Oligo

Ahh, we seem to have reached a consensus. First time I've seen it happen on these forums.

The new war movies made by Hollywood have all sucked. The best U.S. war movies are the previous generation Vietnam movies like Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Tour of Duty and so on. In these movies yanks take the approppriate amount of casualties (VC and NVA take way more as they did) and everything is totally fucked up like it is in war.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 01 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for unsuccessful missions look at the episode "Replacements" that is about Operation Market Garden, that was a failure.<span id='postcolor'> Yes, this episode especially pissed me off. The operation was a failure and they managed to skim around the issue and portray it as a some kind of half-victory. In the end, they of course retreat nicely to their trucks and drive away safely. There was no footage from "the highway of hell", laden with 88 paks, where the advancing XXX corps got stalled. And I thought those paratroopers were riding with the tanks of XXX?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Aug. 01 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I didn't get that impression at all. On the contrary from BoB I got the impression that the Allied soldiers dropped like flies.<span id='postcolor'> There are a lot of allied casualties, but the germanskis are really buying it. It's nowhere near 1:1 kill ratio.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ Aug. 01 2002,11:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What are you talking about? In the opening scene of SPR there are so many dead U.S. GI's on the beach. The tide is red from their blood. How bout when that MG42 opens up on the landing craft and takes out all of the GI's inside like a can of sardines. Or when Cpt. Miller reports to the Batallion commander and gives him a casualty report. About 1/4-1/3 of his company was wiped out in a single battle.<span id='postcolor'> In the real Omaha beach battle, first waves of yankees were almost COMPLETELY wiped out. Here is a story of company Able: ABLE Company riding the tide in seven Higgins boats is still five thousand yards from the beach when first taken under artillery fire. The shells fall short. At one thousand yards, Boat No. 5 is hit dead on and foundered. Six men drown before help arrives. Second Lieutenant Edward Gearing and twenty others paddle around until picked up by naval craft, thereby missing the fight at the shore line. It's their lucky day. The other six boats ride unscathed to within one hundred yards of the shore, where a shell into Boat No. 3 kills two men. Another dozen drown, taking to the water as the boat sinks. That leaves five boats. Lieutenant Edward Tidrick in Boat No. 2 cries out: "My God, we're coming in at the right spot, but look at it! No shingle, no wall, no shell holes, no cover. Nothing!" His men are at the sides of the boat, straining for a view of the target. They stare but say nothing. At exactly 6:36 A.M. ramps are dropped along the boat line and the men jump off in water anywhere from waist deep to higher than a man's head. This is the signal awaited by the Germans atop the bluff. Already pounded by mortars, the floundering line is instantly swept by crossing machine-gun fires from both ends of the beach. Able Company has planned to wade ashore in three files from each boat, center file going first, then flank files peeling off to right and left. The first men out try to do it but are ripped apart before they can make five yards. Even the lightly wounded die by drowning, doomed by the waterlogging of their overloaded packs. From Boat No. 1, all hands jump off in water over their heads. Most of them are carried down. Ten or so survivors get around the boat and clutch at its sides in an attempt to stay afloat. The same thing happens to the section in Boat No. 4. Half of its people are lost to the fire or tide before anyone gets ashore. All order has vanished from Able Company before it has fired a shot. Already the sea runs red. Even among some of the lightly wounded who jumped into shallow water the hits prove fatal. Knocked down by a bullet in the arm or weakened by fear and shock, they are unable to rise again and are drowned by the onrushing tide. Other wounded men drag themselves ashore and, on finding the sands, lie quiet from total exhaustion, only to be overtaken and killed by the water. A few move safely through the bullet swarm to the beach, then find that they cannot hold there. They return to the water to use it for body cover. Faces turned upward, so that their nostrils are out of water, they creep toward the land at the same rate as the tide. That is how most of the survivors make it. The less rugged or less clever seek the cover of enemy obstacles moored along the upper half of the beach and are knocked off by machine-gun fire. Within seven minutes after the ramps drop, Able Company is inert and leaderless. At Boat No. 2, Lieutenant Tidrick takes a bullet through the throat as he jumps from the ramp into the water. He staggers onto the sand and flops down ten feet from Private First Class Leo J. Nash. Nash sees the blood spurting and hears the strangled words gasped by Tidrick: "Advance with the wire cutters!" It's futile; Nash has no cutters. To give the order, Tidrick has raised himself up on his hands and made himself a target for an instant. Nash, burrowing into the sand, sees machine gun bullets rip Tidrick from crown to pelvis. From the cliff above, the German gunners are shooting into the survivors as from a roof top. Captain Taylor N. Fellers and Lieutenant Benjamin R. Kearfoot never make it. They had loaded with a section of thirty men in Boat No. 6 (Landing Craft, Assault, No. 1015). But exactly what happened to this boat and its human cargo was never to be known. No one saw the craft go down. How each man aboard it met death remains unreported. Half of the drowned bodies were later found along the beach. It is supposed that the others were claimed by the sea. Along the beach, only one Able Company officer still lives -- Lieutenant Elijah Nance, who is hit in the heel as he quits the boat and hit in the belly by a second bullet as he makes the sand. By the end of ten minutes, every sergeant is either dead or wounded. To the eyes of such men as Private Howard I. Grosser and Private First Class Gilbert G. Murdock, this clean sweep suggests that the Germans on the high ground have spotted all leaders and concentrated fire their way. Among the men who are still moving in with the tide, rifles, packs, and helmets have already been cast away in the interests of survival. To the right of where Tidrick's boat is drifting with the tide, its coxswain lying dead next to the shell-shattered wheel, the seventh craft, carrying a medical section with one officer and sixteen men, noses toward the beach. The ramp drops. In that instant, two machine guns concentrate their fire on the opening. Not a man is given time to jump. All aboard are cut down where they stand. By the end of fifteen minutes, Able Company has still not fired a weapon. No orders are being given by anyone. No words are spoken. The few able-bodied survivors move or not as they see fit. Merely to stay alive is a full-time job. The fight has become a rescue operation in which nothing counts but the force of a strong example. Above all others stands out the first-aid man, Thomas Breedin. Reaching the sands, he strips off pack, blouse, helmet, and boots. For a moment he stands there so that others on the strand will see him and get the same idea. Then he crawls into the water to pull in wounded men about to be overlapped by the tide. The deeper water is still spotted with tide walkers advancing at the same pace as the rising water. But now, owing to Breedin's example, the strongest among them become more conspicuous targets. Coming along, they pick up wounded comrades and float them to the shore raftwise. Machine-gun fire still rakes the water. Burst after burst spoils the rescue act, shooting the floating man from the hands of the walker or killing both together. But Breedin for this hour leads a charmed life and stays with his work indomitably. By the end of one half hour, approximately two thirds of the company is forever gone. There is no precise casualty figure for that moment. There is for the Normandy landing as a whole no accurate figure for the first hour or first day. The circumstances precluded it. Whether more Able Company riflemen died from water than from fire is known only to heaven. All earthly evidence so indicates, but cannot prove it. By the end of one hour, the survivors from the main body have crawled across the sand to the foot of the bluff, where there is a narrow sanctuary of defiladed space. There they lie all day, clean spent, unarmed, too shocked to feel hunger, incapable even of talking to one another. No one happens by to succor them, ask what has happened, provide water, or offer unwanted pity. D Day at Omaha afforded no time or space for such missions. Every landing company was overloaded by its own assault problems. By the end of one hour and forty-five minutes, six survivors from the boat section on the extreme right shake loose and work their way to a shelf a few rods up the cliff. Four fall exhausted from the short climb and advance no farther. They stay there through the day, seeing no one else from the company. The other two, Privates Jake Shefer and Thomas Lovejoy, join a group from the Second Ranger Battalion, which is assaulting Pointe du Hoc to the right of the company sector, and fight on with the Rangers through the day. Two men. Two rifles. Except for these, Able Company's contribution to the D Day fire fight is a cipher.

We are what we are, because we have developed to be like this. We act just like other animals do, it's just that we have more means to an end. Greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousness, they're all survival traits which have developed through selection. It's only because currently we have so much that we can afford kindness, generosity, etc... If life became an everyday struggle for life for every man again, we'd abandon all the good tendencies in a second and go back to a wolfpack mentality. Do not blame man for what he is, for we have not chosen it ourselves. On the contrary, with the inheritance each of us has (the animal brain screaming for lust, greed, selfishness, hate, anger, jealousness), I'm surprised how much "good" we can accomplish in this world. It's surprising how many people have managed to overcome their primal selves.

And if Hitler had died in WWI, who would have stemmed the tide of Stalin's armies?

The weirdest shit I've ever seen people drink is called "miesbooli". The recipe is quite simple: -1 l of absolute alcohol (96,9%) You can steal it from any lab. -3 l of water -2 packages of sausages chopped up to little pieces Mix the ingredients and incubate in room temperature for two hours. Have a laugh. It's so horrible I have hard time believing that somebody actually drinks it, but they do. Anyway, when I want to get plastered in a hurry I down Hot Shots, Salmiakkikossu and lager. In an hour I can be totally ass-upwards. If you want to try salmiakkikossu yourself, dissolve two big bags of Turkish Pebers to a 0.5 l bottle of 25% or so vodka. Enjoy cold.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 29 2002,09:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Really? You can detect so small objects with normal radar? That must require a shitload of energy being emitted to get such resolution. I'm not sure that they are constantly pumping out that much power since it can't be to healthy for those around <span id='postcolor'> It a normal radar designed for counterbattery tracking. You can pinpoint the enemy firing positions before his shells have landed. If you want to read some finnish propaganda, here you have it: Propaganda And about the power outage of that thing... Well, remember this:

That's a good point. The yanks probably have counterbattery radars in their bases though, so they can return fire before the first shells have landed. On the other hand, the talebs could fire from civvie villages and then the retaliating yank shells would waste civvies and much heat would be handed out by the press. Dammit, I should be a guerrilla commander.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ July 28 2002,12:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know what, this is starting to sound a bit like Vietnam. 'US patrol ambushed' 'Wounded choppered out'. Next we will be hearing 'sapper attack on US military installation' 'Mortar attack on Air base' 'More Marines deplyed to deffend against guerilla attacks', not good.<span id='postcolor'> There is a term for this. It's called "Occupation Attrition" and it's what the yanks are experiencing in Afganistan and the Israelis in the trouble zones. Perfectly normal for an occupation campaign.

"One week after the op a particular woman experienced severe pain in her abdomen. She went back to the doc for a checkup. Only then did they discover that they had left a part of the child's corpse inside her, making her a living tomb. She came to me 10 years after the fact, still haunted." Sounds really scary, but I think she remembered the diagnosis incorrectly. Menstrual process gets rid of much worse crap than leftovers of a first trimester fetus, like the whole epithelial lining of the uterus. More likely they had accidentally left a part of the placenta in place and so her body still hormonally thought she was pregnant (placenta produces pregnancy hormones), causing complications. You got to remember that the female body has a natural mechanism for abortions. If the fetus is unfit for life, it spontaneously aborts and is flushed out with the epithelial lining and placenta, which looks like normal menstruation. "Others are haunted by memories from the sucking sound of the "vac" aborting their cell lumps. Others turn frigid, presumably in an attempt at self-punishment. Others expect and accept negative turns of fate as punishment from God and lose all ambition, cry a lot." Much of this is probably caused by the preaching hypocrites, who try to make the whole issue sound somehow wrong. "The traumatizing effect of abortions on the female psyche is well known in medical circles, but hardly anybody speaks about it. In my esteem the reason is that a whole industry exploits the "right to choose" nowadays. They remain silent for monetary reasons. To be honest would hurt the checkbook of many doctors." Then you'd be glad to know that in Finland we also have a public heath-care system and abortions are included to that (they're free). The doctors do not get any more money if they do abortions or not. Furthermore, when abortions are performed here, the woman is also informed about the depression it might cause. They can then make an informed choice. And we actually have quite a small number of abortions, because youngsters know how to use birth control. "So, I'm against abortion, not just because God doesn't like it, but because I like women. (My wife in particular.) God is against it, because he likes people in general." And because you don't like it, you want nobody else to do it either. I however think that abortions should not be forced, but there should be a possibility to choose. "(Imagine Jesus would have been aborted!" Then god would have made a mistake in choosing the mother of his child. I thought god does not make mistakes?

Here's a little competition to lighten this thread up. Look at the two quotes in my signature. Can you guess how each of these quotes symbolizes each side of the Middle East conflict? If you can guess this, I'll give you a virtual banana.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Turkish @ July 25 2002,17:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But to those of you who don't think a fetus is a human being, I say this: You must not have kids, because anyone who has been through a pregnancy can not, in all truthfulness, say that a fetus is not a human being. Â I have ultrasound pictures of my son and my daughter. Â At 5 months into the pregnancy, each of my kids had a distinctive profile. Â I could see their little noses and eyes, and I have a picture of the bottom of my son's foot. Â You can count the tiny toes in the picture. Â The "fetus" has a fully-functioning body by 11 weeks. Â All the organs are there, and they only grow during the rest of the pregnancy. Â The baby has a complete nervous and circulatory system (meaning that they can feel pain). Â They have fingerprints. Â Dude, a baby that small could stand on your fingernail, and it has fingerprints. Do you know what abortions do? Â I mean physically. Â Do you know how abortions work? Â There are two primary methods for aborting babies. Â One is the saline method. Â They inject saline into the uterus of the mother, which basically burns the baby alive. Â Their skin hasn't been exposed to the open air yet, so it's much more fragile and sensitive than ours. Â Have you ever gotten battery acid on your hand? Â Or hot oil? Â It's the same thing. Â And because they have a fully-developed nervous system, they can feel all of it. Â The other common method is the suction method. Â They basically put a vacuum nozzle inside the mother and suck the baby out. Â Usually, it rips the tiny human apart first, but it gets the job done. Â <span id='postcolor'> You're simply wrong. And it's easy to explain why: First of all, abortions are only done during the first trimester of pregnancy, that is, the first three months. Also, abortions are PREFERABLY done as early as possible, meaning that if you intentionally wait two and a half months before going for it, they might not do an abortion even if it is still legal. So we will limit our discussion to first three months. Like you said a fetus has a fully functioning body at 11 weeks. Actually it has a fully functioning body from 0 weeks on, because a non-functioning body will die. All the organs and nerves are there at 11 weeks. But the size is that of a mere fingernail. That's the problem. You claimed that the nervous system of the baby is complete at 11 weeks. This is totally not so. It's a question of size. The nervous system of a 11 weeks old is like that of an ant. The reason for this is that you cannot fit a more complex nervous system to a being the size of a fingernail, because all eukaryotic cells (the cells of multi-celled organisms) are about the same size. That means that the cells of an ant are the same size as the cells of a human. Thus, the nervous system of a 11 weeks fetus has about the same number of cells as that of an ant, because you cannot FIT more into it (ever wondered why humans are the size they are? This is the answer.) During the further development of the fetus, the cells divide (as do the cells of the heart and so on) and eventually produce a nervous system of humane complexity. This happens way after the first trimester. The fetus can feel pain if an ant can, which I doubt. The saline method of abortion does not "burn" the fetus alive. Saline is a term for 0.9% solution of NaCl. And dude, our body is made mostly of saline, just like the fetus is. Our cellular fluid is saline based. Our blood is saline based. The amniotic fluid that the fetus swims in is saline based. The saline method just flushes the fetus out. What comes to the suction method, well, you just suck out an ant.

An asteroid of this size is probably an Extinction Level Event or an ELE or affectionately "Ellie". Global climate change will knock us off the box. We're all doomed.

That reminds me of "Thin red line". There's the one soldier who keeps on blabbering about his wife or girlfriend (literally) for hours. It's annoying beyond any reason. "You're my love, the only one, I love you so much, blah-blah-blah." Then in the end of the movie, the soldier gets a letter: "Sorry man, I found an another man. Ta-ta!" I laughed my ass off! It suits that moron just right. Teaches him not to blabber for hours about some cunt...

The pro-lifers (even the name of the movement is so cheesy) always talk about murdering babies. But they are not babies that get aborted, they're mere undeveloped fetuses (remember there is a limit to how old fetuses can get aborted). These are just sacks of cells without a complex nervous system and after all, the complex nervous system is what makes you a human. A good analogy to think about is that even insects have more developed nervous systems than an abortable fetus. Yet we squash flies without second thought. Pro-lifers, get a life.

Check it out if you don't believe it.

Yeah, it's funny how they ridicule everything with equal zeal. They even totally ridiculed the 9/11 thing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 24 2002,07:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scout informed me that if anyone fauled up in the IDF word got out pretty fast. That might be so. But its still not good for people to claim they know what is going on based on the fact that the IDF is a "real" military organisation. Real militaries do bad things to.<span id='postcolor'> If somebody doesn't believe this, read the "Military Stupidity" thread. Militaries are supposed to be the most efficient kind of organizations, but from my experience they are even more fucked than universities.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ July 23 2002,18:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I disagree with you. Â Market Garden was a bold plan. Â And it really only 'failed' by a few miles. Â Like any operation on that scale, there WERE some fuck ups (radios that didnt work, crashed gliders keeping them from linking up at Arnhem Bridge, etc) but over all it was a very well executed plan, and awfully daring.<span id='postcolor'> The few miles were laden with 88 paks and a SS panzer division. Might as well been a hundred miles. The greatest fuck-up was to initiate the operation at the first place, especially since intel photos showed a resting SS panzer division in the area. The brass dismissed these photos with this sentence: "Those are broken up or don't have fuel." Right.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ July 23 2002,11:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont cry during movies. But I will give you this: The most affected Ive been by any film would be the Band of Brothers series.<span id='postcolor'> They are showing it in Finland at the moment. It's surprising how many Tiger tanks they're encountering. I didn't know that germans even manufactured that many. I also dig the fact that they described Operation Market Garden as a "bold plan that failed" instead of the complete fuck-up it was. Anyway, I'll go back to playing Panzer Elite. I have U.S. tank platoons to decimate with my Panther...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ July 23 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I actually thought Wing Commander was quite good<span id='postcolor'> I hope you're joking... That's one of the worst movies I have ever seen. I loved it when they fired a "broadside" at the kilrathis...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gollum1 @ July 22 2002,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Meindl Tunturisusi... "Tunturisusi" means (roughly) "Tundra wolf" in Finnish, so I think it´s wierd that a German company manufactures them.<span id='postcolor'> Yep, it is weird, but that's the way it is. Meindl IS a german company. I think that Tunturisusi-model is a special adaptation of Meindl's Island-model for finnish conditions. Thus they labelled it with a finnish name.

This morning there was a car bombing in Helsinki, Finland. It even made it toCNN. It was probably just some criminals blowing each other up as retaliation or something along those lines, but I can just see how all these frightened people are going to go ballistic (again) and demand more security. This is just great for our Minister of Interior, Ville Itälä, who likes to use the public fear and always demands bigger police force and so on. I guess he can again get some laws passed, which increase governments grasp of the people.