Paco454

I'm not surprised you jumped on him, in fact I was expecting it like fly paper, just like you jumped on me when I made a simular post bashing BIS. BIS released ArmA game so full of bugs that to suggest, "well all games come with bugs" is a gross under statement. As I suggested BIS used the community, those German and Czech customers as beta testers and lead the community to think the game was finished and polished when in fact it was bug ridden to an extremely high level, touching off a high level of complaints and concerns over the BIS's motivation. BIS knew about the grossly under stated bugs and released anyway, a very sneaky and under-handed ploy. On the topic of the author's message, no publisher in the US would allow a game to be sold under their label with such a high level of bugs, perhaps this is why 505 games didn't start to sell the game earlier as it may have asked the game be brought up to certain standard so as not to make 505 games look bad for selling a bug ridden piece of junk. Moreover, as BIS has said before "they are gamers who make games for gamers and not publishers". As with most publishers today, especially those in the US, they put such high demands on the game makers, like demanding it be console compatible or demanding they add this feature or request they remove this feature, in most cases, these demands cause delays in getting the game out and also result in the game being changed to suit the publisher. In effect the game maker gets put on the bus, "do it our way or no way". A form blackmail. BIS wanted no part of it and I don't blame them. The author makes valid points. BIS should have come to the community and ask for our help first instead of leading everybody to believe otherwise. Poor managment and very poor communication along with poor marketing of a weak un finished product. Nevertheless, BIS will continue to work to address all the bugs and will in the end polish the game in which I have no doubt, but how they get to that point will always be a point of contention. PACO454

Seems like a lot of work, just to use a joystick. Nevertheless I'll give it a try, I just hope I don't accidently unplug my keyboard, mouse, ekeys keyboard, camera, printer, or any other USB devices I have plugged in. It's a jungle back there since all my wires are hidden, go through holes in my corner desk. It will take time to figure out which USB is what device. PACO454

Ah don't listen to him Dwarden. Hall monitoring is in his blood. He just had nothing better to do than wine on your thread because he doesn't like the idea. Were dealing with an older, or some have said and updated OFP engine, with that comes limitations. I'm not sure they can allow the engine to use more sounds but I support your idea for higher number of simultaneous sounds to make a better experience. I understand from other sources that a new engine supporting (Dx10 hopefully) is being developed which will be used in the next version of this title, however this maybe years away. PACO454

From previous posts BIS mentioned, on systems with more than one stick installed the joystick it selects by default is the one with most buttons and axis's. During some testing by me, I found this not to be case. My Saitek x52 has more buttons and axis than my G25 racing wheel, yet the the game always defaults to the G25. I've tried PPjoyjoy and FranknStick to create a virtual stick with more buttons and axis but because it simulates a serial joystick with polling the game refuses to default to it. I have contacted a company that used to make a virtual USB joystick, however they don't support the software anymore and the software is no longer available for download. However, I have asked them to look into what I have called a "unified virtual USB joystick". The goal here is simply enough, to make a "global virtual joystick" which looks at your "all" your game controllers and then allows you to combine "all" your sticks into one stick, seen by windows as the defualt, with the option to force it to be seen as the default. From my discussion: "In effect, to be able to combine all my sticks into one virtual controller making it possible for any program to use any buttons or axis's from any installed controllers and this controller been seen as the default or have the option to set it as the default." This would make games which only support one controller have the ability to use any or all controllers, their buttons and axis's. There is a need for this." It seems logical that since many people have more than one controller that someone should make a program to combine/unify them so any program can use any button or axis from any stick installed. I will continue to pursue this and will post back with any information I get. PACO454

Was the problem added to the bug reporting wiki? Just wondering? By the way thats some system. PACO454

I would like to tell you, BIS is going to add multi joystick support. I did recieve information to that effect. "When" is not clear but they are going to add this feature due the number of requests in a future patch. PACO454

This is an open discission I'd like to start on the subject of the Czech/German version bought by customers who have to convert to it english. When the english version comes out, is it possible for BIS to provide to the community an option for those who want the english version to trade in their Czech/German version for an English version? Or when patches are released could there be a special patch made for those who have the Czech/German version be able to completly converted their version to english so further patches for the english version can be used with out having to do any converting? Suggestions: A coupon to downlaod the english version as a trade in or A special patch to do a complete conversion to english so future english patches work without having to do any further conversions. I think the second option would be easier. What do you guys and gals think? BIS what is you opinion on this? Can we work something out? PACO454

Childish and immature even for you Sniper Skull. PACO454

"You keep mentioning that this conversion is going to happen with or without BIS's help, then why are you seeking their help? " Personally I couldn't care less. I'll convert it like everybody else. I was just looking to see if a unifed way to address the issue could be made, to make the process a little easier. PACO454

Useless dribble once again and off topic. PACO454

I started this thread as a disscussion to simply look for a streamlined approach since it's going to be converted with or without BIS's help. This is disscussion on ways to unify the situation, not a pissing post to piss on those looking to get an english version. ""I don't think that the Czech and German publishers are going to give you a refund so you can give the money to a different publisher"" is valid point. This would never happen and is moot. There are at least 2 people in this thread who wish nothing more than cause trouble and use this thread as their personal pissing thread, however the majority have responded with good ideas. So far the intelligent remarks are "to buy the english copy", which is obvious and the next one seems to be a good idea, would be seen as a courtesy to those who have already contributed by purchasing the Czech/German versions and would not interfer with Czech/German publishers and that was from fubarno1: ""offer an exchange process for those with none English copies say 50% discount, then they are making it more likely for current ArmA owners to purchase a copy from them rather than sticking with their patchable none English copies. It would only require BIS to write an update that would allow the none English versions to be changed to true English versions, and you purchase a new CD key."" This is the type of intelligent responses myself and others are looking for. Off topic responses like "ludricous" and "worst idea ever", "nothing to discuss." are not welcome so go away unlees you have something useful to contribute. So if you have something intelligent to post then post, if not don't bother posting. Thanks to all those who responded in an intelligent manner. PACO454

Ya that would be the obvious thing to do, but there are those who might not be able to afford to do it or, simply won't. That's why I'm looking at this as a matter of courtesy for those who contributed already by purchasing it. It's just a pain in the butt to have re-convert after each patch and so I was looking to make it easier, again as a matter of courtesy for paying customers. Thank you for your response, PACO454

Yes I would have to agree, but how about a courtesy patch since it was BIS that has created the situation. After all, I see no reason why BIS could not have made an english version available when they released it in czech/german. BIS knows there is coverting taking place, I just would like to see the process made easier for those who have contributed to BIS by purchasing it as a courtesy to it's customers. The bottom line is, those who have to convert, most likely will not buy a new english version when,the english conversion will be made and will be available for "free." I''m just looking at ways to make the process better for those who must convert as a matter of "customer courtesy." Thanks for the response, PACO454

Your comment is welcome but only the first part. Your entitled to your opinion and I will accept that, but the second half of your remark is not within the topic {You should have waited for the english version if you want it and only it, genius} and is a personal stab at me YET AGAIN!!! Frankly, I don't care what you have to say. This is not a pissing post for those who are waitng for the english version! It is a discussion about the best way to have a converted english version since there are plenty of people out there running the converted versions. If you have something intelligent to post on topic, then post, if not don't bother posting Mr. plaintiff1. PACO454

Good comment, but I fail to see what difference your comment makes, it's being converted just the same. I'm simply looking for a streamlined approach since it's going to be converted with or without BIS's help. Thank you for your comment. PACO454

I do believe I did e-mail them but it wasn't to the "support" e-mail address. I'm just glad I got a response. PACO454

YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES!!!!!!!!! I DID IT!! I GOT A RESPONSE!!!!! "Thank you Suma" for responding to this very important question. There are many people including myself that are looking forward to this important feature. Again thank you for responding. P.S. As you now I've been some what critical about BIS, I will be less critical and more supportive towards your goals of making ArmA the best it can be. Keep up the good work. Cheers, PACO454

There is no need for a comment like this and I concider it spamming. The topic of this thread is support for usb multi joystick support and not a spamming thread for those who see no need for it. So if you have something intelligent to post then post. If not don't bother posting. PACO454

I may not be the brightest guy around but I have to admit, I think I been taken for a ride by BIS. Let me break this down into several categories, first the amount of time to given to the hype before it’s release, second the videos that were released and finally the interviews. Time: The hype before this game was released went back years in advance. BIS spent years, it appears, making the game. Plenty of time to do it’s work. One would think after years of development the game would be polished, tested and optimized. Pre- release videos and interviews: Apart for the few chopper videos the game looked polished. Even the intro videos showed vehicles turning on roads, no indication of any real problems, in fact it looked very good. Interviews made it also appear to be polished. Now here’s the truth as I see it. The chez and German version are released and now the cats out of the bag. It’s clear to me that something is very wrong. It looks as if BIS intentionally mislead people about the state of the game. I draw attention first to the intro videos see when launching the game. There is no way those vehicles made the turns around the bends as they do in the video with AI behind the wheel. I’m sure the intro video was recorded using real people driving during a multi player session. The AI in game when following way points stop at every way point then continue on their way, so the AI were not driving in those videos. Next the flight models. How could BIS see fit to release the game when chopper controls were so bad, not to mention the fixed wing aircraft which were almost impossible to fly. (Seemly fixed in v1.02 yet still some issues with controls) This brings into focus now a very long list of bugs the game had when it was released. The BIS bug reporting WIKI and the BIS forum is chalk full of complaints and people reporting all kinds of bugs. Collision problems, AI walking through walls, other AI issues, sound problems, video problems, controller problems just to name a few are among a very, very long list of hundreds of bugs. I’m having trouble understanding that BIS wasn’t aware of all these problems given the years of development, moreover, the fact really none of these issues were seen in any of the videos, although some issues were seen and it was assumed those would be corrected which evidently were not fixed at it’s release. Collision issues are so bad some AI tanks, when bumping into each other, can send tanks flying 200 feet in the air. BIS can’t tell me they didn’t know about these problems. From this information I conclude that BIS intentionally released ArmA in beta form as part of a money grab. Intentionally lead people to believe the game was in good working order through videos and interviews, when in fact it was still in early beta and was absolutely bug ridden and did very little in house testing, then setup a bug reporting WIKI and used the people who bought the chez and German version as unwilling beta testers to work out the bugs. A far as I’m concerned, I do believe the community, if it had been informed there were staffing issues or other problems with the game in which it wasn’t feasible for in house testing that they informed the community they would release the game for sale as a beta and then asked the community to help work out the bugs, I could understand and even support, however this method of misleading everybody is unacceptable, and I think a class action suit should be filed against BIS for intentionally misleading the owners of the German and Chez versions. These owners should be given a full refund and then compensated for being involuntary, unwilling beta testers. There is no excuse after 6 years of development for something like this to happen. They have simply mislead everybody to highest possible degree and then took their money under cloak of deception and then setup a forum and WIKI to use as "their" platform to work out it’s problems at the expense of paying customers. I will certainly think twice before buying another BIS product. Don't get me wrong I like the game, I just don't like the BS. PACO454 Unwilling, Forced Beta Tester.

...and this, I'm afraid, is just bullsh*t. If you have something worth posting, then post. If you don't, keep away until you do Mandrake5. You obviously didn't read the above post on the subject, Quote from me "As far as suing in a class action suit, I believe I went too far with this statement. I take it back on the grounds that emotions were running high and I felt cheated. Not to say I still don't feel cheated, I do still feel cheated." End quote! PACO454

This program is useless for ArmA at least for me. I have Logitech G25 Saitek X52 Logitech Wingman FF (unplugged) Situation: This program although it appears to be able to assign x and y axis to my G25 for driving and x and y for the X52 for flying, the game still see's the G25 as the default joystick. Eventhough I can assign the virtual joystick to ID#1 Conditions: Virtual Joystick- 8axis 16 buttons--ID#1 G25- 8axis 23 buttons--ID#16 Saitek x52- 14axis 34 buttons in 3 modes, 2 POV, Throttle hat, Mouse x/y axis--ID#15 By all rights according to armored sheep's response that "the game defaults to the joystick with most buttons and axis's", it should by default, use the X52 because it has the most axis's and buttons but it doesn't. The game picks the G25. I must assume the information provided by armored sheep is wrong and incorrect. Therefore the utility is useless for me because the G25 is being defaulted by the game. It may work for those who have less buttons/axis's on their controllers but for those like myself the program is useless with ArmA. Nevertheless I'm back to square one, looking for and asking, with all due respect as a paying customer, will you "BIS" please acknowledge whether or not, with a simple "yes" or "no" will you add multi joystick USB support to ArmA. I'd like to remind BIS the only information it has provided to us, the paying public was by armored sheep which simply stated the obvious, that ArmA only supports one joystick at a time and the additional information about which stick it chooses seems to be incorrect, leaving the community with only one piece of useful but not really useful information, "The game only supports one stick "which as everybody knows", "we already knew that". So in effect, BIS has failed to respond on this issue and in my view, with anything seemingly remote enough to indicate any real intelligence on the subject. The word "conspicuous" comes to mind. I think I should rename the the thread to "Polly wanna a cracker?" It's like pulling teeth. PACO454

Forget PPjoyjoy Frankinstik ect.., been there done that, simulates serial ports with polling. Extemely bad with USB, furthermore, even with, as armoredsheep explained the game will use the stick with the most buttons and axis's by default, you could have 40 axis and hundred buttons as the virtual joystick and the game will still default to a USB stick, even if the virtual joystick is assigned to ID#1. Most people use USB joysticks as this is the norm nowadays, however some may have luck with the above programs if their sticks are serial, even so, the game may still default to another stick besides the virtual one created. Nevertheless, USB multi joystick support is needed for this issue to be resolved and I again ask BIS to please respond with a "Yes Or No", will you add the feature to ArmA? PACO454

There is a dedicated thread about this started by me. Please use this thread and make it clear to BIS, you want this feature and support me in this fight to have the feature added. Tell your friends and make you voice be heard. Use this link, http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=56191 PACO454

There is a sensitivity adjustment now in the .ini file. In this thread http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....sitivty as it contains all the information on how to adjust this. The yaw (rudder) as you desrcibed has been submitted as a bug because it's banking instead of spinning the tail around as it should and should be fixed in the next patch. PACO454

I'll repeat myself for the billionth time.. ... Undestood, and stand corrected as I mentioned about the how much time had to make the game. As far as suing in a class action suit, I believe I went too far with this statement. I take it back on the grounds that emotions were running high and I felt cheated. Not to say I still don't feel cheated, I do still feel cheated. Even today my request from BIS to respond to the issue of multi joystick support goes unanswered, that in combination with what I conciderd to be an "unacceptable" level of bugs is not proper even for a game like this. Like I said, had they come to community to at least let us know the game state was below par, things might be different, however there are good responses to say, that would kill their bottom line as so I agree. So like a double edge sword it must have been difficult for BIS to make the choice to release the game knowing full well the state of the game was extremely buggy. Nevertheless, I feel cheated as a paying customer. As far as me leaving, no I'm not going anywhere, and I'm sure most bugs will be fixed and I will continue my fight to have multi joystick support, but I do think BIS should communicate more openly with the community given they sold us out to buy time to fix things. After all, if they're going to use us as beta testers, I think they should be talking to us more since the coffee they're drinking came from my/your pocket. Thanks again for all the responses, PACO454