LennyD

... nearly 4kg and the great .303british cartrige Looks great Lt HuNTeR!!! As usual

What? .... how many have died of "offenseation" by these cartoons then? In thousends please. Evil danish terrorists disguised as cartoonists Blair is in Berlin this morn to meet "ironface" Merkel Not officialy on the list..but all observers think the cartoon-problem and the "social-peace" will be part of the talks, too.

Want to read the entire story? -> http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2006....ce.html Great guys.. BTW: There is a portrai of Mohammed on the US supreme court. Next to Justinian and king Charlemagne. Muslims..DO NOT CLICK!!!! OFFENSIVE!! There has been a try to demand a removeal in 1997...but the US simply said s.t. like "get lost".

Israeli group announces anti-Semitic cartoons contest! -> http://www.boomka.org/ ... you have to love the israelis. Best answer to the bs going on. We schould put up a christian contest here to.. Watch the iranian side, too -> http://www.irancartoon.com/ WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - SPEECH IN 1899 posted at militaryphotos.net (found by SPOR) http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72728 ...I certainly wouldn't have to guts to do that...just try to catch up what some of the muslims say. They wheren't far from beeing lynched the "peacefull islamic way"...gee, they are allowed to demonstrate, but can't stand oposition Edit: WARNING: The cartoon-contest-sides linked here may contain pictures that could offend you. Due to the frequently changing content it is not possible for me to guarantee non-offensive content (well, as far as the level of tollerance seems to be quite low with some people....these ppl should just stay away from the links). So if a funny man with a blasting device on his head is to much for you...DON'T visit the links provided here.

No need to be... no leader or section-leader of a human chain has a shield...i bet you know Replied to your PM...won't give more details. With the details given you should be satisfied. Don't ask me to give you me shoesize. Find these investigative questions quite disturbing. We had the old police type gear. The stuff you posted is the new type (not the old plain green crap). It still leaves quite a lot of your body exposed. Neck, inside of the arms and upper legs. Replied to the PM...with a due sence of regret and suspicion... Training is one thing...the real situation s.t. different. I don't belive anybody telling he has no fear in those situations...the difference betwen a trained soldier is that he dosn't freeze and acts acording to training. Lenny out.

What do you expect? That bloke has done nothing right in his "rign" (exept from cleaning up visa-scandals). But generally that's the center-left point of view. Wonder why intire europe falls now....so afrait of riots like the one in france last jear??? Gee...they relly have us at our b....ottoms now Any intel on the danes leaft indonesia in a hurry???

I can't tell how it is DRIVING through a "stone-shower"...just know how it is standing in the 2nd row without a plexi-shield and recieving one outside a car. We certainly didn't throw any back...clearly not allowed and impossible when you have more than one person giving you he good news. To tell you the truce i don't really feel comfortable while getting stones on the helmet. The first one that hits an uncovered spot (you don't run round like the invincible michelinman) really hurts, the second one even more...the third one makes you just think "what the **** am i doing here?". And i bet as soon as you see a bloke liteing the cloth sticking out of a bottle you really want to be somewhere else... What do you mean by radom fire? Something like the "pling" of a bullet hitting an APC you are hiding behind? You constantly search the hill for the attackers while you can hear "thump"...a nother bullet going into a sandbag ...Yes, i must admit i really was afraid. I know, people like you don't feel any fear and would rather stand up and take a surf on the beach apocalypse now-style...(no comment) I better just stop now and rest my case, getting carried OT here

Where's your problem? If i can't trie to make my view of it clear just because s.o. sees it different...we all should rather move to iran So we have an agreement that up to this point it has been a normal reaction? Great!....the rest is rather tricke. I haven't been there and i do think that they rather trie to get away. Like i posted before...who knows if they had weapons. I have learnt to be agressive and contain the situation...until you have total control. So if the move around you simply stop them. If they could draw a weapon you prevent that. The point is that neither you or me where there to jude if they reacted hostile while beeing taken into the barracks. As i see it it was a little to agressive but nothing against the human rights bill....like i posted before, they where not searched jet and where still a possible threat, the wheren't handcuffed and to me they looked like trieing to resist. But it just might be better to let the investigations decide what was right and wrong. I can't be sure from here, neither can you. It is not...and it's not like you wount feal any impacts like rambo in a soft spring rain. Stress and tension are enormous....

Just to , m8t:First of all according to the Geneva Convention non-leathal force is legal to put down riots..or as form of mob control. But that's b****t here, cos these guys "captured" where NOT pow's at any time. They where prisoners in terms of executive-duties the forces commit. And the convention clearly states what actions are allowed to contain law and order among the non-combatants in a warzone. Read it! The men arrested where part of a riot and (as you can see if you look propaly) still tried to resist the arresting. Do I have to quote the "stupid rules of engagement" (let's take the ones used by KFOR in former juguslavia)? You clearly are allowed to use force as long as there is resistance. Please read them before you refer to them. If you take these rules by the word the answer to stones and incendiary material is teargas or rubber projectiles. Stones are one step beond the phase of "deescalation"....use of force is clearly allowed (even recomended to split up the riot). Non of the men taken was beaten handcuffed ot tortured. That would have been totaly different. Look again and you will see, that they stoped hitting the one lieing on the floor and NOT resisting...the others seem to still trie to get away. They where not searched yet and could have even pulled out a consealed weapon I don't want to say that it was the right reaction...but it wasn't a totaly wrong one (if you take the laws). Abart from this bloke holding the camera and making fun out of it... There wasn't any torture what so ever. Clearly the force involved could have been less....but again this is similar to nearly every demonstration we know. Just think of the singer "campino" who got the good news from a pliceman a few jears ago...there was less reason for the use of force involved there. Or december 05 in paris... how many footage of this kind can you find via googel? C'mon... Don't stop forgetting that these soldiers hat been ATTACKED Don't compare riot controll in a small town in the hills of god knows where to the situation in a (more or less) warzone like iraq. Rules of engagement where followed to a certain point...do you relly want to argue about 2 or 3 hits more or less??? These "boys" tried to harm the soldiers first. Clearly the squadies could have stoped batting them...but the mob could have stopped trieing to stone the soldiers to death. The british forces still have (had) the law enforcement role...and clearly the right to use force against a riot and in terms of controlling arrested persons. We had more serious stuff going on while arresting albanians who where smuggeling guns 6 years ago in kosovo....but the problem is that all the wiseguys screaming "tortue" loudest never ever get out of their chair and feel what is going on in those situations I bet if 100 or more people trie to stone you to death or set you on fire you wouldn't be able to contain you self at all...don't want to know how many of you would rather just shoot. The reactions might well have been a little to much...but nothing against the human rights bill (see police- and lawenforcementrules). EDIT: WATCH the video....the one in the sandcolored pants is on the floor and soldiers hold him doen..nothing happens. He tries to move and gets a good kick.... normal reaction. Anyone been in the forces just recall your training. And everyone having no clue about it should rather think twice 11 hits for "mr black tshirt" till he stops moving and resisting - after that no more beating The one in blue only gets 5 and 2 kicks, plus some poking to lie down....after he does no more hits ...

Overreaction? Naaa....If they attacked the executive authority (that's what the forces are there) they earned the few sticks on their backsides they recieved. Problem is that (as usual) it is turned around 180° by some idiots in offices, who never had to stand infront of a mob Non-leathal punishment is totaly conform with human rights as a method of riot-control or penalization in trouble areas... Have you ever watched riot-controls at football games??? If that is torture what the squadies did, then you will see a lot of "torture" during the woldcup here in germany. I can link a police video from a nuclear-transport which demonstrants tried to stop by force. There was more batting involved there...but this may offend s.o. or what?

Well, this is starting to get moronic. Obviously every ultra right webside pics up all of this now to push the anti-imigrant-feelings. But what else do you expect from those illeducated nitwits...i put them on the same step as the muslim extremists. I don't now the webside and what they posted...but IF they start shutting down websides just because of these cartoons we start moving to systes of censoring, shown in china for a long time...or in the iran now. This IS censorship... What about websides showing the beheading of someone....they should be closed before. A mad, dancing banana for the freedom of speech in sweden

...just stept over this one -> http://bigpharaoh.blogspot.com/2006....ad.html BEWARE: This joke contains the words "allah" and "muslim" and might insult sensitive extremists in their monochromatic view of the world. Every ultra conservativ religious slaughterer or suicide bomber "to be" should consult his doctor before reading this. My pers. favorite are no 2 and no 10 Sadly not realy a joke... But here's a last one for you: Imagine we cut down the freedom of speech and press freedom... do you think it would help the muslims living here??? It would ban a very popular newspaper (foreign) read a lot by the people in my neighbourhood strait away. I must say i like eisa01's post more and more....let's just dump religion and stick to human rights

Sadly just for us "Krauts", "Fritzes", "Jerries"...or whatever, but I'll post them anyway. Just found an interesting "FAQ" in the german "Financial Times" -> http://www.ftd.de/pw/in/45971.html This german articel is very nice to... -> http://www.taz.de/pt/2006/02/06/a0132.1/textdruck A female tv-jornalist takes her "insults" made by extremists and goes sarcastic sorry no translations ...couldn't find any and i had a long, hard day (try googel, or maybe s.o. cares to translate it...i think the articel hits the bullseye) EDIT: done by google leaving you alone to correct it ...only a small part of the article.

First off all why can't the paper refuse to print something? Same with politics...you have one newspaper favouring that party and the next writes more or less affectioned to the other party. Nothing new...as well as there are some newspapers (wrote about it in my last post) that rather favour nonsens extremists gob of all day So basicly there is no problem at all printing what they want to...if they want to start printing the pope with a bomb on his head, a m16 in one hand and a can of coke in the other...fair well (exept form the coke maybe...due to copyright)...if they refuse to it's their decession. I can't really belive that norway is that different from the other nordic states. If your friend is charged for drawing a poster, i would be mostly suprised. I remeber some kids (all black dressed and looked a bit like the leadsinger of the band "the cure"...we call them "grufty") burning a cross and singing "god is dead...we hate god" on a playground near oslo. Was around 1998 while i was on holiday there....so i don't believe that norway is that religious Please tell me why the protests started now and not during ramadan?!? The cartoons have been postet before and aren't new to the muslim comunity...with exeption of the 3 the imams from denmark added on thier trip to create some anger. In reality these people should be taken to jail for causing the riots. They created all this on purpuse. They spread false stories, added pics with a totaly different meaning, agitated the muslim masses and are responsible for the violance. There has been no reaction what so ever as the cartoons where printed in Cairo...so they can't be offencive. The truth is rather that some storytelling idiots constructed it all. THAT however is far away from expressing an opinion..it's incitement of the people. Turn it like you wish...but in any case i can't see any fault by the newspaper. If the cartoons realy where that offensive there would have been reaction before. And even if they are that offensive (can't be possible...as explained before) they are still an expression of pressfreedom and freedom of speech. IMO there is no other way of putting it...but here again we all are free to have our own opinion (which would be different if we would let some people make the laws )

THATS more like what i read...sounds completly differnt now, doesn't it? We can roll it out for another 300 posts. Added up at the end it still stay a legal expression of opinion. Wenn you take western standarts it isn't offensive (look at all the jesus paintings...the don't offend anybody so that they turn mad). Even if they offend some people, these people have lost their right to protest simply by taking violent actions no sensible person can tollerate. Spiritual leaders not doing anything against it or rather heating things up, can't claim any simpathy anymore. Religious protest is ok...put it has to be peaceful. Religious rules are fine to...but they have to stand back behind the bill of human rights (a slight problem in a lot of islamic regimes). And most importand: every violent protest loses its legitimacy! The iran is heating up the tensions Quick Translation: "Merkel sees her self as Hitler" A leading member of the iran has compared germanys kanzler Angela Merkel with Adolf Hitler. The comunicationchief of the republican guard, Massud Dschasajeri, said: "In her childisch dreams she sees her self as Adolf Hitler and thinks she can rule the world." "You can't expect anything different from people with a zionist past." ...so daft no one here even comments it....nor burn down anything.

Oha...I did not want to say that YOU have a peanut for a brain.... it should mean that "you" (someone) must have one, telling the things the imam said.... What puzzels me is that "Al Fader"-Newspaper in Kairo printed the cartoons on 17.10.05... during ramadan. Without ONE reaction of the muslim comunity. So how offencive can they be EDIT: Well, not what i read before.....but still HIS own opinion und totaly legitimate.

That was the intention of the newspaper...i had an english version some where... where did you get that from? The conection between the articel the pic was postet with and the drawing itself is different!

OMG...please stop tearing the "man with a bomb on his head" - picture (i don't want to offend any one by reposting the image or even calling the name... ) out of the article it was posted with. Every brainless maniac can take a picture, tell a story to it and say it's an offence to something (as the "man dressed like a pig picture"..i hope you know what i mean). The PROPAGANDA publisched by the nazis has nothing to do with an articel about the rolle the muslim holy book and their prophet has in terror and the justification of it. Come on, do you know so littel about the text that came with the cartoon or the meaning of it? The nazi publishing you refere to was linked with the repression, chase and eventualy murder of a religious group. So if i take your point further, you say exactly the same **** as an imam in denmark did..."the muslims in denmark are being repressed and the islam hunted" I think you must have a peanut for a brain to tell the word that a democratic staate is bad, where a newspaper criticised the way terrorists use the islam and the spiritual-leaders of it not doing anything against it,....that was exactly what this imam did. So please don't copy him by takeing two pictures out of their contend and equaling them .... i bet i can do that with your last holiday pics and a nazi propaganda-picture No muslim in denmark has to wear a star or isn't allowed to run a buisness....which was already the case in the germany you compare denmark to. You can't take a free press and compare it to a censored, staate controlled fanatic press like it was in the "3rd reich"....or is now in the iran!!!! If it is your opinion, fair enough (freedom of speech, i won't burn down your house ).......but this would disapiont me. We're all a little more educated, aren't we!? EDIT: I wrote before that i have a lot of muslim neighbours and got on well with them. We had a nice barbecue last summer in our street and really had fun (lots of pork left over for me )....but in some cases they tend to get a littel to wound up. During london bombing i hat a simpathy-sticker on my postboy...for about a day, until s.o. had torn it to bits. Same now... i think if i would stick a denmark-flag on my car, it would be scrap a day later. Even if these are only actions by a few residents (what i doubt, 'cos they all think and talk the same about the situation), the rest just covers them...the rat in the postboy down the lane is just one of a few examples. As a responsible and peaceloving german citizen they should rather stand to the "grundgesetz" (basic law) than to violent actions they support verbal.

...just seen it myself... does this one fit in there then? -> http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cfcartoon0oz.jpg Or is that offencive, too? I mean maybe some guy at cnn is claiming his rights in now? France is very carfull about comments now (think of the riots they had...and the majority involved in them)....and here there are more and more politicians taking the head down and trying to awoid a comment.

Hoping that Islam endorses human rights is like hoping that Microsoft makes Windows compatible with Linux. lol...good one...but sadly very true (as even the last idiot should notice by now) Mrs. Avalon right here...i've learned that the most people reacting hostile to the cartoons here have no idea what happend. Some even belive this crap about burning the koran in denmark (nazi style on public places). My personal favorite is Ayatollah "fairy-tale Ali" Khamenei's version: The cartoons are only an israeli reaction, 'cos they are angry about the elections favoring Hamas.... Well, thanks Ali for make us aware of the new israeli time machine...Cartoons (sep 05 vs elections jan 06) I would like to learn how reaction are in the us or israel...public opinions not those of the leaders (i can read them via internet)...

Right, you can only discuss thing you know. But be prepared to be amazed...i was Just add up calls for violence or murder in the religios books....and then compare But even so, religion should not be more importand than the basic rules and laws of human rights! Or ask Salman Rushdi or Souad (germ titel of the book "Bei lebendigem Leib") .... It is sad that something that is intended to give the people peace, faith and something to live up to is so often the couse of killing... I think to human rights bill would be the best religion!

x2....just didn't want to say it. Maybe it was wrong to post an image that is offencive to some people...but on the other side so are some comercials with to much sex in them ...or a bumpersticker with a f-finger on....as long as there is a sensible talk there is no problem. But this is what isn't happening...radicals led the way in some countries and the only way of changing this is to remove them. Correct me if I'm wrong..but i haven't heard better options here. The point here is respect for each other...yes. But as we respect a lot of rules other religions have (e.g. you'll always find a vegetarion or non pigmeat meal in german barracks, mosques are allowed to have the calls for praying same as churches have bells...) i demand some respect for our way of living. We have a strickt borderline betwen religion and state....and as one of the bases of our state is freedom of speech, i demand respect in this case! Every man and his donkey kann make up his own religion and make all sorts of rules here if he wants to....as long as there is no interfearing with the basic laws of our society. I would only wish for some decent signal that this is accepted....no "But" at all....the basic laws stand above any religios rules...that would be a signal from the european muslims.

DL'ed all before 2O'clock... removed the D7. Great work, wachtmeester. Always wanted to try to shoot down jets with a fokker.... looking forward to your D7

Expected a reaction like this sooner or later (was a provocation towards it, i must admit)... Here lies the dilemma... by my standarts it is not offensive and not insulting anybody at all. So chosing it was my free will. As there has been a sensible, moderate complain here now, i will remove it. That's all it takes when you are among civilized, educated humans....no need of force. This is the civilized way of solving a conflict... If i would have acted like an extremist and tried to force my opinion throught, then there would have been no option, then getting the forces in (admins) to make me remove it...get what i wanted to say So, what if the muslim comunity had not take the street of violence and made a sensible, moderate complain? They wouldn't have lost my simpathy...which they totaly have now....thats my point. Some people and states have a lot to learn

Interesting points. We all know that the war against the Iraq wasn't the unselfish act to bring deocracy to the people there, as some governments want us to believe....i think we're not that daft. But on the other side i would like to hear a nother solution to the problems. As you all think the actions taken by the western comunity are wrong, what is IYO the best way do deal with this situation or the ones before? Not bringing down Saddam MIGHT have ended in an "1000-year-lasting-Iraqi-Empire"-atempt by Saddam Hit...errm..Hussein. I do think it is most annoying that the west stood still so long and watched him....all the news about contracts and money making as a war benefit (and part of it's reason) don't really please me. But what other answer was there? What about A-Stan? A nother regime gone (well...mainly)... should we have talked to the taliban more or what? With which results? There is simply no way of deescalation when you deal with extemists. Just study history a littel and you'll see what i mean. Of course the western actions have driven more extremists into the arms of terror and maybe even made the "creation" of them easy, but the potential is there and has been there before. How whould you want to change that? "The people turning terrorists can only be pleased by giving them what they want"...just listen to them and tell me you would let them do what the want. And don't trie to tell me that the islamic extremists whould rest if the west wouldn't look further than thier own borders....come on...:rolleyes: Second problem is that IMO a larger part of the muslims then we thougt has those extrem islamic opinions....like i posted before i find it rather shocking to see that "friendly neighbours" don't exept our principles of a democratic staate at all (maybe a individual case...but still makes me think). I've spend the last day lookink at a lot of "german islamic comunity"-forums and find it sad, to read lots of radical, violent posts and only very, very few deescalation or moderate thoughts. Could post a minimum of 30 links to forums with post calling to bring down our press freedom by violence (and i'm only speeking of GERMAN forums ). If the west dosn't continue stopping the worst terrorists and staats backing them, sooner or later thier influence will spreed more and more...with a result i don't want to see at all. I would really like to know how you think we should cope with these extremists and those staates supporting them! Telling us the actions taken up to now where wrong is just to easy...convince me of a better answer to terror