** has Russia got?!"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 13 2002,01:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is not just an American phenomenon .I think it is a general rule of media that you never show your own citizens mutilated or dead. I think however that it is bad. It somehow gives the impression that the lives of other nationalities are less worth.<span id='postcolor'> We always consider 'our own' to be more important; in the same way the death of your mother say, while unfortunate, would not affect me in the same way as the death of mine would. And visa versa.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 13 2002,01:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I remember reading that they did not want to show the American public to much footage of D-Day becuase of all the Americans that died. If they want to show em fine if they do not fine, I really do not care.<span id='postcolor'> Most of the D-Day film was destroyed in a rush to develop it! There was hardly any to show.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 12 2002,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 12 2002,21:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Sep. 12 2002,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, but terrorists do it intentionally. Intent does have a factor.<span id='postcolor'> Very true, America for all it's faults does not intentionally kill innocents. Accidental deaths as part of a war have nothing to do with the justness of the war.<span id='postcolor'> What are accidental deaths? If you carpet bomb a city, are the civilians killed there 'accidental' deaths?<span id='postcolor'> Irresponsibility is also wrong, but needs must in war.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Sep. 12 2002,20:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, but terrorists do it intentionally. Intent does have a factor.<span id='postcolor'> Very true, America for all it's faults does not intentionally kill innocents. Accidental deaths as part of a war have nothing to do with the justness of the war.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 12 2002,20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If it was up to me I would relocate the people of Plaestine to another country.<span id='postcolor'> How? Relocate them in the east? Give Israel more living space? That is exactly how the Nazis thought! Not how the victims, the Jewish nation thinks. And not a way foreward! The entire Arab world would erupt with anger.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 12 2002,17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thats what I have been saying for the last few pages, we need to keep religion ot a minimum in the problem, and we need both sides to learn to live with each other.<span id='postcolor'> That is a great idea! There is a problem though, it is Israel's land, and Plaestine supports the killing of innocent civilians.<span id='postcolor'> You tell me then DoR, what might make the Palestinians stop? What is your peace plan. You have heard mine so lets hear yours. As you keep posting you must have thought about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 12 2002,07:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think religion shoudl be kept out of this thred, but it might be hard. Religion is a major factor in the current problem in the Middle East. Is not all about Religion, but it does have a key role. Israel claims the land due to religion, Palestinia want them out for religious reasons.<span id='postcolor'> Religion is one thing but history is another. The Jewish people did live in the area, but not alone. They lived alongside many other peoples.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Sep. 11 2002,23:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Peace and love to all who suffered on the day the world died.<span id='postcolor'> The world has been dying for a long time. It just arrived late in America. I wonder how this new sense of vunerability will affect the American psyche long-term.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no , but i can put a detonator in your pants back on topic please<span id='postcolor'> Naaah, nevermind i'll be happy just to shut up Anyway, back to topic as you said. I only hope one thing, and that's that whatever will happen, it'll happen in the US or in Irak. I don't feel like going through a lot of shit! Â Especially not if it isn't Belgium that fucked it all up (is that possible?)... Bah, i don't appreciate an attack on Iraq but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen. Â As i said, i just don't want to get involved in any kinda way....<span id='postcolor'> I don't think Belgium's legions will be needed somehow.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Sep. 11 2002,16:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,15:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Bible says nothing about 'it all being theirs', it isn't and never was.<span id='postcolor'> It says it in tons of places and defines the borders as well. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can see the 'high water mark' of Solomon's Kingdom does not have it all.<span id='postcolor'> Um... The red and pink areas cover east of the Jordan as well, which includes Judea and Samaria. The yellow, the Phillistines (no relation to today's Palestinians other than a possible ancestorial coincidence here and there) is today's Gaza Strip and thereabouts. Argh! I've gotta break the habit of responding on this thread.<span id='postcolor'> My point is that the land has always been shared. The Jews lived along side many other peoples.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not said that everyone feels opressed....<span id='postcolor'> Saddam Hussain is a brutal dictator.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 11 2002,04:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,03:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There will be no carpet bombing of cities, little urban resistance and a poorly equiped and trained enemy. Deliberatly endangering your troops is a conscious act, and wrong. Accidental deaths are just that. There is a significant moral difference.<span id='postcolor'> Are you using your crystal ball to tell this? It is naive to believe that Iraq lacks trained and equiped soldiers. Â And in an urban situation, even an untrained soldier in an entrenched position can inflict heavy casualties on an invading force. Â As much as we might all want to believe that the average Iraqi will gladly embrace the west 'liberating' them, I think any US campaign in Iraq will involve a lot of pine boxes landing back in CONUS. I am not saying that is a good thing, or right. All I am saying is that without being willing to inflict a great number of civilian deaths in collateral bomb damage, the US had better go into Iraq with a willingness to take far more casualties than they have since Vietnam. And we all remember how the US public reacted to 19 deaths in Mogadishu. Â How will they react to the hundreds or thousands that will come in street to street urban fighting over the space of weeks or months?<span id='postcolor'> Where were the well trained, drilled and equiped troops in the Gulf? Why will an opressed people defend their opressor? I very much doubt it. We shall see though.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Sep. 10 2002,15:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Sep. 09 2002,21:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's look for a moment at which countries have (relatively) large armed services or were involved in post Vietnam conflicts: US Russia China UK Germany Israel Iraq Taliban Why so little Israeli, Chinese, or Afghan stuff? But in general, more addons, especially ones people might consider using, are good.<span id='postcolor'> You can add India and Pakistan to that list. Â I think there are addons of Pakistanian military. -=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'> There are hardly any good British units! Considering the amount of action they see it is surprising. Again bibmi is making some.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 11 2002,02:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Sep. 11 2002,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kurtz, if you get even half of what you want, you are bigger than NZ military and police combined in terms of firepower <span id='postcolor'> If I had one T-90, I would have more fire power than the NZ Army. The NZ army blew up all their Scorpion Scout tanks becuase they didnt want them anymore, we only have outdated anti-tank weapons, and a few Mavericks for our ageing A-4's.<span id='postcolor'> It isn't very fair to Australia though is it? Didn't NZ withdraw from some of the ANZAC squadrons?

I feel deeply for the victims, let's hope we as nations don't allow ourselves complacency again, as hard as it may be to be alert permanantly.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 11 2002,14:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can not talk about religion on this board. <span id='postcolor'> Lets not talk about religion then, because the Jews did live there. It is history. They lived alongside many others, ever heard of the Philistines? The 'Land isn't property of the Jews'. It is an area which they now, and once shared with others: The Bible says nothing about 'it all being theirs', it isn't and never was. You can see the 'high water mark' of Solomon's Kingdom does not have it all. The land must be shared and kept holy to those who hold it holy, by peace.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 11 2002,03:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Sep. 11 2002,03:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 11 2002,02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only way for an invasion on Iraq with little civilain casauslties is if the Americans are willing to take casaulties. They will have to cut out the weeks of bombing, and instead go for a few bombing missions in unpopulated areas. The Americans would then have to fight larger numbers of enemies, therefor taking more casaulties. Personaly, I would prefer to see more dead Americans, than Iraqi civilians. Soldiers go and fight volunteeringly, Iraqi civilians do not get a choice wiether they are bombed or not.<span id='postcolor'> Maybe you will think differently when you country's soldiers are fighting along side our soldiers. That was an idiotic thing to say.<span id='postcolor'> Quite, deliberately endangering your own soldiers is disgusting, not at all preferable to the unfortunate accidental deaths in bombing.<span id='postcolor'> So you are advocating bombing of the very unarmed civilians we are supposedly trying to help by ousting Saddam? Great. The point is well made that the US is going to suffer heavier casualties in urban areas where there are larger concentrations of civilians. Â And it's not just a matter of dropping leaflets and saying 'Get out, we are going to bomb here' Â These are those peoples homes. Â So you bomb the hell out of an urban area, and kill a lot of civilians in an effort to get the soldiers that might be holed up there as well. Â So what is the balance? Â Because if you start dropping bobms into urban areas, you're going to create at least one more generation of people who see the western world as evil... and thats going to be without Saddam ever saying a word or making a comment about it.<span id='postcolor'> There will be no carpet bombing of cities, little urban resistance and a poorly equiped and trained enemy. Deliberatly endangering your troops is a conscious act, and wrong. Accidental deaths are just that. There is a significant moral difference.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Sep. 11 2002,03:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 11 2002,02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The only way for an invasion on Iraq with little civilain casauslties is if the Americans are willing to take casaulties. They will have to cut out the weeks of bombing, and instead go for a few bombing missions in unpopulated areas. The Americans would then have to fight larger numbers of enemies, therefor taking more casaulties. Personaly, I would prefer to see more dead Americans, than Iraqi civilians. Soldiers go and fight volunteeringly, Iraqi civilians do not get a choice wiether they are bombed or not.<span id='postcolor'> Maybe you will think differently when you country's soldiers are fighting along side our soldiers. That was an idiotic thing to say.<span id='postcolor'> Quite, deliberately endangering your own soldiers is disgusting, not at all preferable to the unfortunate accidental deaths in bombing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 11 2002,03:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Laws in democracy are easily bent to the will of the corporations, but no worse than any other system.<span id='postcolor'> Freedom is not intrinsically good, when it is the freedom to do anything, it makes no moral judgement.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 11 2002,02:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The folly of Democracy.<span id='postcolor'> What do you mean?