Paratrooper

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 17 2002,05:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Sep. 16 2002,20:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Didn't anyone see that Janes article posted here a little while ago? I remember it saying that the SA80A2 is still a bad weapon. G36 all the way.<span id='postcolor'> Here is a quote from HKPro: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">9.13.2002: Â The apparent rumors of the SA80A2 Â being still unsatisfactory are untrue. Previously reported by Jane's and the London Telegraph, links to these articles removed.<span id='postcolor'> No further information is being provided, and even though Jane's is highly respected and very reliable, the story appears to have been false.<span id='postcolor'> I did see the SA80 post Can, but this is new. Yes I was also interested to read that the SA80 A2 is still ok. I don't trust the Telegraph on military matters as they just don't know anything about it. I think there were 3 jams in Afganistan which could have happened to any gun and in a number of ways. I think the SA80 is worth working at. After all if it is still faulty then they can bloody well go back to HK to whom we paid Å92 million!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 17 2002,04:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In Australia we are ruled by the Liberal party which actualy means Racist, G. Bush loving, Money making, poor hating party. They work for the rich and spit on the poor.<span id='postcolor'> You sound like the Labour party of the '80s; they were out of government for 18 years, by the way.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Sep. 17 2002,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,17:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Sep. 17 2002,02:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go with the M-16... Its cheap, readily available and reliable. Plus we probably have thousands upon thousands of them lying around. Ammo would be cheap and plentiful because it uses the same ammo as the SA-80 and you have interchangable weapons parts with one of your allies. I say go with something thats proven ... the M16A2<span id='postcolor'> I would agree with you, but I think a few things need to be considered; A British owned company (like H&K) would be more appropriate and support jobs. Also when the SA80 is replaced it will have to last at least 20 years, it needs to be as up-to-date as possible while using proven technology. Or so I see it.<span id='postcolor'> Chances are that by the time a contract is awarded, it won't be British-owned anymore. Negotiations are underway to sell H&K to a group of German investors, and the deal is nearly done.<span id='postcolor'> I don't expect the SA80 to be replaced. The A2 hasn't had any major flaws and should be worked to perfection.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Sep. 17 2002,03:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes but the M16s would be dirt cheap. You do have a point though, Unemployment is rediculously high in UK...<span id='postcolor'> No it is one of the lowest in the west.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Sep. 17 2002,02:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go with the M-16... Its cheap, readily available and reliable. Plus we probably have thousands upon thousands of them lying around. Ammo would be cheap and plentiful because it uses the same ammo as the SA-80 and you have interchangable weapons parts with one of your allies. I say go with something thats proven ... the M16A2<span id='postcolor'> I would agree with you, but I think a few things need to be considered; A British owned company (like H&K) would be more appropriate and support jobs. Also when the SA80 is replaced it will have to last at least 20 years, it needs to be as up-to-date as possible while using proven technology. Or so I see it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Chill @ Sep. 17 2002,02:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here in Australia we are governed by the USA. If the USA says jump we ask " how high". I really fear the day when USA is toppled over and Australia is on its own, we will be punished for the actions of the US. <span id='postcolor'> That simply isn't true though is it?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ Sep. 17 2002,00:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm a communist, my brothers are communists, my parents are communists, and my grandparents were communists. Â <span id='postcolor'> What is the world coming to...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Sep. 16 2002,21:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">he's not french , he comes from Quebec <span id='postcolor'> Where do you think the people from Quebec came from? Â <span id='postcolor'> What does that make the rest of you? Scottish?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,21:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do the parties line up in terms of Europe?<span id='postcolor'> All blue (right wing) except Centern are clearly pro-EU. All red (left wing) except the Social Democrats are anti-EU Was that what you meant?<span id='postcolor'> Right. Do you expect thr referendum to return a 'yes' vote this time? On the Euro that it.<span id='postcolor'> I expect and hope for a yes. Now the "yes" side is in majority. btw. What do you mean "this time" - we have never voted on it before.<span id='postcolor'> Sorry I was thinking about Denmark!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,21:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do the parties line up in terms of Europe?<span id='postcolor'> All blue (right wing) except Centern are clearly pro-EU. All red (left wing) except the Social Democrats are anti-EU Was that what you meant?<span id='postcolor'> Right. Do you expect thr referendum to return a 'yes' vote this time? On the Euro that it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,218)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We just had elections in Sweden yesterday. The (left) red coallition won (unfortunately). The parties we have is: Blue (right) block: Moderaterna (m), conservative (European type conservative, not American) Folkpartiet Liberalerna (fp), liberal Kristdemokraterna (kd), christian/conservative Centern ©, farmer's party Red (left) block: Socialdemokraterna (s), socialist Vänsterpartiet (v), former communist party Miljöpartiet (mp), environmentalist party I voted for Folkpartiet (liberals) as usual. The result of the elections? Unfortunately the red coallition will stay in power: It was a record low turnout at the polls this time, only 79% <!--emo&<span id='postcolor'> Am I right in thinking your Liberals represent a right wing libertarian style party?<span id='postcolor'> Yes, in Sweden it is considered to be right wing. I am sure however that our most right wing party, moderaterna would be considered communist in the United States. It is all in the eye of the beholder <span id='postcolor'> How do the parties line up in terms of Europe?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 16 2002,21:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We just had elections in Sweden yesterday. The (left) red coallition won (unfortunately). The parties we have is: Blue (right) block: Moderaterna (m), conservative (European type conservative, not American) Folkpartiet Liberalerna (fp), liberal Kristdemokraterna (kd), christian/conservative Centern ©, farmer's party Red (left) block: Socialdemokraterna (s), socialist Vänsterpartiet (v), former communist party Miljöpartiet (mp), environmentalist party I voted for Folkpartiet (liberals) as usual. The result of the elections? Unfortunately the red coallition will stay in power: It was a record low turnout at the polls this time, only 79% <span id='postcolor'> Am I right in thinking your Liberals represent a right wing libertarian style party?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Sep. 16 2002,20:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,19:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He has damaged the credability of Parliment severely.<span id='postcolor'> Because of course Tory politicians were always pure as the driven snow and were never involved in any kind of sleaze whatsoever were they?<span id='postcolor'> I wasn't talking about sleeze, as long as there are politicians there will be corruption. No, I was talking about his paranoid media driven governing style.

I am a Conservative, I will be very glad when Blair is replaced. I hate his closed, media manipulating stlye of government. He has damaged the credability of Parliment severely. I will be glad when we have a conservative government willing to be tough over public services and tax.

We are lucky that the Egyptians wrote so much down. If they had been helped by 'Aliens' to build the great Pyramids then they would have written about it!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Sep. 16 2002,17:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 16 2002,16:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Starflight for the sega Megadrive. Starflight.<span id='postcolor'> heh, when you think of it, how Electronic Arts started out w/ games like that, now its one of the largest game devlopers in the world.<span id='postcolor'> They never improved on starflight.

Starflight for the sega Megadrive. Starflight.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 16 2002,02:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If most come form one country then you should takea look at that country. <span id='postcolor'> But they don't. America, Britain, France have all produced terrorists. Your point is moot.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 16 2002,01:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Paratrooper when are you on MSN messanger? I sent you PM but you did not respond. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote  most of the 911 killers were saudis. all they have down there is oil and islam. That is just pointless, insulting too. What does it matter which country they were from? <span id='postcolor'> It matters becuase that means that that country has terriost problems. <span id='postcolor'> There have been terrorists from almost every country in the world!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 15 2002,23:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">saudi arabia is an entirely different matter. It's rulers are corrupt. They are buying off threats to their hated rule by funding the most extremist religious fanatics around.<span id='postcolor'> Any evidence for this? </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in mini-mini-bosnia alone they invested 800.000.000 $ in mosques and other islamic activities. <span id='postcolor'> Why shouldn't they help fellow muslims? Would you object to churches? </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">most of the 911 killers were saudis. all they have down there is oil and islam. <span id='postcolor'> That is just pointless, insulting too. What does it matter which country they were from?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 14 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 14 2002,00:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 14 2002,00:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, we could argue israelis/palestinos until we're blue in the face (and we were a couple of times, weren't we), and we would never agree. the mid east is big, and now, since the president admonished the UN to take itself serious again by saying the UN should demand iraq follow some 27 resolutions hussein so far ignores, let's talk about the possible pax uno (or americana) in the region. just a fantasy...: after using afghanistan and several other -stans for decentral mobilization zones, building up forces, america will move on iraq, disabling its military and all wmd-sites permanently. hussein will move underground and fade into irrelevancy. (capture is nary impossible.) an iraqi general who went awol during the gulf war and lived in the US since, will form an interim government with elections soon to follow. iraq will cede territory to saudi arabia. then iran will be taken down. the mullahs leave for europe, (where they will be hailed as freedom fighters against fascist america), and the people elect a leader like in afghanistan. then saudi arabia's corrupt elite will be deposed of for funding terrorists worldwide, and the country reshaped in the image of egypt. the hashemite kingdom of jordan will be transformed into a palestinian republic. if anybody starts another war on israel, israel will then obtain the disputed territories for good as well as ancient gilead east of the jordan river. syria will remain an isolated dictatorship in the region, stabilizing it by forcing the new states to remain vigilant in respect to it, syria's dictator becoming their common enemy, and serving as reminder of the political system they just escaped. like general lehman said: power corrupts, absolute power... is really cool! any takers? <span id='postcolor'> What a bizare fantasy. Is that what you expect or want? Or both?<span id='postcolor'> honi soit que mal y pense, I had hoped, paratrooper, that you might pick up the train of thought and subtract from, or embellish it on your own. present your own idea of a middle east scenario for the next few months and years. definitely more entertaining than your one line spam responses, without which this forum would not be any poorer.<span id='postcolor'> I asked you a question. My response would be determined by that, not a jibe and not spam. I assume you would answer that it is what you expect. I expect no change in the Middle East. None. Saudi Arabia and Jordan have very stable monarchys. Which is good for the region considering the dangerous elements moving in the Arab world currently.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 14 2002,14:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is no country that stands that has not made the smallest of mistakes, and there is no army that has not done something wrong in its history, weither it be a FF accident that should have no happened, or execution of POW's etc.<span id='postcolor'> Exactly denying it serves noone. The evolved strategy is to learn from the mistake.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">217 pages, and the arguments still haven't progessed?<span id='postcolor'> Please don't spam this thread, as you can see there is enough waffle in it already!

Palestinians don't have to 'leave Israel'(sic) Israelis need to leave Palestine, move the settlements!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 14 2002,01:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Absolutely.<span id='postcolor'> You forgot to add NOT. <span id='postcolor'> Your problem is you don't want to admit America is ever wrong. I am a conservative and patriotic, but my God, Britain makes mistakes and I'm willing to admit it.